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These look interesting as the tread is similar to Nokians and they are inexpensive. Has anyone out there tried them?
http://www.hankooktireusa.com/product/tire_detail.asp?pid=84
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/searchWinterTiresBySize.do?sw=true&cs=185&ar=65&rd=15
Andrew S.
'91 744
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posted by
someone claiming to be motomktg
on
Mon Oct 9 06:09 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Go to the Tire Rack web-site for comparos.
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Those look awesome - very similar to the Gislaved too.
Did you notice where they are made?
I run four studded snows on steel wheels (minus one sizing) every winter for six months. I'm interested in looking at these this winter, especially after the glowing review Hankooks got here.
My Gislaved Nordforst 3's were $69 before studding in 195/65 15 size (stock is 205/55 16). This is also a very good snowtire, and my local dealer includes balancing. They are made in Germany lately, formerly Sweden. I have gotten two full winters (late Oct. to Late April), and they might be able to go one more.
The Nokians cost 60 percent more and I cannot tell why. I have also ripped the studs out of Nokians before trying to get out of an icy hole.
To all those reading if you really want bomb-ass winter traction "minus one" your setup: go one inch smaller wheel, 10mm narrower tread and ten percent taller apsect ratio. This is not my formula, but it is the correct one IMHO.
The Hankook website (in the original post of this thread) has an excellent table to compare tire rotations per mile. Compare stock to minus one size on this chart. It should be the closest size using these guidelines.
I mention this because I frequently see people on this site buying smaller tires for the same rim, or using some other size. The goal is to preserve spedometer/odo calibration, and suspension geometry compared to the stock size.
Also, using a smaller diameter tire increases torque at the wheel, making it easier to break loose when accelerating from a stop on snow.
The previous owner of my lovely and well maintained 745t also gave me the 15 inch steels with 185/65 15 Gislaveds. I used this for one winter and I can tell you first hand the handling sucked by comparison to the 195/65 15.
Finally, using a smaller diameter tire lowers your gearing and gives you worse mileage.
If you don't "minus one" stay with stock size and buy a snow tire. This will not give quite as good snow traction, but better dry handling.
Just my humble opinion.
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I also had a set of Gislaveds on my 945T when I bought it, and I also ran them for one year. They were terrible compared to the Hankooks that replaced them.
jp
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The reason that going to a one inch smaller wheel was appropriate in your case is that you started with the optional oversized wheels. The 15" wheel is the standard 700/900 setup.
Narrowing the tire is the only step that should be taken. Just as a snow tire puts less rubber on the ground, so does a narrower body. The laws of physics state that if you put the same mass (weight) on a smaller area, the loading per square inch or MM will go up. This is the smae concept that spikes, studs and many other traction improving devices use. Conversely, snowshoes keep you from steeping into the surface by increasing your contact area and reducing the load per square inch.
Now back to the tire height... not only does shortening the tire reduce ground clearance, it INCREASES the torque at the ground contact patch - as though you used a lower first gear. You want just the opposite! Maintaining diameter or even increasing it is the more effective approach.
60 series and wider tires are way too wide to make good snow tires, in any tread pattern. Most are approximately 22-25% wider than a 75 series tire meaning only 4/5 of weight per square inch. Depending on availabilty, fitting a 70 or 75 series tire with the correct or slightly larger diameter would give the best result.
A 10MM narrowing is the right idea but amounts to only 6MM (1/4") tread difference (60 series = 60% ratio). Admittedly, it may be the largest practical change on many cars but we're talking about concepts.
The spec charts are available from every tire manufacturer, including Firestone, Good Year, Michelin... The body sizes are industry standard but tread width is model specific.
The Nokians cost more because they are a high-quality European built tire with some (allegedly) more expensive cold weather compounds. Hankooks are cheap Korean knockoffs. It's sortof like asking how the guy on a streetcorner can sell a "Rollex " so cheap.
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posted by
someone claiming to be rolex dealer
on
Sun Oct 1 08:32 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Which is wider a 185/60 14 or a 185/70 14?
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Here’s how you decipher tire sizes:
Lets take one of the aforementioned tires -- 185/60 14:
185: The width of the tread measured in centimeters
60: The height of the sidewall as a percentage of the width (measured in centimeters).
14: Of course this is the size of the rim.
So this tire is 185 cm wide.
The sidewall is 111 cm tall (185 x .60)
Hope this is of some help.
