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I have o/d issues right now.The usual stuck in 3rd gear. I have already checked the fuse and replaced the relay. This is the 2nd time and I've had enough. I've read everyones recent postings concerning the matter but I havent been able to find a posting with intructions on by-passing and how hard it is. Any help will be appreciated........70mph on third knowing there is a 4th is crazy!
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I had the same problem, in fact, I just fixed it today.
All you have to do is run a wire from the Overdrive fuse to the overdrive solenoid. If you want you can put a switch in the middle to disable overdrive when you want to.
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THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE FOR THEIR REPLIES! BUT I MUST BE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. I FOLLOWED INSTRUCTIONS CAREFULLY AND DREMELED THE CHANNEL BETWEEN THE HOLES ETC. AND STILL NOT WORKING. IS IT POSSIBLE TO INSTALL THE SOLENOID BACKWARDS? IF NOT THEN I DONT KNOW WHATS UP.....HELP!
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thanks to everybody for your help. I'll have to work my courage to do surgery on the solenoid! Thanks again!
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"I'll have to work my courage to do surgery on the solenoid!"
Let me suggest that before any solenoid surgery, you examine the undercar wire leading to the solenoid. No courage required, and the wire is often found to be the problem.
Regardless of Mr. Scott's over-the-top rant (thanks Norm), the control circuit is dead-simple (not butt-backward), and for all practical purposes is identical to the manual M46 OD he praises so highly.
Here is how the 5 OD control components work:
1) Fuse 11 supplies voltage to items #2, #3, #4, and #5
2) The Shifter button/switch turns the OD relay off and on
3) The OD relay controls the Solenoid and Upshift Arrow light (separate wires)
4) The Upshift Arrow light ON means relay and OD are OFF)
5) The Solenoid allows OD engagement when ON, which is the the "default" Power-On state)
If the Shifter switch makes the Arrow light (#4) go on and off, then items 1, 2, and 3 are OK, and the problem is most likely the undercar wire to the Solenoid (#5) or the wire connector terminal.
========>
...consider this recent reply to a "check the wiring" suggestion:
"Replaced corroded connector and length of wire with bad insulation. Working perfectly now."
He was having "intermitent" OD failures, was sure it "couldn't be wiring" (that would be "all or nothing"), and was probably on the way to a solid failure.
<======
--
Bruce Young '93 940-NA (current) 240s (one V8) 140s 122s since '63.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Charlane
on
Fri Jul 1 08:46 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Acutally, that's what I did. I was having intermittent problems with the OD and when I crawled under the car and pulled off the connector, it almost fell apart from the wiring. So, I spliced a new connector on and got out the trusty die electric grease and I have yet to see where this is going because I'm still doing wiring on this blasted B21FT Turbo, but I'm betting a lot of the pain is gone from the problem.
Charlane
-----------------------
Engineer to the Death and now going SOLAR.
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Regardless of Mr. Scott's over-the-top rant (thanks Norm), the control circuit is dead-simple (not butt-backward), and for all practical purposes is identical to the manual M46 OD he praises so highly.
I was hoping you weren't going to see this thread as I knew I'd be hearing about. ;-)
I still stand by my original assessment of the article: well-written, very informative and insightful. It's hardly an "over-the-top rant" but I did not take any personal inferences either.
For the folks who want to be done with OD permanently, he offers a good suggestion. If not it can always be fixed but that's not what guillermo was asking for.
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Norm Cook; Vancouver BC; 1989 745T 208,000KM
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My apologies Norm. I take no issue with Mr. Scott's solenoid surgery, but IMO he could have explained it without seasoning his rambling preamble with what I call "rant terms" like: snipers... abuse me... mis-named "overdrive" circuit... butt-backwards... relay-solderer's guild... rough crowd here... electrical porn... etc. I'd sure like to see to see the threads that led up to all that.
And as for "informative", his whole opening premise is based his lack of technical knowledge, where he calls the shifter switch "the OD switch". It's not called that anywhere that I know of. It's an OD "Control" switch, and his misconception seems to blind him to the AW70/71's basic OD Control similarity* to the manual OD version, which he describes with such affection as an implied example of "how things should be".
* The Manual OD control circuit has one more element than the comparable AW70/71 circuit(the 4th gear switch and wiring) and could thus more considered even more complex than the AW70/71 circuit.
I won't waste all the space he did with his manual to auto OD comparison, but will close my rant with a comparison you may rememberand which may shed some light (with less heat) on which OD system is better. (I say neither)
Both Auto and Manual use a shifter switch, control relay, and OD solenoid
Both types energize the solenoid to engage the OD.
Both types allow OD On/Off selection by the shifter switch.
Both types default to Direct Drive if the control circuit fails
The only operational/technical difference:
With the M46 4-speed, the starting default is OD OFF until selected ON
With AW 70/71 3-speed, the starting default is OD ON until selected OFF.
