|
|
Sages,
I'm in the middle of huge project in my front suspension, steering rack, and a/c.
While I have the rack out to be replaced I noticed that the bottom of my compressor is just soaked in oil. So when I put it all back together I want the compressor out and I want to run the power steering pump off of the crank until I've determined if the power steering pump is leaking or not, therefore I need to know what is the correct belt sized to run the power steering pump off of the crank pulley.
Thanks in advance,
Matt
|
|
-
|
|
|
All,
After much thought on this subject and since I'm going to rebuild an a/c compressor in the near future I decided to put in the car a compressor that I most likely will not rebuild, therefore eliminating the need to move the power steering pump forward.
All is now back together and all I need now is a front end alignment.
Now onto my Saturn's power steering pump. Ugh! It just never ends.
Matt
|
|
-
|
|
|
Sages,
Ok, I keep finding out more information about all of this.
Here is a new link that I just found that shows how to push the power steering pump forward as Art suggests.
https://rennieash.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/volvo-240-air-con-bypass-run-power-steering-direct-from-front-crank-pulley/
I'll give it a try later this week as I'm done for the year from a work perspective, so I should be able to get this done in about a day or less.
I'll let you all know how I fair.
Later,
Matt
|
|
-
|
|
|
I've seen that link and considering doing that... I see the weak link as trusting the NBW hardware, which would have to be high grade.
The real option is the factory bypass kit. Cheap to find for 88 and earlier, expensive for 89 +. (I may not have the years right).
Here are the Volvo part numbers of the late factory bypass. About $183 from Tasca last I checked.
AC Delete
1336941 Bracket W/O A.C $57.77
985191 Flange screw W/O A.C $3.43
1346520 Attaching arm, front W/O A.C $10.84
1346519 Attaching arm, rear W/O A.C $9.41
1346149 Tensioning arm W/O A.C $17.98
955306 Hexagon screw M8x80 W/O A.C $0.86
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hey man,
I never figured out whether you have a B23 or a B230. If the latter, what's worked well for us is spacing the entire PS pump bracket out about 15mm with longer bolts and spacers from the hardware store. Then running a belt directly from PS pump to the frontmost crank pulley. That way you don't effect the two alt belts. As Art says, you'll pay the price sooner or later for doing that.
The belt size is tricky because the pump brakcet wasn't meant to take up slack in that direction. Adjustment is over a really small range. Basically if the belt goes on easily, it won't get tight enough. You have to roll on a slightly small belt. So far, we've found about 400mm +/- 5mm to be the best compromise, but you'll still curse getting it on unless you're a particularly pious man.
Make sense? If not, ping me for photos.
Best,
joe b
pdx or
|
|
-
|
|
|
jbroach,
I have a B230F and I see what you are saying.
I can look into to that, should not be a problem, and the belt I already have should fit as well.
So how does only using one belt affect the alternator? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Thanks,
Matt
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hey Matt,
Sorry for the delay. In rainy Portland winters, it was a constant dance to keep the single-belt tension at the magic tightness to prevent horrible squeal/slipping. With two belts, it's been set and forget. Plus, spacing out the PS pump is super easy/cheap with common hardware store bits. I'll try to attach a pic or two of the setup on R's 93 wagon.
And...I finally hit on the perfect belt! A 15-405 went on today with no tools or cursing and tensioned up perfectly. I'd tried 13-400 & 15-395 (both work, tight fit so you have to "roll" it on and off), and 15-415 (wouldn't tension). I mean, I'd rather just have AC, but...
Best,
joe b
pdx or
|
|
-
|
|
|
I'm not an engineer--or ever played one on TV--but my take on twin belts in any application is -- they provides more "power transfer surface" with the least amount of tension on any involved bearings. -- Dave
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hey Dave, there's logic there, but 940s run a single belt to the alternator... And run a 100 amp unit for the cooling fan, so it is even more crucial than in a 240. So if it were important to Volvo engineers to keep the twin belt system I think it would have been in the 940 also.
???
|
|
-
|
|
|
I get what you're saying Bert but the 100 amp alternator is physically larger than the 55-70 amp units and may have more robust bearings(?). A single belt and pulleys are less expensive to manufacture. I recall my $10 1960 Plymouth Valiant slant six had a single alternator belt -- but our 1964 Dodge Carryall 318 V8 had double -- maybe a failsafe strategy as well. -- Dave
|
|
-
|
|
|
Belt size:
Dayco
15485
11A1230
It looks about right, but I have not tried it yet.
Looking at my B23 lower timing belt cover, the protrusion with the timing marks on it may need to be cut back... Wouldn't know until I got there. B230 may be different (no timing guide).
Pick up a couple of belts to keep one onboard, as it may not be an easy belt to find on the road.
...and for sure replace the urethane mounts on the power steering pump bracket when you install the belt for better alignment.
And I'd be very curious to hear how the belt works out, as I may try it in the Spring.
Otherwise, as you may know, there is the factory AC delete kit.
Good luck.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Mr. Nabisco,
I'm finally getting around to answering you on the proper belt size needed to route your power steering pump while the compressor is out. So here it goes:
I measured only three really viable routing possiblities. There is one additional one, but it did not involve the crank so I did not include it.
1. Route around crank and power steering pulley. Belt size is ~39"
Possible interference on plastic piece that you use to advance or retard timing
I was able to find a belt at vbelts4less.com that was close to 39" and its number is 3VX400. I bought two just in case the first one fails before I get the a/c compressor rebuilt and reinstalled.