Jeff Pierce
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The 60 series tread is wider - but only slightly. The 60 series is also shorter than the 70 series, so it is probably better to compare a 185/70-14 to a 195/60-14 so that the tire heights are comparable.
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Jeff's response today gives you an explanation of how tire sizes work. Here is a chart that shows how some of the various sizes compare for a tire that is available in both of those sizes that you mentioned:
http://www.hankooktireusa.com/product/dimension_data.asp?pttn=H714%203%20Groove
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For the type and amount of driving that I am currently doing, I could not justify over $400 for the Nokians. We'll see how these "cheapies" perform...
Andrew S.
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[quote]I get them locally in Maine, and a set of four is $300 "out the door". [/quote]
tvpierce, where do you get them in Maine? Is it that time already or what? I think I need to replace my WR's before the white stuff flies, would love to know a recommended tire shop us here.
-puchscooter
-79 242 DL Automatic
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Stratham tire.
http://site.mawebcenters.com/strathamtire/contactus.html
I get mine in Auburn -- I work up there.
Their next closest shop is Portsmouth, NH. (sales tax free, too -- but not convenient for me)
I just checked my files, and it was actually $288 for a set of 4 (with studs, out the door).
Jeff Pierce
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Hi Bob:
The Hankooks are Korean. Yes, they do look great - I have them sitting in my garage waiting to be mounted on the used wheels that I picked up over the summer. I got them in the stock size for my 744 which is 185/65-15. I didn't see any 15" sizes available that were narrower with the same height. Hopefully these will work well.
Andrew S.
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Exactly, you have to do the whole minus one thing to get the narrower footprint and the same wheel/tire height.
If your stock tire is 185/65 15", the minus one would be 175/75 14", and you don't want that! Although it would pull like a donkey with crampons in snow, that's not much rubber for dry cornering.
One doesn't need to go any narrower than 185 to get excellent winter bite. The base 240's all had 185's stock, with renowned results. Just the stock size but a winter tire.
People with turbo cars have a variety of wider tire sizes, some on 15" some on 16", where the whole spiel comes into play.
Enjoy your ride!
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I have had 2 sets of Hankook snow tires on Volvos: the Zovac 401, and a "Something-or-other - 404" which appears to be discontinued judging by their web site (the tread pattern seemed to be somewhere between the 401 and the current 409). I prefer the Zovac 404 because it is non-directional. I like that for two reasons: 1) tire rotation options aren't limited to one side of the car 2) I find it advantagous to start AND stop in snow... not one or the other.
In both cases they were/are unbelievably good. The traction is outstanding and they wear well. I also do not find the noise level to be objectionable. Their price is unbeatable.
I highly recommend them.
Jeff Pierce
--
'93 945 Turbo (201K miles), '93 945 (140K miles/I maintain for a family member), '93 945 Turbo (sold w 145K miles), '92 Mercedes 190E (174K miles), '85 Jeep CJ-7 w/ Fisher plow (225K miles), '53 Willys Overland w/ Fisher plow (sold to a loving home)
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Oops... re-read my post: I meant to say prefer the Zovac 401.
Jeff Pierce
--
'93 945 Turbo (201K miles), '93 945 (140K miles/I maintain for a family member), '93 945 Turbo (sold w 145K miles), '92 Mercedes 190E (174K miles), '85 Jeep CJ-7 w/ Fisher plow (225K miles), '53 Willys Overland w/ Fisher plow (sold to a loving home)
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Hi Jeff:
Thanks for the information - I appreciate it.
Andrew S.
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Got the four W409s today - they look great! I do not like winter but I am anxious to try these babies out. If they perform well, they are a bargain at $53 a piece for size 185/65/15 from Discount Tire Direct (free shipping!)
Andrew S.
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They are indeed a bargain. I get them locally in Maine, and a set of four is $300 "out the door".
Meaning the price includes:
-sales tax (5%)
-diposal fee ($2/tire)
-mounting & balance (usually $10 - $15/tire)
Jeff Pierce
--
'93 945 Turbo (201K miles), '93 945 (140K miles/I maintain for a family member), '93 945 Turbo (sold w 145K miles), '92 Mercedes 190E (174K miles), '85 Jeep CJ-7 w/ Fisher plow (225K miles), '53 Willys Overland w/ Fisher plow (sold to a loving home)
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One more note regarding pricing: I also get them studded for that $300 "out the door" price. It's $10 per tire for studding. So it's really $260 if you were to go studless -- which I don't recommend.
jp
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