Hello brickboard.com forum,

I'd like to know what ya'll think is the best way to set the valve/ignition timing when replacing a broken timing belt on a B230F engine...

I have attempted to install the new belt twice now. Here are details of the steps I took in each fruitless attempt:

1. Lined up the dimples on the cam- and intermediate sprokets with the marks on the timing cover identified by my Haynes manual. Temporarily reinstalled lower timing cover and crankshaft pulley (sans bolt), set no. 1 piston to TDC by turning the pulley until its notch lined up with the "0" mark on the lower timing cover. Noticed that the position of the distributor rotor button indicated that ignition timing was advanced--the button was turned perhaps 10 or 12 degrees past the little notch in the distributor housing that (I believe) indicates what should've been its position... Scratched head dumbly, decided to install new T-belt, lower timing cover, crank pulley (w/ bolt), crank 'er up and see what happened. What happened was a lot of sputtering and shaking, about 3 seconds of rough idle, and then nothing.

2. Did everything the same, except ignition timing, which I set by lining the rotor button up with the aforementioned notch on the distributor housing. This time it sputters and shakes, but does not start at all...

What the hell is going on here? Even if the ignition timing is still a little off, shouldn't the damn car at least be able to start? How out of adjustment does ignition (or valve, though I don't think that's the problem) timing have to be to screw everything up like this? I'm damn certain that the valve timing is correct...but then, the crank pulley does have a bit of play before the pulley and bolt are installed...

Thanks,

-David

"Temporarily reinstalled lower timing cover and crankshaft pulley (sans bolt), set no. 1 piston to TDC by turning the pulley until its notch lined up with the "0" mark on the lower timing cover."

Your problem could be that your pulley is going bad & needs to be replaced. If it is slipping you wont be able to time it this way. With the lower cover & pulley off you will see a timing mark on the crank sprocket. Use this as a timing reference instead.

Hope this helps!
Danny Mac

By removing the no. 1 spark plug, inserting a screwdriver through it and observing its motion as the engine is turned by hand, I convinced myself that the mark on the pulley is accurate... If it is off, it could only be by the slightest degree.

I used the pulley & lower timing cover marks to set the no. 1 piston because I was able to turn the crankshaft easily by grasping the pulley, thanks to its greater diameter. The crank sproket doesn't really give an 147-lb weakling like myself much leverage to work with, and is harder to grab ahold of besides. Though I suppose I could attach the pullet bolt without the pulley, and turn the crank with a ratchet...

-David

Are you saying that, with intermediate sprocket mark lined up, the rotor is NOT aligned with the notch in the distributor body?

If so, maybe the previous belt-replacer goofed and got the intermediate sprocket off a tooth or two and "recovered" by repositioning the distributor. If so, you can correct it the same way...

With belt on, Crank and Cam at 0° tcd, reposition the distributor so the rotor points at the notch. Then hand crank it thru 1 rev to verify that all 3 (C&C + Dist) are still aligned at 0°tdc. If so, it should work, IMO.
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.

>Are you saying that, with intermediate sprocket mark lined up, the rotor is NOT aligned with the notch >in the distributor body?

That is what I'm saying.

>If so, maybe the previous belt-replacer goofed and got the intermediate sprocket off a tooth or two >and "recovered" by repositioning the distributor. If so, you can correct it the same way...

I think that is the case... but should that even matter? As long as the rotor button points at the notch when the cam and crank are at 0°, it should be able to start.

>With belt on, Crank and Cam at 0° tcd, reposition the distributor so the rotor points at the notch. >Then hand crank it thru 1 rev to verify that all 3 (C&C + Dist) are still aligned at 0°tdc. If so, it should >work, IMO.

That's all I can think to do, but I can't convince myself that it will change anything...

Thanks,

-David

"I think that is the case... but should that even matter? As long as the rotor button points at the notch when the cam and crank are at 0°, it should be able to start.

Right. That's what I'm suggesting. But in your 1st post, you said the rotor was past the notch, with cam and crank at 0°, didn't you? (see excerpt below)

"Temporarily. . . set no. 1 piston to TDC by turning the pulley until its notch lined up with the "0" mark on the lower timing cover. Noticed that the position of the distributor rotor button indicated that ignition timing was advanced--the button was turned perhaps 10 or 12 degrees past the little notch..."

If that's the case (and cam & crank agree at 0°), just loosen the distributor hold-down and adjust it till the rotor centerline also points at the 0° reference notch.

Forgive me if I've confused the issue. I'll back off for now.
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.

Your advice is dead-on w/r/t my first attempted installation. However, I think you overlooked this part of my original message:

"2. Did everything the same, except ignition timing, which I set by lining the rotor button up with the aforementioned notch on the distributor housing. This time it sputters and shakes, but does not start at all...:"

So the second time I installed the belt, I ignored the mark on the intermediate shaft sproket completely and just set the timing by pointing the rotor button at the notch. I should have instead adjusted the distributor as you suggested--that would have been more methodical--but my thought process was clouded by frustration at the time.

Unless any new info or suggestions come to light before I get around to it, I will remove the belt again and line everything up properly, adjusting the distributor as per your suggestion, and see what happens...

Something I forgot to mention earlier: When diagnosing the broken timing belt, I noticed that the distributor cap and rotor were rather old, and attempted to replace them. The cap was a piece of cake (and yes, I am absolutely certain I have the new cap wired correctly), but the rotor button, which (since my less-than-trusty Haynes manual doesn't say otherwise) I assume should slide right off the shaft, refuses to budge... So now I have some bonus questions: is there some trick to removing the rotor button? And does my lack of success removing it indicate a problem with the distributor?

Thanks, Bruce et al. I appreciate every moment you all have spent puzzling this out with me.

-David

Those rotors can be a PITA to remove, due to rust on the dist shaft. Not a likely place for rust but it sure happens.

Have a new rotor on hand, because you may have to crack the old one to get it off. Use anti-sieze or grease on the new one.
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.

Remove camshaft gear and check the pin that locates cam gear to camshaft and see if it is still in one piece. It can shear and screw thing up. FAQs has section on this problem. Good luck,rcs

The cam seems fine, the valves open and close. I can tell this by feeling the compression build up and thenrelease as I turn the engine by hand, or by simply removing the oil fill cap and watching the camshaft turn.

Thanks, though.

-David

Sure sounds like you are doing everything right.

After putting the belt on I would make one full crank around with the engine and check the marks again. Tightening the Tensioner sometimes shifts the Cam back a tooth. The engine should still start though.

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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me

i'm sure this sounds dumb, but how do i tell when the notch on the pulley is lined up with TDC? the markings on my timing plate are vague. there are 4 notches: first notch followed by the number 2, another followed by the number 0, another no number, and the last again no number.

It's the last notch. furthest to the Right if you are looking at the Timing Cover. The '0' is really 10 degrees (I believe).
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me