"I think most people agree that the normally aspirated B230's power is "just adequate""

depends how u tune them i guess, my bro's will go off the dial...


"I know your opinions with a 17 year old behind a turbo and Kick, if I didn't trust my son in a T, he wouldn't be driving one. Driving with him, whenever possible, he knows when to use the extra HP and when not to."

Great, its a genralization of course, - but genrally inexperience, power and testorone can make a lethal combination..go ask a paramedic who attends car accidents...

"I can't think of a much better car to put my, I repeat, MY 17 year old into. "

I thouroughly agree - apart from the turbo bit, but like you say your child isnt typical...

I didnt, i said stupid idiots did - beware the black swan falasy!

If you want to know what i was talking about go look at turbo bricks with all the pics of 17 yo's doing 'burn outs etc...'

As to the insurance rating i can only go on what i know which is over here most insurance companies wont insure a turbo for under 25yo - not expensive - WONT and they count Group 17 which is porsche 911 teritory...

But then again maybe thats a reflection of the fact that our roads are busy and twisty and you get almost NO automatics here..

Sorry you took offense it wasnt ment..of course some 17' yo's are very good drivers - just 9 times out of 10 when i find some idiot hanging 6 feet off my rear end in a little tin can on icy roads...thats about the age they are...