--
Bruce Young '93 940-NA (current) 240s (one V8) 140s 122s since '63.
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Regardless of how much you love your Volvo, the design of the over drive is flawwed in that it fails off. It would have been simple to have specified a solenoid that failed open instead of closed. The fact that so many have difficulties with the little beast is proof enough. Mine works well in both the flat land and mountains as a four speed and the other several will be changed when they start giving problems.
Just my opinion based on experience.
--
Will Dallas, www.willdallas.us, www.willdallas.org, www.willdallas.com 86 245 DL 205K miles, 93 940 250K miles, 88 765 GLE 149K miles, 86 244 DL 200K Miles, 88 744T 200K miles
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Regardless of how much you love your Volvo, the design of the over drive is flawwed in that it fails off.
My point is that the Manual OD also "fails off", and there have been as many or more of them since way back in the 120/140 days -- but nobody goes ballistic about them.
I suspect Auto box drivers would roar if the Overdrive Fairy suddenly switched things so they always had to manually select Overdrive on an automatic transmission.
And I'm not sure that Volvo had much to say about Aisin-Warner's solenoid. This same tranny was used in other cars, so I've heard here, as an A340 or something like that. Maybe Toyota Cressida? Wonder how it works there.
--
Bruce Young '93 940-NA (current) 240s (one V8) 140s 122s since '63.
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Hello. Thought I'd add my 2 cents worth on this often discussed topic. I own both an auto tranny Volvo('87) and also a manual tranny Volvo('86). Both have overdrives and both overdrives have been problmatic and both of them needed repair. The manual shift tranny overdrive tranny switch which only allows overdrive to work when in 4th gear failed. It was erratic sometimes allowing use of overdrive and sometimes not. Sometimes would work if I wiggled stick shift lever. Not a very good situation. As switch was in very hard to acess location I simply overode the switch by bypassing it. Now overdrive works every time. Yes it is true that it works in any gear now and yes it is true that you could cause serious damage if overdrive is engaged while in reverse. However I am the only driver of this car and am very careful about the matter.
The auto shift tranny overdrive wiring & electric was good. Solenoid itself was bad. New off brand replacement solenoid was over $100. So I as described here bypassed the solenoid. I dremeled it out. Now I have a full time working solenoid. I myself have never ever in over 4x years of owning the car wanted to or needed to disengage the overdrive so loosing this ability by bypassing solenoid does not bother me in the least.
While I most certainly do love my Volvos I would have to say that I think both the auto(particularly the auto)tranny overdrive system and also the manual tranny overdrive system are not particularly well designed and as our Volvos get older and age these design problems crop up. I am very very thankful to brickboard members for their insight and simple, practical, cost saving ideas on how to resolve & repair these things as they arise.
Happy 4th of July Holiday weekend to all !!!!!
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My wife has a 93 944 that we drove for two years back and forth over the Great Smokey range before we knew that the od was selectable. The shifter has a contour that makes it almost impossible to see or feel the switch from the drivers position. My wife was in the back seat on a trip and saw the button.
My 86 245 shifts beautifully up and down with the od modification which was made prior to a towing trip from Western Kentucky to Charlotte, NC. One thing that I've learned in my 57 years is not to plan an Elk hunt by reading "How To" articles, and don't listen to too much advice on car repair that is based on emotionalism. Design engineers are not infallible although most think that they are. (I'm a mechanical!)
Regards,
--
Will Dallas, www.willdallas.us, www.willdallas.org, www.willdallas.com 86 245 DL 205K miles, 93 940 250K miles, 88 765 GLE 149K miles, 86 244 DL 200K Miles, 88 744T 200K miles
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posted by Roger D. Scott on Fri Jan 16 14:07 UTC 2004
Author Info: [PROFILE] [EVERY POST] [THREADS]
There have been many posts here on failure of the 240 A70/71 automatic transmission overdrive electrical circuit, some of them quite bitter and competitive - check the archives. I'm going to try to help some poor souls by writing to this board again, although I know the snipers lie in wait to abuse me again on this subject. By the way, if you doubt my mechanical bona fides, I'm a retired nuclear submariner and this little overdrive circuit issue is small crackers. I am not offering the Volvo mechanic's "by the book" answer to problems with this circuit, nor am I going to tell you how to "keep it original," or how to perform microsurgery on sealed relays. Instead, I am going to tell you how to fix your car, for good. I eliminated the mis-named "overdrive" electrical circuit on my car, completely, by altering the overdrive solenoid so that it ALWAYS allows operating fluid pressure to the 4th gear circuit in the transmission. My car is now a permanent 4-speed, all day, and it does not depend on the operation of an electrical circuit to give me 4 forward gears.
