Hello,

Well, I'm stumped! I've just spent the last day and a half trying to diagnose a problem with my 83 245. I just finished putting in a strong B230F engine I had to replace my old worn out B23. Yeah, I know the B23 is a stronger motor but this particular one was pretty well shot.

Anyway, so I have a B230 engine from 87 245 - LH 2.2. This engine is from another car that was rusted completely out but ran very well. I figured this would not be a hard swap at all, especially if I just set it up with the LH 2.0 system that was in the 83. After reading a few posts, I decided maybe I should try keeping the LH 2.2 system with the engine. So I tried...

I basically just threw the engine in with the 2.2 harnesses and all, everything from the 87. I ran into a few problems right off. Also, after looking at everything, I decided the harnesses were not in very good condition anymore. So I decided to pull it all out and put in the harnesses from the 83 (these were bought new about 7 years ago and still in very good condition) and for the time being just set it up as the LH 2.0.

So, here's where I am. Everything is in and I get no spark and no fuel pumps. I have a fair amount of spare parts and have tried swapping out nearly everything with no success. Any ideas???

This is not the first time I have pulled engines and replaced wire harnesses, etc. I think that's partly what stumps me so much. As far as I know I have hooked everything back up exactly as it was. Oh, and by the way, I swapped out my Chrysler ignition parts for Bosch parts on my B23 about 6 years ago and never had an issue there. I currently do not have an a/c compressor in the car and thus the wire going to the compressor is not attached to anything. I can't imagine this matters. So... I'm not sure what else to check. No fuses blown, ignition coil and the blue wire to the ignition control box get 12V with the key "on," as well as the blue/red wire to the ECU and fuel pump relay(s) near the ECU.

If anyone has any thoughts please let me know. I have a feeling it's something very simple but I'm about at wits' end!

Thanks in advance.

P.S. Thanks also to lucid and Goatman for replys on my previous post a few days ago.

Well, I FINALLY figured out what was going on. Turns out that the shielded wire that runs from the #1 terminal on the ignition coil to the control unit and FI computer had a problem. Right at the connecter at the coil, the shielding was peaking out of the insulation just a bit and was actually touching the main wire. I found this when checking continuity of wires from one end to another, &c, &c, with a multi-meter. The main wire I believe went in one branch to pin #1 on the FI Computer and the shielding itself went to pin #5. I noticed it by seeing continuity bewteen pin #1 and ground. I then checked continuity between pins #1 and #5 and showed a near perfect 0 Ω. Then upon inspection of the wires found the problem!

Ha! What a stupid thing! I taped up the wires but still had no spark. I then changed out the ignition control unit with another (I have a few spare parts), turned the key, and it fired right up.

So a further update: After fixing this problem I had everything set up as LH 2.0 on the B230F engine. It ran fairly rough (just as the B23F had) but also ran quite rich. I then changed out the ECU, re-pinned the harness at the Air Mass Meter, and swapped in the AMM from the 87 (LH 2.2). I started it back up again and what a difference! The engine ran just as smooth and clean.

I wonder about it running rich. I wonder if running the LH 2.0 system with the injectors from the 87 LH 2.2 system made it run rich...? It seems to me I remember something about the injectors on the 87 engine being slightly bigger than the 85-86. Maybe the are also more so than the LH 2.0 ones?

Anyway, at this point I'm just glad to have it working again. I'll try to get some pictures up this evening. I took a few of the shielding/wire problem. And thanks again to everyone for all the help. Art, I really appreciate the diagrams.
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KG4BKD
'67 144 205k
'83 245 306k
'87 245 506k

That concept of coaxial cable has tripped up a number of backyard bricksters, there in the LH2.0 ignition, and in the oxygen sensor harness. Your user name looks like a ham call sign, so I figure you've seen coax before. What's in a name... Good job!!
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." -Frank Sinatra

Yeah, I am a ham and SHOULD be quite familiar with it! I suppose basically my hunch was right that it would be something simple...simple enough anyway. Oh well, all's well that ends well, right??

