new battery, new alternator, new alternator belt, new starter, new crank position sensor, new fuel pump relay, shiny battery terminals.

(there doesn't appear to be a radio noise suppressor plugged into the relay board behind my ashtray, that I can id anyway. If I have one, and this is the problem, any help locating it?)

symptom: turn the key, 2 strong cranks, no start, dead. Turn it again, 2 strong cranks, no start, dead. 3rd/4th time, it usually starts. Getting plenty of juice before I try to start (lights, horn, interior lights, radio), and when I turn the key, I hear the fuel pump getting power.

Once started, perfect idle at 800 rpm, and runs and accelerates smoothly.

frustrated. I thought the cps solved the problem, and did for a week, but now what? Thanks in advance. Sorry to be a pest.

Hello Steve,

I think there are still some unseen problems in the electrical connections of the car that needs to be sorted out.

To sum it up - looks like the starting circuits i.e batteries, alternator, the ignition switch, the power cables and the ecu are fully juiced up and powered.

Other circuits to consider are the fuel and spark circuits. If the electrical connections are poor in these circuits the engine may crank but all the while it starves off power from the spark and fuel circuits - thus a difficult start. Volvo parts are quite robust - only its electrical connections are the ones that usually fails. Mostly its due to age and corrosion.


For the sparking circuit:
Ensure the distributor cap is clean inside. Spray the insides with WD40 then wipe it off later to clean it. Pull out (a bit) the centre carbon point inside the distributor cap to ensure proper contact with the rotor.
Ensure all plug cables are tightly connected at the distributor cap and at the plugs.
Ensure all plug bodies (the white porcelain part) are fairly clean with no carbon or oil tracings.
Remove all plugs. Ensure there are no excess carbon on the centre electrode. Replace if centre electrode is badly carbonised. Also ensure that they are all correctly gapped (0.7mm).
Ensure the high voltage cable at the ignition coil is firmly in place and also on the distributor cap.
Clean the ignition coil electrical connections. Repeatedly pull out and re-insert the spade connectors to clean them.
Replace the ignition cables (plus the coil's high voltage cable) if more than 3 years old especially if car is driven daily. For Bougicord cable replacement ensure that Class F is printed on each cable (withstands high heat better).


For the fuel circuit:
Check the injector grounding wires (two of them) on the fuel rail at the intake manifold. Clean and retighten if necessary. If you have soldering equipment, solder the wires to their connection (disconnect battery first).
Check and clean each fuel injector's electrical connection.
Replace the FI relay (ok..done that).
If possible go under the car, disconnect and clean the fuel pump connections. Reconnect back.
It is also helpful to pull out each fuse, inspect for contact corrosions, clean them and reinsert back.
Find the radio suppression relay (RSR) (a big black relay about double the height of a normal relay) usually at the fender side inside the engine compartment. Could be at the left or right side, depends on car model and its home market. Disconnect the relay and clean its contacts. Reconnect back.


If time is limited check the sparking circuit first. It is more critical than the fuel circuit as it carries high voltage and easily prone to faults.

Sorry for the details...hope these solves the problem.

amarin.

Amarin....geez, thanks for all the info, in such and organized manner....you took a lot of time....thanks...

I'm stumped actually....I've done most of what all are recommending, and same problem starting.

Just cause it was time, Mem Day weekend, I did the water pump, timing belt, tensioner, and main crank pulley (harmonic pulley....the big ass one that drives all the acces belts, ya know). I was hoping maybe the harm pulley might have been the issue since this starting problem began 3 days after I replaced the alternator...maybe the new, tighter alt belt was putting too much load on the pulley and causing a problem. Nope. But the pulley was shot anyway, cause it just began to separate and started screaming...so it needed to be replaced.

Anyway, after I did all this, I was hoping for a clean start...but no. Once she does, she idles at 750, dead still, pulls through her gears beautifully, and runs like an absolute swedish watch...I mean it. I've never gone > 2000 miles before an oil change (castrol 10/30 from day one), so I'm really getting frustrated.

I replaced the starter and solenoid after the alternator....it was done by the mechanic during a NYS inspection....I'm starting to wonder if he screwed up the install....It's bolted tight to the block, but I'm wondering if he made the correct elect connections....

I'm gonna stop in and ask him to check...he'll throw a fit, but so what...people make mistakes...

If it's good, I'm gonna try changing the ignition switch I suppose....it looks like a rough job, removing the dash, etc, but I don't know what else to do.

