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Ok folks, the second baby is on the way and the wife wants me to sell the BMW coupe (her car is a Volvo 960) and buy a Volvo Wagon. Ok, fine. The BMW is worth between 4-5k, I'd like to keep my costs under 4k so that I can sink a little money into the 960 as well as sock some away in case something goes wrong with the new acquisition.
I'm seeing, on Auto Trader, a number of 850 Wagons of mid-90's vintage (1995, 1996) for under 4 grand. Some for as little as $3000. Now I understand that some of them are repossessions, which means dodgy title history. That I get. But some are clean title history, which leads me to ask:
Are these cars really just dropping in value that much, or is there something that goes wrong with 850's at 10 years old? I know next to nothing about FWD Volvos, so I need advice... would one of these turn into a maintenance nightmare? I ask because my other alternative, for similar money, is a '94 940 Wagon (Turbo or regular) and I'm thinking that the 740/940 series are uber-cheap to maintain as compared to the 960... how does the 850 stack up?
Thanks in advance!
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posted by
someone claiming to be New England Fisherman
on
Wed Aug 31 13:53 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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I had a 93 850 and drove it from 68k to 220k and was made to walk only once. (failure to replace the timing belt in a reasonable amount of time) When I donated it to the society for the blind (no kidding) and took a nice tax deduction last year, it started on the first try after sitting in the driveway untouched for two months.
The rear main seal (as with any volvo really) is the only thing you can count on going bad and a car that requires only one $1000 repair in addition to routine work is insane and really speaks for itself. I did also have one prob around 120k with a fuel relay switch which some others here did too. (Engine cuts off while driving at all speeds randomly, then turn off and back on and continue driving). Fixed it in ther parking lot of the dealership ($15) and drove off.
Good luck and hope that yours is good enough to make you a believer.
-Bri MA
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dog Hauler
on
Wed Aug 31 05:40 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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I just wanted to add something that i didn't see in the other posts. I have the 1996 n/a GLT sedan. I have to have the rear main seal replaced soon due to a progressively worsening oil leak. $795 at my indie, and he is pretty gentle on prices. I've heard it can be a common problem, usually caused by not keeping the flame trap, etc. clean (Get the Maintenance Records!!!). Also, due to some "spirited" driving on my part, my steering rack is leaking like a sieve. I don't even want to know how much it is going to cost me... However, with those things said, I think the 850 is an excellent car. I love driving it, and will keep it until it dies.
90' 240 - 202k
96' 850GLT - 135k
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KBB trade-in on mine is $4,455 (it's not for sale) and there's nothing much wrong with it.
OTOH it could have just about everything wrong with it, and it would still look exactly the same.
I would recommend the turbo, the block is stronger, the crankshaft is forged, not cast, and the exhaust valves are sodium-filled.
Caveat emptor.
-BTC
'98 V70 T5 5-speed, 163k mi, front IPD stabilizer bar, rear factory HD bar, Bilstein HD, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, e-codes, V-1, Mobil-1 since new
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." -- Douglas Adams (1952-2001)
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hmm bill...
not looking for a fight but....
unless your running the 250bhp a t5 puts out do you really thing the block/crank issue is an issue, also i understood the sodium fileld valves were to deal withthe higher exhasut temps only a turbo generates...
cant say i have seen a lot of crank/block failure posts here - also turbo's do require more maintenance (if only in cleaning out the tubes/IC TB etc)...
dont get me wrong i have owened both and the turbo is a scream, but I would say -on balance - that NA had a better chance of reaching high miles for less invested repairs (if only avoiding the 80-150k turbo replacement cycle)...
and a 2.5/20 is pretty damn quick without a turbo!
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I'd have to guess that the stronger engine pays off over the mega-mileage. Unless you're "on boost" all the time, which, unless you're Michael Schumacher, you're not.
I don't have any sort of statistical study, but visiting here over the years it seems like the NA cars have had more major mechanical complaints than the turbos. Like I said it's not statistical, and either way I'm sure the 5-banger has seen a lot fewer complaints than the inline-6 (960-NA) version of the same motor.
Also, the HP makes a lot of difference as to whether you'll still like the car after the seat bottom wears through (I'm on my second) I've had NA and LPT service loaners, and if my car weren't fun to drive, the puppy woulda gone off to auction years ago.
Would I buy another? Depends, definitely a turbo if I buy another Volvo, but in my old age I'd prefer to commute via the internet and drive a 20-year old Porsche 911 as a grocery-getter.
-BTC
'98 V70 T5 5-speed, 163k mi, front IPD stabilizer bar, rear factory HD bar, Bilstein HD, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, e-codes, V-1, Mobil-1 since new
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." -- Douglas Adams (1952-2001)
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ok points of view i guess i would have argued the other way, NA is less stressed etc...
certainly with the 2.5t its pretty much the same block - personnaly the only time i would worry about block or crank strength is WITH the turbo due to the increassed heat/stress levels (and what i would really worry about is detonation taking out a con rod through the side of the block - ouch!, no uncommon in the b230ft world!)
I guess a lot of turbo's get better maintenance than the NA's due tro the type of owner - dont know, certainly my 'seat of pants' feel from being around here is most of the autobox failures you see, and 'help my engines stuffed what should i do' posts are on t's - again i dont have evidence either! Certianly given the autobox is a bit fragile sticking all that extra power through it cant be good!
maybe you got really good t's maybe i got a bad one and a really good NA who knows...
either way i wouldnt buy one without FULL service history (including receipts not just stamps in the book - too many used car dealers have desk full of rubber stamps.....)