Thanks again.
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KG4BKD
'67 144 205k
'83 245 306k
'87 245 506k

Well, still no success yet. Thanks to all for the replies. I'm really not sure what exactly I'm missing but I just can't seem to get a spark. I did notice a test from the link Art posted earlier that showed removing the plug from the distributor and jumping terminals B and C, then checking for (low) voltage on A. I was not certain which terminals to jump since mine does not have A, B, or C marked, just the colors green, yellow, and black. I did not want to jump the wrong terminals and potentially damage something.

Anyway, I'm going to keep at it, hopefully in the evenings after work and then again over the weekend.

Another thought that has crossed my mind is that something else is wrong that has nothing (at lease not directly) to do with the wire harnesses I worked on or the FI/ignition components checked, like possibly some wiring/components under the dash or "before" the engine harness.

I'll keep updating with anything I find. Thanks again to all for the help.
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KG4BKD
'67 144 205k
'83 245 306k
'87 245 506k

the 83 harnesses are different than the 87s. you need wiring diagrams to figure out the problem. sounds like the ignition signal to the ecu is missing. no crank signal, no fuel pump spin. maybe dave bartons site has a work around for using the lh 2.0 harness for lh 2.2. i doubt it as the 85 ups are easier to get than the 83-84s. good luck, chuck.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, at this point (or at least as far as I know, unless I've missed something) I have the system set up exactly as it was with the 83 previously, other than the fact that the motor itself is different. I'll give his site a try--it has helped me in the past!

Thanks again.

The 83 and the 87 make spark in the same way. Identical circuits. The difference lies in the fuel system and how the fuel computer gets the spark info. In LH2.2 cars, there's an extra pin on the V/C ignition module to bring the spark timing to the fuel CU. This can be a fooler, because it requires the junction of the two harnesses (ign and fuel) under the manifold. The spark timing is on a gray wire; and an orange wire joins the TPS switch to both CU's.

But you have everything 83 now, 'cept the motor itself, right? Should be just a matter of getting it spliced back into the car's wiring under the dash (since you had it out), I'd think. You'll have to get spark first before you worry about whether the fuel ECU sees it. In LH2.0, that's a gray shielded (coaxial) wire.

Temp sensors are identical 83 and 87 - blue.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end.

this is just a shot in the dark:
when i had a no-start issue with my 83 a couple months ago, i found the engine coolant temp sensor to be the culprit. i could only get the fuel pumps to run by jumpering them.

another thing i might point to is that you have a B23 harness for a B230 engine. i'm not sure what difference that would make.
good luck

Interesting. The temperature sensor did not cross my mind. Actually, it would be the one from the 87 that is in there now. Maybe I could try swapping it. I did not think there would be a difference there and also the 87 was running before, too, but I might as well try!

Thanks for the reply.

Maybe this will help:

This is what I've done. I've swapped out the ECU with another known working one, same with the Air Mass Meter, Ignition Control Box, Ignition Coil, and Distributor, as well as the fuel pump relays. I have also put the ECU, AMM, Coil, and Ignition Box in another car and she ran just fine. I ran a jumper wire across in place of the fuel pump relay and confirmed the pumps are working, but only come on when I jump the relay.

Maybe it's also worth noting that both cars/engines (83 and 87) were running just fine (well, the 83 had shot rings but otherwise was running fine) before this.

What about the idle motor/valve? I did not think that would make a difference but maybe it could?

Thanks again.

V/C ignition?

ignition troubleshooting chart

Of course you swapped out the round plug for the rectangular when you put the Bosch distributor in, most likely, but not for sure, as I had a Bosch with a round plug and never had one of those "white cap" Chryslers.

Always stress checking power and ground first, when troubleshooting.... Sounds like you got that drilled in too!
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.

Art,

You are correct. I did swap the round plug for the rectangular one when I did the distributor swap. The distributor I swapped in was from an 84 I found in the yard and the only visible difference I see in it versus the 87 one is that the shaft is wider where the rotor button sits.

Thanks for the diagram, I will give it a go again this evening.