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Hello All,
1990 245DL non-ABS. I'm at least the 3rd owner, and probably the first to take an interest in the brakes. In the middle of my first brake job, so far I've replaced the front rotors, pads, calipers and hoses, removed rear pads, installed new pads in LR, waiting on RR pending responses to this post. I've hit a couple of snags:
Snag #1: LF caliper won't bleed from the top or inside bleeder screw. Confirmed fluid runs all the way to where the lines meet the caliper. Outside bleeds quite well, projectile style, as does the entire RF, LR also. Using Motive Power Bleeder, ~23psi. Left it pressurized with the LF top bleeder open, giving patience a try. Gravity bled everything before hooking up the reman'd calipers. Both bleeder screws in question are clear, poked each bleeder hole in caliper with paper clip on the chance there was an obstruction. No joy so far. Thoughts?
Snag #2: Installing new pads in rear, RR inside piston won't compress. I don't have the best of tools on hand for that task, but suffice to say what worked on 3 of them (channel lock pliers, minimal force, done with bleeder open) won't budge this one. Had helper push on pedal as I watched for movement, neither piston in that caliper moved, but I also haven't properly bled everything yet(see above). Anything I can try before I have to remove the caliper?
I should also mention that either the booster or the check valve is no good, I get a whoosh along with the pedal sinking halfway down as I start the motor. I have parts for that, when I get there. Just throwing all my facts out to be thorough, also I read somewhere that some folks start the motor and use the booster to help speed things up.
Thanks in advance!
Frank
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All too often, reman front calipers are reassembled wrong, with one of the two halves upside down. There are two small dimples on one end, one on each half, and they're supposed to be assembled so that the dimples are side by side. If you find one side with a dimple on one end, and the other with the dimple on the opposite side, you've got one of the bad ones -- just return it, because you'll never get the air out.
By the way, you're doing the right thing by using the Motive positive pressure system -- stay away from the vacuum methods (e.g., MityVac).
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I knew I forgot to mention something! I checked them both before putting them on (and just now), both have the dimples on the bottom for both halves. Do the symptoms otherwise indicate a mismatch, with the top and inside bleeders not bleeding?
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Ken and Art, thank you for your responses. I will be sure to post the eventual resolution.
Art, I did fully remove each of the bleeder screws in question poked each opening to clear debris (freshly re-manufactured calipers here), with no result, not so much as a drip. I agree with your observation, the one line being productive beyond the non productive bleeder, and the two being on separate lines. I did take care not to reverse the lines going into the caliper - would it make any difference at this point?
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If you poked around, it should have cleared debris blocking the exit. How about pushing the piston in with bleeder open/removed and pressure on? If piston pushes out instead of fluid coming out of bleeder then there is still a block at the bleeder.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.
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pistons remain all the way in even after stepping on the pedal a few times. Just called FCP and I'm going to exchange it. Chalk that one up to bad reman caliper.
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Still would love to know how that could happen. It smacks of a double fault, something clogging two separate bleeder drillings, which seems quite unlikely. Once you send it back, it may remain forever a mystery.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction."
-Albert Einstein
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I'd like to know also, but I'd also like to know the feeling of getting this done before the snow flies. I will make an effort to examine things more closely when I pull the caliper in question off the car.
Art, I was poking around your site and found the caliper dissection page - can you tell me how far I should be able to get a spray straw into the bleeder hole? I'm seeming to get only to the bottom of the bleeder hole, but no further. Does the inlet branch off at an angle? Right now it feels like the holes go nowhere, like they were never fully drilled.
FM
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I checked. Both bleeder holes on the left inner go straight in. A straw starts bending after it is 1-1/2" past the rim of the bleeder's bore on the very top screw. It continues easily around the bend in the outer half.
On the one in the middle, the straw goes in 3/4" and stops, but at that point it is exposed to the piston.
Now I wonder if the reman process includes putting a new bleeder valve seat in, and drilling through it was forgotten. That would explain everything, especially if you could not push a pick more than 1/2" into the bleeder hole. So many times the seats are buggered, so it would make sense for someone in the reman process to drill, tap, plug, and replace those valve seats. Haven't seen it before though. Just a guess.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
By the time a man is wise enough to watch his step, he's too old to go anywhere.
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Hey Art!
Thanks for checking that out. I managed to pull the caliper in question off today, and sure enough the holes for the non functional bleeders are not drilled. Add that to the list of inspection items for reman calipers. If I can make it visible on camera I'll post a picture. The bleeder screws themselves look slightly different from stock - haven't measured them yet.
More news as soon as my caliper purchasing luck changes - thinking of getting some reman calipers on the internet? Read on...
After receiving the wrong side as a replacement, the next one to arrive was the correct side but for the older, non-vented rotors, evidenced by the fact that once it's installed I can't spin my new (brembo) rotor. It also has an extra piece in-between the halves, perhaps to "update" it... but not entirely. Bentley mentions CALIPER shims... but my trusted mechanic recommended against shimming the caliper OR drilling the requisite holes in the other one, so round and round we go.... I've got 5 calipers to ship back now - 2 cores and 3 duds. The good news (besides the fact that I'm now an ACE caliper installer) is that my internet supplier (Groton) is picking up the return shipping for my mountain of calipers. The least they could do.
Just today I discovered a local supplier, but they can't take the older one in as a core for a newer one - which I understand. Heck, at least they can tell the difference, unlike some people. Moral of the story with heavy core returns I suppose... keep it local if you can. Along the way I've been mumbling that I'd pay twice as much for CORRECT parts that WORK. Had I have gone local first it would have cost more initially but I'd be rolling now. Sigh. Maybe before xmas.
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I agree, one more thing to check out when they hit the counter. That is, of course, if there's a counter involved. I've bought them before from FCP and kept them on the shelf while procrastinating a project, and only by luck (I see) have they been satisfactory rebuilds. It gets tough to return things you've kept in a box for a year or so.
Since then, I've gone to get them locally, and yes they are a bit more, but I think not much more by the time one factors in shipping both ways. And what good it does to look at them in the store is dubious, because they never have more than one set in stock anyway, so you'd wind up driving around.
Taking good photographs down a hole is a challenge.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
"My parents didn't want to move to Florida, but they turned sixty and that's the law." (Jerry Seinfeld)
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Hello,
I would drill out the bleeder ports carefully. It could likely be done with a hand drill.
Goatman
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Finally got the right part and installed it - Groton refunded me for the bad/wrong calipers and I purchased one locally. Now it's time to question the MC in another thread.... thanks all for the advice!
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I did take care not to reverse the lines going into the caliper - would it make any difference at this point?
Can't think of any reason it would, if I've clearly understood which bleeders are clogged -- both of the bleeders on the inner half of the left caliper.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
If your dog is fat, you aren't getting enough exercise. -Unknown
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You read me right - both bleeders on the inner half of the LF caliper.
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