2. Route around crank, water pump, and power steering pulley. Belt size is ~44"
definite interference on the plug that allows access to tensioner bolt
Again, checking vbelts4less.com, I could not find one even close to 44" so I abandoned this approach
3. Route around Crank, alternator, water pump (over), and power steering pulley. Belt size is ~48.5"
Well with this approach the belt you suggested, the Dayco 15485, should have fit just fine. Well, not so much. I bought it tonight as I wasn't happy with how the number 1 configuration was rubbing against the timing advance marks, and well there was no way that this belt was going to fit. Even had I slackened the power steering pump as much as possible there was no way in hell this was going to roll on the pulley.
Any ways, here are some photo's of what I wound up doing tonight before it got too stinking cold to continue.
Here you can see the engine running with the belts attached.
Here's another view of attachment. I've lost a small amount of the plastic by it rubbing, but I believe that a small price to pay just to get it finally road worthy.
Final picture, pretty much same as the second one.
So there you have it, go with the first choice and you know it will work as I've gotten it to work on mine. I need to back off the tightness just a bit, but I was able to roll this belt on while spinning the crank with my 24mm socket. Like I said there was no way I was doing that with the Dayco belt.
Thoughts any one?
Enjoy,
Matt
|
|
-
|
|
"Thoughts any one?"
Yes. I think you'll later learn you'd sacrifice power assisted steering for reliable alternator drive.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Thought for the day: Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.
|
|
-
|
|
|
"I think you'll later learn you'd sacrifice power assisted steering for reliable alternator drive."
940s have a single belt to the alternator and run a 100 amp alternator for the electric fan.
???
|
|
-
|
|
|
Art,
Your probably right, however this is not my daily driver, I just need it to be on the road so that I can get the front end aligned.
Currently I have six cars. Five here and my son has my 89' with him at college which will be getting some much needed work when he returns.
Of the other five, I only have two really road worthy. With this one up and running I'll at least have a back up.
My normal daily driver is a 94' Saturn SL2, however upon changing the oil this weekend I noticed that I had power steering fluid leaking all over the place. I'll get to that this week, but right now I need to get this guy on the road so like I said, I at least have a backup. It just never ends. At least I enjoy it.
Thanks for your reply.
Matt
|
|
-
-
|
|
|
Art,
So two questions...
1. When are you available? (This gives me an excuse to finally meet you), and
2. What is the factory default for camber, i.e. where should the struts sit in there respective holes?
I ask Q2 as I noticed that when I put the new struts back in to there originally marked location that they were at different locations. I'd like to set them to default factory setting if I could before hand.
Also, will you method work on Virgo's as well as steel rims?
Thanks in advance,
Matt
|
|
-
|
|
|
Questions...
(1) I have no answer for this one. Above my pay grade.
(2) I think you're asking where the strut mount appears when the car is new. Don't know the answer to that either, but I can tell you the camber, as measured, will be different between cars having the same setting as viewed from the position of the studs in the slotted holes of the strut tower. There are a lot of factors from control arm bushing wear to bolt hole slop, and perhaps even differences in body welds.
(3) The rim makes no difference. The alignment is referenced to the axle through the wheel mounting studs (3) and the plate is calibrated perpendicular by spinning the wheel unloaded.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Somebody posted about this and suggested a belt size... I got the belt but have not tried it yet. It is stashed in my car. Will go find it and report size.
|
|
-
|
|
|
MrNabisco,
Thank you so much!
I've been swamped with work that I've had very little time to get back to this.
Hopefully this weekend I get back to it before it just to darn cold out.
I'm going to measure as well, but with a piece of wire as a string will stretch while your trying to figure out what the size should be. I'm also going to take two measurements with the power steering pump in its min and max positions and I'll compare those measurements to your size and go from there.
Thanks again!
Matt
|
|
-
|
|
|
As was mentioned, measure it yourself, buy a cheap belt from a chain store (often they will exchange the wrong size if you do not damage it).
Once you are sure that it works, buy a good quality one - consider replacing the other belt at the same time. You will now have spares.
I used to need new belts for my snow blower every season, we often have deep, wet snow - I bought a pair of Dayco belts from an industrial supplier, and they have lasted for 6 years now. This is pretty good for belts that act as clutches.
|
|
-
|
|
|
"I used to need new belts for my snow blower every season, we often have deep, wet snow - I bought a pair of Dayco belts from an industrial supplier, and they have lasted for 6 years now. This is pretty good for belts that act as clutches. "
I also became a frequent consumer of belts used in the drive of a off-brand lawn tractor. Sometimes two or three per season. The farm store had the best deal, but the size was difficult to spec using part numbers. I fashioned two pulleys on a stick, one of them moveable, with a scale penciled on the stick. I brought the stick along to the store.
The stick scale eventually became littered with notes showing where what part numbers lined up when the test belt was stretched on the pulleys. Never thought of string.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
What engineers say and what they mean by it:
"Risk is high, but acceptable."
100 to 1 odds, or with 10 times the budget and 10 times the manpower, we may have a 50/50 chance.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Seen this question before and most answers involve using a string. I would just cut the old belt and wrap it then you see what size. Just take inconsideration how much adjustment your power steering pump has. Then size accordingly.
--
Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
|
|
|
|
|
