What makes the do it yourself person different from the pay someone else person? When I tell friends all the mechanical work I have performed on
my "87" 240 dl they give me a puzzled almost irritated look and inevitably say
why don't you just pay someone to do that. They seem to take a pride in their
dependence. Pathetic I say. Assuming I have the time, tools and the desire to
study the manuals to figure out how to solve my car issues I do it myself.
I could pay someone but what would I get out of it ....... an inflated bill,
lighter wallet. But if I struggle with the problem myself there is a sense of
accomplishment and self confidence. Any body else have any encounters with these helpless SHEEPLE?

Well, I wish I could work on my Inge from Sveeeeden, but I can't. I live in the city, in an apartment, and don't have leisurely access to a garage. I have work done on her whenever my measly dollars allow. If I HAD a yard of my own and the tools, I probably would do alot of the work myself. Sooo, please don't lump me in your generalized version of sheeple, aight?
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The only love there is ... is the love we make ...

What makes the do it yourself person different from the pay someone else person?

LOTS to say about this one but I'll see what tripe I can get in before the masses find me out..

The motivation for me to work on my vehicles is primarily $$$ savings. It's hard to stomach leaving my car with a mechanic who may find creative ways to reduce my dispensible cash resources (DCR).

Some folks definitely have mechanical ability but the desire is lacking. In this case, if possible, it's better to do what you are good at (hopefully job) and then pay someone else to do something they are good at.

I am actually enjoying working on cars less and less but I will do it for savings, as previously mentioned, and for the satisfaction of saving money and accomplishing a project. It's very rewarding to overcome a seemingly impossible mechanical problem.

These days there's someone who can do everything else for you if you want to pay for it. I think my grandparents learned to do much on their own as driven by economics--they just couldn't afford to have people fix things for them.

--
Norm Cook Vancouver BC; 1989 745T 204,000KM

I won't go any further, and stand behind your motives.
I only don't have the money to donate to the machanical thief. And at the same time, I am learning more about my old Volvo, and desire only to mve up a couple of years on my next one to learn more about it.
Whilst still being broke. I am sure, when I get older, I will no longer laugh at folks whom have never even, changed their oil.
But people like that don't even bother to check oil, tire psi, or other fluids. Just take it in, and let someone who they don't even know, tell them how to donate to the thief.
I hate being a pesimast ?, but I love knowing my car more than someone who has never been in it. That's like giving my wife to another man, while I wait for him to tell me how it feels, and then I pay him.

Ahh, nice work when you can get it.

You can't be good at everything, and a little humility goes a long way. My shop rate is $60.00 an hour. The fellow who designed and maintains my website charges $15.00 an hour. Am I going to learn HTML or whatever it is called, and learn to do it myself? No. I will work on cars and carbs, and pay him to do the website. So when a lawyer wants me to fix his car am I going to tell him he should learn to fix it himself? No - he will go away and make his $300.00 an hour doing photocopies or something, and pay me my $60.00 and we are both happy. Same thing, role reversal.
One more thing. There are lots of very skilled technicians out there. There are lots of skilled guys working in the backyard on their cars in their spare time. And there is a lot of scary work going on. My point is that generalizations about either group are unfair.

"why don't you just pay someone to do that"
It's pretty funny, After all the years I've been fixing other peoples cars... I still hear that mantra from my mother :-)
I had a few years in my life where I had a job where I had more money than time and had to pay an *expert* Jeep shop to work on my old Jeep truck, A while later I had to go back and re-do everything that the bozos had screwed up.
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-------Robert, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '86 740 GLE turbo diesel, '82 Mercedes 300SD for sale

Tell me about it. In my lifetime, the average american male has gone downhill from a guy who could build some or most of a house and work on his own car, to a goofball with a golfball who watches idiots play sports on TV. Pitiful.

Wow! You hit that nail on the head!
I'm amazed every time I meet guys who I *think* would be technically minded, in some cases people I work with in this paper mill, and they turn out to have NO skills, NO tech savvy, hell, not even any TOOLS! They borrow my adjustable wrenches and use them for hammers!

I work with someone who, shortly after I met him, took his 6 yr old F150 in for brake work at the dealer. $1100 worth of brakes on the most common vehicle in the country??!?!?!? Are you NUTS? How could you even possibly spend that much on truck brakes? I thought European cars were supposed to be the expensive ones. Why would you NOT figure out how to do that work yourself? And honestly, how hard can F150 brakes BE? They build 800-900,000 of these stupid trucks a year, they can't be that hard to figure out.

My grandfather just decided to move to an apartment, from the house he built 52 years ago on the edge of the old family farm in upstate NY. He's in his 80's and still splits his own wood. Quite a change for him- this apartment has "annoying" central air and a dishwasher (still unused, I think). This man built almost the entire house himself, including the plumbing and electricals, all the while tending his own land, fixing his own tractors and cars, and probably helping every person in town with their own house, farm, and equipment. Really, the type of guy who knew how to do almost anything with acceptable skill.