At the FCP site, the picture of the ignition switch isn't too descriptive....at the risk of sounding like an idiot, is this the mechanism the key goes into?

for what it's worth, the past year or so, the fit of the key into the ignition has been sloppy....in fact, I could leave the car running, and slide out the key (if I needed to get in the house and let the car warm up....)

but that just seems like the pins in the lock...could it indicate a bad switch.....

I've checked as many connections as I can think of....I did a simple tune up in Nov: plugs, wires, coil wire, rotor, cap, filters...and when I did the fuel filter, I was careful to notice the wires to the fuel pump...everything looked good....(I believe that's the fuel pump, yes? It sits next to the filter on that "shelf" under the driver side....)

I would like to change the batter cable, but I have an old alarm that's wired in, that I haven't used in years...but I'm afraid to start pulling wires that might really jam me up....the big read positive cable has a few extra wires on it I guess for the alarm....

On a separate note, I bought the tool to hold the crank pulley (5284) cause sticking rope in a cylinder just don't seem kosher....the tool is golden, and looks like it came off a bank vault....

if you or any of the fella's that have been kind enough to help me in the thread....Spook, or Alley Cat, even Jerry (although he yelled at me ' ), I'd be happy to share it....I could mail it parcel post for a few bucks, and maybe we could pass it around for timing belt changes....the way it's built, it looks like it'll only go 600 changes before the paint even chips....it works so great, and makes the timing belt change so much easier and less nerve racking...

So don't be shoving rope in the pots fellas....I'd be happy to share this tool with all....you'll see how much easier it makes the job....

thanks, again to everyone, and I'm determined to get this starting problem fixed cause I swear this car has a soul...I won't be able to part with her.
: D Once running, she just purrs....

Dear steve long island,

Hope you're well. If the ignition lock cylinder is so worn, that you can remove the key without turning it, the lock cylinder needs to be replaced. If you want to avoid re-keying the doors and trunk/rear hatch, etc., you'll need to order a replacement ignition lock cylinder from a Volvo dealer. If you supply your car's Vehicle Identification Number (VIN), the dealer should be able to provide a replacement cylinder, keyed to match the other locks.

That amount of "slop" in the lock cylinder suggests that a large key bunch has hung from the ignition lock. The weight of such a key bunch - over thousands of miles, turns, etc. - would have worn-down the metal at the lock cylinder's opening.

To the back of the lock cylinder housing, the ignition switch is attached. I recall posts that reported engine cut-out, in turns, etc., as a key bunch swung to one side or the other.

In short, it is entirely possible that the ignition switch also has failed, and that failure makes the car hard to start.

To see if lock cylinder/switch failure is the cause of hard starting, detach the ignition key from any keyring. Hold the key so that its axis aligns perfectly with the lock cylinder's axis. Push the key into the lock and turn the key to start the engine. If the engine starts smoothly, that's fine.

Switch-off the engine and remove the key. Insert the key, with the key's axis angled slightly (up / down or right / left), relative to the lock cylinder's opening. Try to start the engine. If the engine does not start, remove the key. Re-insert the key, so that its axis aligns perfectly with the lock cylinder's axis. If the car starts smoothly, you've found the problem.

By trying to start the car, with the key at different angles relative to the lock cylinder's axis, you should be able to find one position for the key, that produces reliable starts. If so, a worn-out lock cylinder - or ignition switch - is the problem.

Hope this helps.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

alright, got the ignition switch....2 pretty hard screws to get to....ordered a new one....I doubt it's gonna be the solution....this one just feels too good still. We'll see.

for anyone doing an ignition switch, it's easy accessing it.....The panel beneath the dash comes off with a few torx, there's a bolster kind of thing that slips right out, and then a metal plate with I think 6 bolts that comes out easily. Then you'll see spaghetti city, and the ignition switch and its connection.

BUT....don't attempt this without a shorty single blade screwdriver...the stubbier the better....there is a cross member in the way of the screw on the right side of the switch....the screw on the left side is actually ok to get to...mostly by feel. They're machined screws so be patient backing them out....and then unplug the female piece on the harness, and the ig switch is out.....

but remember, common head, shorty screw driver...else you'll be cursing it.

Dear steve long island,

Hope you're well. What did your tests show? That is, when you inserted the key at different angles, did that affect the start-up? If not, then the ignition switch may be just fine.

Thank you for the tip about removing the ignition switch.

I'd add only that before working on the switch, it is good practice to remove the negative battery cable clamp from the negative battery terminal. This cuts power to everything, and so prevent short-circuits, should a tool contact an exposed wire contact.

