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Engine offset - where is the original drivetrain centerline?

posted by  Dragwagon on  Sat Jun 25 20:54 CST 2011
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last visit: Thu Dec 1 16:21 CST 2011
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I hope someone here can help...I was hasty in yanking the B230f and M47 out of my '87 245 so I could test fit the L33 Chevy V8. Too late to measure the crank centerline to see how much offset there was in the engine/trans. When I measure the pinion centerline on the rear diff, it comes out around 1.5" offset to the passenger side. The center support bracket centerline seems to measure out closer to an inch. Then I've read that converse and JTR mounts give a 5/8" offset. Is that right?

Does the driveshaft gradually angle to the right from front to rear? It seems to me that you'd have a driveshaft with a fair amount of angle in both the horizontal and vertical planes, which doesn't seem desirable.

Thanks for any measurements or advice!
Mike








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    posted by  someone claiming to be on  Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [RELATED]

    The SBC/SBF engine is angled that 5/8" to the right more to provide exhaust header clearance at the steering shaft than to correct the angle of the drive shaft. You will find that you do not have much/any room at the rear of the transmission to work on the drive shaft angle. Yes, drive line folks state that the total u-joint angle should not exceed 6-7 degrees for both horizontal and vertical combined. Because of the front offset and rear end offset the V8 result far exceed that figure and as many swappers have found out leads to drive line vibration.

    The simplest solution is to use the Volvo drive shaft with its extra set of u-joints. Because of the center mounted bearing you know the rear section meets Volvo engineering spects and you only have to worry about the transmission to center bearing alignment. That works only if you are going in with a pretty stock engine. Put lots more horsepower/torque up front and you going to have to go to an one piece shaft. Then the solution is a Cardan u-joint. That is a sealed double u-joint much like the CV joint used on a front wheel drive but without the boot. That is only a $30 extra cost if you have it added to your initial shaft build but lots more if you add it later to fix the vibration. Google that for plenty of information on the subject.

    I have further information and links if you would like to contact me off line.

    tporteratellijaydotcom



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      posted by  someone claiming to be on  Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [RELATED]

      Great info! Thanks!

      I may end up contacting you about this when I get to the point of actually having the driveshaft modified. It sounds like I have a green light, though, to put the engine somewhere betwen 5/8 and 1" offset to make it fit and worry about some of the driveline angles later. I guess more offset os better so I'll see where my MA5 Colorado trans ends up once I set everything in place. I'm fixing rusty floors anyway, so maybe a new driveshaft tunnel isn't out of the question! Haha...not desired, though.

      I do plan on sticking with a 2 piece driveshaft but that seems to make the front shaft only about a foot long. The power will be stock 315hp or so. Maybe a 2 piece with relocated center support further rearward? Lots to think about. Thanks again for the info!


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        posted by  someone claiming to be on  Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [RELATED]

        The engine alignment issue is to have the exhaust headers clear both the steering shaft and the right side unibody frame rail. I am using a 302 SBF which required denting the rail about 3/4" at the end of the header. Doing 'test fits' needs to include the headers. Only took me about 10 fits before I left it in place.

        Holler if I can help.



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          posted by  someone claiming to be on  Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [RELATED]

          You did not say which body this is going into, mine is an'84 760, x diesel.
          We dinged the rt.rail as well, but found that "block hugger" headers, tucking in and down sides of the the oilpan, made this a non-issue.
          Also dinged the top center of fire wall to place SBF further back.No steering issues,suggest the late small starter.We did run single 3" exhaust, with twin subtle volvo orig. style curved pipes out rear rt. corner. This was a AOD trans, one piece shaft, used orig shifter.

          This old sleeper was built in 1992, has 50K miles, no vibration or other issues. Fun car, w/ 3.73 gears and a mid-range cam that pulls from 1200 to 4500 rpm. I have put 50K miles on this one and it is the ultimate sleeper.you will love the end result. K.O. in Sunny Florida



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            posted by  someone claiming to be on  Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [RELATED]

            Wow you are the 2nd person besides me that thinks the L33 would be a sweet swap. My trusty tape measure says the stock engine in my 80' 244 sits 3/4" towards the drivers side at the front of the crank shaft.
            For exhaust the truck manifolds are not going to work without butchering the car, take a look a late model Vette manifolds. I am currently looking at the 2000 or so model year sheet-metal manifolds as they look like they really hug the block and they are much easier to modify as they are steel and not cast iron. For the cleanest LS swap ever done on a 240 take a look here. http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=222596
            I saw this car a few weeks ago and it is very clean. He said he put the engine in where it fit the best and modified cast iron Vette manifolds worked fine. NO BFH was used in this swap. He did have to add a steering rod heim joint and extend the steering shaft to get around the manifold.
            On my swap I will be using the MAST conversion oil pan as it fits with no mods to the cross-member. It's a bit pricey at ~$430 but it solves so many problems and just bolts on - done deal. I will be using a Z-spec T-5 trans in my swap and am very seriously thinking of swapping in a short stroke 4.8 crank and rods into the 5.3 aluminum block to loose the torque that could break the T-5.


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