I'd like to think I know how to do a lot of different things, from computers to car repair. There are many fields I don't know about but I can get by in many areas. A lot of my friends seem to be amazed that I can do certain things or that I work on my own cars. I can't remember NOT working on my own things, be it cars, bikes, computers, anything mechanical or electrical. I think EVERYONE should be exposed to as many aspects of technical trades as possible. But damn few are. Most people seem to rely on other people to get anything technical done for them, and there are a seemingly smaller number of people who know how to DO anything.

Hopefully this forum educates a lot of people in the workings of their cars and gives them the skills and background needed to complete a project or a simple repair at least.

(climbs down off soapbox...)
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Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: Roterande Fläkt Och Drivremmar!

What Paper Company do you work for?
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90 744ti, Airbox, K/N, Cold air, G-Valve, Dual boost control, VDO, Modified exhaust. 88 745 gle, 99 Camry

Maybe it's now an age thing, as Rob and others seem to suggest. But when I look back, I've always been a "fixer". Most likely because my Dad and several uncles were fixers. I think they instilled the motivation for as much self-reliance as possible.

I'm nothing with electronics, and stumble along here with a few html tags, but cars have been a constant in my life. Fixing something makes me feel good—it's that simple. And so far I've been able to limit my dealer/tech visits to 2 or 3, as far as basic car maintenance goes (I don't do AC, except for parts replacement).

I'm in my 70's now, and too old to change. (Also too old to cope with anything newer than mid-90's RWD Volvos.) My rite of passage into Codgerdom was the V8 (see pic), which I did solo (except for paint) 9 years ago.

P.S. The DIY money saved is good too.


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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.

Maybe for some it's acquired somehow from their dads, but not for me.

My dad really doesn't like mechanical work. He used to sand and paint his wood and fiberglass sailboats, and made some very nice furniture in his early married years. But I think that was about it. Nowadays, even the toilet seat screws in his house are loose. He usually can't relate to whatever mechanical fixit job I take on.

Ive done lots of the work on our 240's - brakes, some exhaust stuff, "tuneups", flame-trap stuff, seat rebuilds, shocks and rear spring replacement, etc., and even ball joints sometimes. I let a real mechanic do the heavy stuff that needs more serious tools or knowledge (hello there, Aye Roll).

As a kid, I was always in awe of the guy who would fix our car, refrigerator, or the plumbing, or whatever. I found I could maintain and fix or improve my bike, and enjoyed taking it apart and getting greasy hands. I also found pleasure in doing simple maintenance around our home - fuses, etc, as an older kid. Go figure!

I think that some people enjoy this work, and others don't. I'm sure there are some that would enjoy it with a bit of encouragement and instruction, and likewise, there are some who do it for pay but who would be happier in another line of work. That's life.

For me, a lot of the enjoyment of owning a 240 (though not "Volvos" in general, especially because of the newer FWD's) is an opportunity to work on car that is so easy to do so (ventilation fan motor excepted). Although I've owned Volvos since 1973, I've owned M-B's (tried "them" when Volvo came out with its first FWD 850, and because they did that), and they're too much work and sometimes require too specialized a set of tools, so the three I've owned have been reduced to just one (1984 Gelaendewagen, just because I always wanted one and because it's good for towing my boats). I'm sticking with 240's for all other driving for as long as I can -- maintenance and repair is, for me, half the fun. I take pride in doing the job right, and more than occasionally better than "techs" nowadays, some of whom (the younger ones) were never even trained on how to work on a 240!
So like I wrote in the subject line, there are "car guys/gals" and there are others -- obviously, they people you hand around with aren't!
Regards, all.

Here's why I do my own work when I can:

Satifaction received.
Money saved.
Totally honest work.
Sometimes a better job done.
It's hard to find a mechanic who will treat my car as well as I do. I know they are out there, they're just hard to locate.
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Thanks everyone for all the help, Doug C. 81 242 Brick Off Blocks, turbo bars and wheels, M46; 86 244, B230, 150k , auto.

I think that what is essential about most people who frequent the brickboard is our sense of being able to solve problems ourselve. I personally resist the tendency of being coralled into an economic fleesing mechinism designed to overly domesticate people for the sake of the benefiting a few. What is phoenix talking about....you might say, I am here to talk about volvos. I'll stop well i am probably talking to my self anyway. But I'll end with this If Henry David Thoreau lived in our times he would be a volvo owner.

"Is their anybody out there." PinkFloyd

I've been a DIYer since my first car, a non-running Pinto purchased at a yard sale for $100. After dragging it to my house, my uncle took the wheels and tires home with him. He told me to call him when I had it running, and he'd inspect it and return my rolling stock. 2 days later, I was driving the car.