I await your report.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

sort of did Spook...used different key (Valet), on and off the key chain, jiggled it...maybe my desperate imagination, but it did start normally once when jiggling...so I'll know in a day or two when I replace it...thanks....but the ignition switch I took out (finally), certainly looked ok.... : \, so we'll see.

...and yes, neg terminal disconnected when working on anything electrical...thanks for the good reminder and heads up....I even wrap the neg cable in a clean dry rag so it doesn't touch anything....electricity is not to be taken for granted....

Anxious for the new part to arrive....running out of ideas....

thanks for the help Spook....will let you know asap....fingers crossed ! D

92 940T 2.3L
249k

Dear steve long island,

Hope you're well. The next test - once the engine is running - is to jiggle the key. If the engine cuts-out, that means the ignition switch has worn out. I think, though, that the problem may be the contact between the cylinder and the electrical module - at the rear of the lock cylinder - rather than the electrical module itself.

Hope this helps.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

nope....not the ignit switch...replaced, same starting issue....and it's twice the pain in the neck installing it, as it was removing it. The 2 screws that secure it aren't captive, they angle down, there's no room to work, ya can't see...ugh....

something a little tacky (stick 'em, etc) is needed to hold the screws in their holes, while you try to screw them back in, on the blind...what a pain in the a** job that was...and to no avail.....


running out of ideas....guess I'm heading to the dealer.....still have an instinct it's the coil, even though others have said no. I guess I'll find out.

turn the key, fuel pump powered, all lights on (strong), 2 normal cranks, then nothing...frustrating.....

if anyone can use, a used ignition switch that probably is fine, for a 940, they can have what I took out...save themselves 80 bucks...doubt I need a backup.

the starter was not correctly installed/and not correctly assembled at rebuild. Which one of you fellas did advise somewhere in this thread! Yes.

Finally took it to my local Volvo dealer today and it cost me a couple hundred dollars to find out the new starter which was put in back in March, had a loose stud on the solenoid which was preventing it from making proper contact when turning the key.

To anyone replacing a starter: check to see that the stud on the solenoid is tight before you even bolt the starter to the block....(if the work is being done by a mechanic, point it out to him as well..)

What can ya say...first work I've had done on my car by a mechanic, and it was done wrong....So there's the answer to people that ask why spend so much time researching, reading, participating in these forums, and spending weekends under the hood instead of out on the golf course.

My NYS inspection came due when the starter crapped out, so it seemed logical to have the mechanic install it, while the car was on the lift getting inspected. Had he not rushed thru the job, he would have seen the loose stud when he was turning the bolt (they were both turning and shouldn't have been)...it needed to be double wrenched.

Today they called me out to the garage and pointed this out to me, and it became plain as day....two wrenches were needed......frustrating.....first and last time this neighborhood guy does anything more than a state inspection...

thanks to everyone for their help here. This was my first time in this forum. I'd like to try to help others by looking for folks that have problems I can perhaps help with.....

for now...remember to double check rebuilt starters to be sure the stud on the solenoid is not flopping around loose before it goes on the car...and remind your mechanic if he's doing the work....save a lot of dough and frustration.

if anyone that helped me on this forum wants to borrow the special tool to hold the harmonic balance pulley when changing a timing belt, let me know....as long as you promise to mail it back (parcel post should be like 5 bucks....better than buying it for 50) I'd be happy to....it really works like a charm...forget about stuffing rope in the cylinder.....

thank you too all. I hope I can help others down the road....oh, and by the way, avoid changing the ignition switch at all costs...make that your last resort....what a terrible job considering it's 2 screws....

SLI
92 940T
246k

Dear steve long island,

Hope you're well. Your suggestion as to checking the starter solenoid stud should go into the site's FAQs. If that is done, your insights will be available to all.

Hope this helps.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

sure...if I knew how to, I would....save someone all the bs I went thru.

Dear steve long island,

Hope you're well. See the FAQ intro page (tab at upper left of the page, where this post begins) for the proper way to add an insight to the FAQs.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

Forgive me if this has already been covered--I admit I have not read the entire thread. The FI temp sensor has everything to do with the start-up mixture. If that part has not been changed it would be worth the effort. I am referring to the temp sensor in the head under the intake manifold with two wires attached--not the single wire sensor for the temp gauge. My '92 940 Turbo was a horror to start till I figured it out--the new sensor made all the difference. -- Dave (Long Island too)

ok Dave...I might as well swap it out...at this point I'm in for the duration anyway.....

the people up in Groton are having a pretty good year I bet : DDD

two wires...I'll look...it sounds easy to identify......easy change?

it looks like a post with two spade connectors on it...about 17 bucks...air intake temp sensor .... sound like it.