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read a few pages of posts in here and you will cover most of what goes wrong...
personnaly i bought a 95 with 50 some k on it, did the sensible preventative maintenance (fluids filters sparks, fitted a new cam belt etc)had it almost 40 k and about 2 years...other than routine servicing its had 2 sets of new front brakes, 1 set of new front brake calipers (sticking and they wernt expensive ...) 2 tranmission flushes (preventative) and 6 tyres (fronts about due again...)
I do fairly heavy miles and its about the best highway car I have ever owned - and fun o nthe twisty bits too (ok a c70 strutbrace helps!)
cheap to run, reliable fun comftable what more do you want...
now the bad bit - i bought with full volvo service history and checked that out well i WOULD NOT buy one without I also wouldnt buy a turbo (personal bad history with volvo turbo's and it WILL have been thrashed)
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As long as you have good maintenance records, these are great cars. Like any car they have a few problem areas, but most of the time, simple, prudent maintenance will keep them running problem free--there are posts on this board of 350-450k miles on these cars. Abuse the car and neglect maintenance and it will bite you.
My 96 850T (bought new) is the first car I have ever owned this long (my first was a 65 Mustang, bought new) and still have no intention of replacing it (107K miles). Great handling, fast, 29mpg and with this brick board, you have a lot of good info for keeping the 850 running.
--
96 850T, Bilstein HD, IPD swaybars
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Kudos for Oliver. He did a really great job highlightling the 850 big "querks". Rear spring bumpers come loose, front motor mounts fail, front shock bushings wear out, climate control temp sensors get dirty, throttle bodies need cleaning, camm sensors go bad, etc, etc, etc. You'll find a good one if you keep looking and if it's been kept up well and not abused you'll get a real bargan. Just make sure the owners teenages didn't use one to learn to drive. The "sport" tranny mode is too much tempation for a young driver.
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My 850 is a 96 GLT non-turbo with 125,000 miles that I purchased a year and a half ago for $4,300. Car was really clean in and out and dealer maintained. This is my fourth Volvo and to date I have put 20,000 miles on it and it has been no more expensive than any of my other three bricks. The 850 series is absolutely addictive to drive... As for longevity, some fellow posted here the other day that he has over 300,000 on his 850.
As with any Volvo they do love their maintenance, but all Volvo's require regular work. If you are not a do it yourselfer, be prepared to put a few of your dealers kids through college over the next few years as dealer rates are getting rather ridiculous. If you can turn a wrench and do some basic diagnostic work, you could enjoy the crap out of 850 ownership...
The few things that all 850's seem to have in common as areas of concern are:
1. ABS module will fail around 80-90K. Vic Rocha in southern California will rebuild your module for around $150. Compare that to the $1,000+ the dealer will want.
2. AC evaporator will leak. This is a $1,000 repair at an indy and way more at the dealer. Whole dash comes out for this one and a few DIY's have done but all said it was a PITA... If the AC is blowing cold you may not have a problem.
3. Ignition switch failure. The electronic portion of the ignition switch will fail over time and a whole host of electical issue will appear as it fails. Easy DIY project. $50 for the part and twenty minutes will cure.
4. Automatic transmissions on the 850 series do not have a filter, so change the fluid every 30K miles. If the fluid looks really brown and wiped out, the car will most likey have tranny problems. $$$$
I am sure that some of the other poster have things to look for, but these are the big four... Remember that it is critical that the timing belts on 850's be changed every 70,000 miles. Broke timing belt equals new engine $$$.
Try to get the lowest miles and lowest price, but remember that the maintenance records are worth a fortune, buy the car and drive the wheels of the thing....
Good luck.
Oliver
64 122S
66 1800S
86 245DL
96 850GLT
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Ok. Well I got some responses back from a couple of the people I pinged about their wagons. One place has a '96 GLT (with light turbo) in need of brakes... no big deal there... and with a busted climate control and no idea what's busted about it. Hrm. On the other hand, it's only $3000... how much can a climate control cost (hehe, silly question)?
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posted by
someone claiming to be GP Sandhoo
on
Tue Aug 30 02:08 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Think 96 did not have the light turbo, and the 96 is most likely the Grand Luxury Touring(leather trim, side airbags, nicer stereo etc.) vs the turbo. in 1997 they started calling the light turbo GLT.
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Gurm--Oliver's post about said it all. That was the nicest summary of what can wrong with your 850 that I have seen posted to date. He's right on. But there is one thing he failed to mention, and I will pick up on it here. In 95 side airbags were optional. Look down at the seat controls, and if you see a small figure with a ballon beside it, it has side airbags. From 96 on side airbags were standard. With a wife and a second child on the way, and with traffic around the US increasing exponentially, I wouldn't buy an 850 without side airbags. Side curtains Volvo started installing in 2001, with their major body change, but I don't think those are so additionally important as the ones in the side of the seat. With people flooding into the country from lands where stop signs get little or no attention (along with your native immortal teenager), getting T-boned at an intersection is a distinct possibility. Additionally, from 95 on back, you had a self diagnostic system consisting of a blinking light that you could use to read the trouble-shooting codes. From 96 on it was the OBD-2 system, which took a code reader or Alex Pepper's software and a laptop PC to read. Alex's is by far the best diagnostic system out there for the price, because you can graph and store component parts and see their decline before they fail, along with a host of other features the cheapo hand-held readers don't provide--specifically turning out the Service Light. Spend a few more bucks and get a 96 or 97, preferably a turbo, which has saved my bacon in passing several times already. More trouble to look after, but hey, when you're talking family and your own life, well worth it. Pepper's software (obd2.com will save you a lot of hair tearing regardless of which model you buy. Dick
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