I have better things to do with my money than waste it paying someone else to install parts I could buy cheaper for myself. There are exceptions, however. If I have an automatic transmission that needs internal work, I'll take it to a shop. Sometimes I farm out electrical diagnosis. Still, I can easily take care of 95% of whatever comes up.

The best reason I have for doing my own work is that there isn't a shop in town that'll touch a Volvo. A couple of the local mechanics have openly called me crazy for driving my 240. That's also what they told me when I drove my MG and Triumph.

I'm just tight. I've got 2 kids, a stay at home wife and a mortgage. Everything I do myself allows me to spend money on fun stuff. However it is sad how dependent some people have become on others for basic tasks, back in the day most people had to do everything they could to their cars to save money. If I had money I'd farm out all the crap work and have a couple of fun project cars. Any project cars I have now better be able to haul kids and groceries.

Well, you know they have to say something to make themselves feel better about paying through the nose to get taken advantage of. On the other hand, if I had lots of money AND could find a reliable shop AND it was nearby AND they had the expertise to work on my older cars, THEN maybe I wouldn't feel so bad about letting someone else do it. Last time I took the '83 to a nearby shop that specializes in European cars for a tune-up, it was returned with oil gushing out around the valve cover.

There are things that I simply can't do myself, but if I can take the part off and take it to a machine shop, I think I'm more likely to get the job done right and at a reasonable price.

I like your choice of "keywords," by the way.

I also liked Jim's response, reminded me of a relative who spoke of raising three daughters, but I was horrified that he went on to say that he had never touched a diaper, but then that's another kind of DIY story, isn't it?


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'81 GLT 245 @ 259K; '83 DL 175K

I have to say that I've touched many, many diapers. Now we help care for a grand daughter and her parents use Pampers. I'm a little uneasy about the effect on th eenvironment but these diapers are SOOO easy!

At least you don't use much water or electricity (or detergent) maintaining
the pampers. I suspect it is close to a breakeven if you don't consider the
initial cost.

BTW the guy who has never even TOUCHED a diaper has not raised kids. He may
have had some supervisory role.....
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George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!

Brickboarders are clearly "hands on" type of people in more ways than one!

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'81 GLT 245 @ 259K; '83 DL 175K

There are many reasons for both DIY and EOE. Some reasons make good sense and some not. For example I am a DIY for the following:

1. Cost savings (I raised 6 kids and had to do my own repairs at first)
2. The good feeling I get when I've solved and fixed a problem
3. I believe that the more I know about and the more I am working on my cars, the better chance I'll have of finding problems before they get bad. A preventative approach.
4. When there is something beyond my abilities and I have to take the car to a shop, I'll be a better informed customer and less likely to accept poor repairs or diagnoses.

On the other hand the EOE folks may:
1. Not have time to do their own repairs
2. Simply not be interested, they do other things with their time.
3. Not have a "mechanical ability". I've known some very intelligent people who couldn't seem to figure out which end of wrench to use.
4. Who have bought into a belief that only very highly trained technicians can work on cars. (For some car systems this is true)
I wouldn't call these folks SHEEPLE, we're all different.

There may be a bit of a snob factor where owners brag about taking their car into a shop and telling them to fix whatever needs fixing. I'll bet the shop owners love them! I've run into this on some forums for high end cars, e.g., Mercedes, Jaguar. There are a few on those forums who almost brag about how much they spend on their cars. Most of the folks are more like those of us on this forum.

Sheeple yeah maybe I was a bit harsh.
Hey, I was wandering whether or not the increasing complexity of automobiles not only adds comforts to the extreme but improves the bottom line of auto makers. The more complexity and one would assume the more specialized/ expensive tools you need
to purchase to diagnose car problems. This creates a barrier to the garage mechanic which inturn pushes him or her more often into the clutches of those high priced repair shops. New cars are getting so complexed that you need a PHD to work on it not to mention the sticker shock. I'll be happy with a 240
volvo any day.

I certainly agree about the complexity of new cars discouraging DIY. Apparently some are so computerized that repairs can't be done without some sort of download which is only available from the dealer. I've read that the newer Volvos are like this. I, too, will stick with cars that I can hope to work on as long as I can.

my 88 BMW 3 seies is so very easy to work on and maintain, that it makes me wonder why others spend so much on Nissans etc., and look totally dumbfounded when I tell them i drive a BMW, AND that I do all my own maintenance on it.

I'd like a Volvo, just cause their so easy to work on in comparison to my bmw, but I still kinda think that these old cars just aren't practicle enough to drive over the next few years, taking into consideration the exponentially increasing gas prices. I mean an early 80's Canadian model Volvo 240dl (SU carb)burns easily as much fuel as a Mustang GT with a 302 V8 engine!