I'll match it up to what comes off....so thanks Dave. As spook says, after 22 years the part doesn't owe me a dime....and if it means not getting stuck, 20 bucks is worth it....

the engine just runs so tight, I gotta keep it goin'....

I'm on the east end Dave....north side. Bought mine at Karp....used to live very near there many years ago.....

92, 940T (chrome grill)....haven't seen another like it.

steve

"it looks like a post with two spade connectors on it...about 17 bucks...air intake temp sensor .... sound like it."
NOT an air intake temp sensor. It is for the coolant temp and should have a plastic block wire connector like all the other fuel injection wire connectors. It screws into the head near where the temp gage sensor is installed (one wire with blade connector). Do the job with the engine cold and leave the cap on the expansion tank--you'll only lose a few drops of coolant--no need to drain the system.
I live in Bay Shore -- grew up in Valley Stream. --- Dave

Yes, it's the rearward one of the two sensors, about under #3 intake runner. It's difficult but possible to swap it without pulling back the intake mani.

But still, if the motor does the two turns and quit thing, this cannot be it I think. I have read several reports recently about bad rebuilt starters.

I agree with some others.
With a known good battery and having your starting problems, I would look at a faulty starter or a problem with the wiring.

I once put a new Alternator in a car and the new Alternator was faulty, it's rare that a new part fails, but it can happen.

I once had a 1962 Dodge Dart that I picked up and drove across Canada, from Vancouver to Toronto. It was a standard and I had to push start it all the time.
After the trip, I discovered the fault was in the ignition switch.

I don't know if this can happen with Volvo, but check to make sure your Ground straps from the engine to Firewall are good and engine to frame.

I suspect the big red wire from the battery to the starter is corroded under the engine at the front. Suggest you replace it with a new one and I'll bet your starts will speed up. I did this with my old 86 740 and it made a huge difference in how quick it started. Now it is usually one crank and VOILA!
el Raidman

ok, thanks, I'll try it. And post back.

steve....
You need to describe better exactly what happens when you try to start the engine.

You say "two strong cranks, no start, dead"....turn it again, repeat, again repeat, next time...start.

The way you describe it sounds like the battery is weak, although you say it has a new one....plus a new starter.

If you are trying to start and the engine makes two strong revolutions and then nothing, repeat 2 strong revolutions and nothing with the battery apparently remaining fully charged, it sounds like you are losing start voltage to the starter motor or to the starter solenoid, and the way you describe it sounds like it's a loose connection that's causing a a voltage drop.

If you are losing power to the starter motor, I would suspect a loose or corroded connection on the battery positive terminal or on the big red wire at the starter motor itself.

If you are losing the start circuit to the starter solenoid, I would suspect the ignition switch or the start inhibitor switch on the transmission shifter.
I would clean and tighten all of these connections, including the positive battery connection to the solenoid at the starter.

Turn the headlights on and have someone watch them whe you are cranking the car.
If the engine makes the "two strong cranks" as you say and then the headlights go dim and the starter stops turning the engine, you have a weak battery or a loose (likely) positive battery cable.

If the engine makes the "two strong cranks" and then stops and the headlights remain brightly lit, you are losing crank voltage to the starter solenoid.
This points to the igniton switch or the start inhibitor switch...or the wiring circuit through each.

hope this helps
steve

ps...I don't think that it's causing your problem but the radio suppresion relay for your car is located under the hood on the right fender near the shock tower.

ok, thank you. Based on your input, it doesn't sound like the batt, because everything stays lit when starting the car...and the lights do not dim at all.

When I replaced the starter, I also replaced the solenoid along with it. Maybe I got a bad one...it was rebuilt. I dunno....

: (

if I can locate the starter inhibitor switch, I'll replace it...I have no idea where that is.

thank you.

Sorry about the family issue, I spoke too hastily.

Putting several comments in one post;
The rsr is located where I mentioned above, however it is not related to the starting problem. At least you know where it is.
The coil is not related to the starting problem.
You had mentioned that 'the lights stay on when starting', several times. You said these were the dash lights, but at one point you say the headlights stay bright when starting, and this two turn and quit thing happens. Are you sure that's correct, about the headlights?

IMO, you have a bad starter or wiring to it though. All other effort is wasted til those are eliminated.

it sounds like a normal start. Strong, not weak like with a dead batt, the engine turns 2 times, then nothing. When I release the key from the start to run position, all the dash lights remain fully lit. Turn the key to start again gives me 2 normal revolutions of the engine, but no start. It just completely stops.

3rd attempt usually starts the car. The headlights burn normally and do NOT dim when I turn them on and start the car.

Jiggling the shifter and/or putting it in neutral has no affect

I don't know how else to describe it?

Sorry.

He doesn't say if it's NA or T; if T, the rsr is hidden behind wire loom on the left/driver's side inner fender, approx over the battery and near the power stage.

It's frustrating to read threads like this, when we ask questions and get no answers. If as you and I have said, the engine turns only briefly til the next time the key is turned, rsr, coil, etc etc, are not part of that issue.

It's still really interesting, for the Volvo to only allow two revolutions of the starter, and then cut power to it. Since the behavior is so regular and not intermittent, it just seems really bizarre that corrosion to a connector could do that. I have the greenbook wiring diagram for the 94 940t, might be a little different.

yes it is a turbo.

thanks for helping locate the rsr....I'll look for it....the others responding to this string seem to feel it couldn't be that.

didn't mean to frustrate you. Had to leave town suddenly for a death in the family. : (

thanks for taking the time to help me. I hope I can return the favor someday.

sorry for lack of response. Was out of town. Illness in the family.

Lights do NOT dim when on and starting car....
Will check again for loose connections and will clean all possible.
Will stop replacing parts as instructed
Will try to get a hold of a new coil and swap it out

I will try to replace the ignition switch. It seems like the most likely thing at this point.

Didn't mean to ignore anyone...and I thank you all for your time and responses.

Steve,

You present a vexing problem. I wish you well. My advice is to stop focusing on replacing parts. Clean as many connections and grounds as possible. Wires can fail inside so you can't see the fault. Learn some basic electric testing. You would also benefit from collecting parts. maybe you can get a end-of-life 940. Even a 240 from 1989 contains most of the parts you need.

That being said, I wonder if it isn't the coil. Swap out your known good one

--
89 240 wagon, 94 940, 200K, 94 940, 135K

ok....thank you....will try.

http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1562143/220/240/260/280/1993_wagon_difficult_start_solved.html

what is condition/age of distributor cap and rotor
--
'90 245 285k, '93 945 296k

replaced 6 mos ago when I did basic tune up...along with coil wire, and plugs and plug wires. Is it possible when the alternator went (after the tune up), it damaged the rotor or cap?

I thought of that but it seemed too easy.

doubtful,

what exactly do you mean when you say "2 strong cranks" I'm assuming you mean the engine cranks and cranks and cranks but wont fire up?

you may want to pull the cap and rotor and make sure it isn't wet in there. Its been dreadful cold and damp here in the midwest and I've had an occasion where my 240 wouldn't start but I pulled the cap and dried it out with a rag and it started right up.

--
'90 245 285k, '93 945 296k

it cranks like when you normally start a car....2 times, but then just stops completely. ya know, "ruh, ruh..." then nothing.

I'll pull the cap and see....what about the coil or that ignition amplifier people are talking about....on my 940, it's bolted inside the driver side fender above the batt....

I'll pull the cap meanwhile....frustrating cause the car runs like a champ once started....

It sounds like you are saying that the motor makes one or two revolutions and quits, then you turn the key again and it does the same thing, only making one or two revolutions and stopping completely, then often on the third try the car starts, and once started it runs fine.

To me, this is a battery, wiring, or starter problem, and has nothing to do with the parts of the motor that affect only running

brand new battery and starter and starter solenoid....what about that ignition amplifier or coil?

Could it be the radio noise suppressor, and if so, where the heck is it? : D

" ignition amplifier or coil? Could it be the radio noise suppressor, "
None of these parts will give the starter two turns then nothing.
Neutral safety switch bad?
Ignition switch?

Next time no start. Jumper the starter. That will bypass the neutral safety switch and ignition switch.
--
Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.

I don't know how to jump the starter....sorry. But thanks for eliminating the other stuff....you sound sure it can't be those things....maybe I'll try replacing the neutral safety switch???

next time it stops cranking: try jiggling the shifter and / or the jiggling the key in the ignition. something is goofy with the starting circuit.

http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/?dir=
--
'90 245 285k, '93 945 296k

Try starting the car in neutral instead of park.

When attempting to start watch the warning lamps on your dash. When they starter quits and you release the key from the start position back to the run position, are the dash lamps lit? If yes, then something is interrupting current to the starter solenoid circuit. A bad ignition switch, neutral safety or solenoid could be the problem. If no, then you are losing power to the entire electrical system. I would double check your grounds for corrosion or loose connections.

yes, the dash lights all stay fully lit....