People write "help" messages here and on other boards reporting that their 240 tranny dropped from 4th gear into 3rd gear and will not shift into 4th gear anymore, or does so erratically, in and out of 4th. this is almost always a failure of the "overdrive" electrical circuit, which enables 4th gear. The "concept" behind this arrangement is butt-backwards of what you would normally expect. If you grew up with Laycock de Normanville overdrives on manual transmissions - on your TRs, your Austin Healeys, and your old Volvos, you think that "overdrive" means an upshift to a higher gear, like from 4th gear to overdrive 4th so you can cruise the interstate - your concept is that you energize a circuit by flipping a switch, which causes a solenoid to retract electro-mechanically, which operates by a lever a hydraulic valve in the overdrive unit, which engages by hydraulic pressure the epicyclic/planetary gears, which changes your final drive output from 1:1 to .7:1 - engine RPMs drop, car goes faster. Right? That's not how it works on a 240 A70/71 transmission. On the A70/71 when you flip the "overdrive" switch you force the transmission out of 4th gear back into 3rd gear and your engine whines, wound out, obviously needing another gear to sustain 65-70 mph or better. This is not "overdrive" - it is more like a second method of shifting into "passing gear" - like for hills, or for a sudden burst to pass a slow truck. I'm not sure why this was needed, because the kickdown function on my 240 transmissions (I have had 5 240s) has always worked perfectly well if I wanted to drop down to 3rd gear from 4th gear. Let's assume that Volvo knew what they were doing and had a good reason for doing this - even so, they could have set it up so that the transmission normally operated in 4-speed mode with the "overdrive" circuit de-energized, then the driver could energize an electrical circuit that would run from a switch through a relay to a solenoid and would cut out fluid to the 4th gear operating circuit inside the tranny and cause a shift back to 3rd. This way, failure of the electrical circuit would give you a default 4-speed transmission. But no, they set it up so that the existence of 4th gear depends on the "overdrive" circuit being energized, all the time, and you force-downshift to third by de-energizing that circuit. This way a failure of the "overdrive" electrical circuit gives you a default 3-speed transmission. No one wants that because everyone operates their A70 in 4-speed mode day-in / day-out, and that is why there are so many messages here about this circuit. It cripples your car for high-speed highway use when it fails. More rpms means more wear on everything turning in the engine.
Now, let's add that this butt-backwards electrical circuit includes a unique relay that sells for anywhere from $30.00 to $50.00, a switch at the top of the gearshift lever with wires that get stressed and frayed, and a solenoid that lists for over $200.00, and is hard to get at with the transmission still in the car, in a very filthy location (grit and hydraulics do not mix well - so you have to spend a lot of time cleaning before you remove the o/d solenoid). And lets add that this electrical circuit is energized all the time you are using your car - no wonder it wears out and parts of it fail!
As you will read elsewhere in here, many times the problem is the relay. You can get to it by removing the glovebox and looking to the left just behind the dash there. It is white. There are plenty of posts on these boards about fixing or replacing (or jumpering out) this relay. If you want to get real nit-picky, you can try opening the relay case and doing solder-surgery on this plastic relay. I had no idea about this when I first engaged this problem - the relay looked sealed to me, and the relay-solderer's guild condemned me as a buffoon. (This is a rough crowd here). One relay surgeon's post on this board even went so far as to include a gallery of close-up relay pictures, in different stages of disassembly and repair - like electrical porn. If you have a relay problem and want to keep this bogus electrical circuit alive, there is already plenty of advice on "doing" the relay. Another main cause of failure seems to be the wires from the o/d switch where they come out of the shift lever column - they can get frayed due to physical stress due to shifting motion. There are posts on this too. The problem could be a shorted or broken wire anywhere in the circuit. You know how to hunt for that. Finally, the problem could be the expensive overdrive solenoid - it could be failed open, shorted, or clogged with crap.
The solenoid mounts to a machined, flat, horizontal surface on the driver's side of the tranny with two 12mm bolts and it has one white wire. The case is the ground. There are two small holes in the machined flat surface, and transmission fluid under pressure passes from one hole to the other, or not, depending on the position of the solenoid. The at-rest, de-energized position of the solenoid prevents fluid from "communicating" between these two holes, disrupting the hydraulic circuit that "enables" 4th gear. Keep in mind that this hydraulic circuit does not CAUSE a shift to 4th gear when complete - all it does is ENABLE 4th gear - the transmission will shift into and out of 4th gear at appropriate speeds/conditions by other means. When the solenoid is energized, it creates an electro-magnet that sucks up the core "slug" against gravity and spring pressure - when this core slug is lifted it opens a channel that allows fluid to pass from one hole to the other - completing the hydraulic circuit, enabling 4th gear. When the solenoid is de-energized (slug in the down position), this hydraulic circuit through the lower part of the solenoid is closed, fluid flow is disrupted and 4th gear is disabled.
If your solenoid fails, or if you are just tired of chasing this backwards circuit, here is the permanent fix. Remove the solenoid. There are good posts on how to do this - get everything really clean first. I had to heat red-hot and bend a cheap 12mm wrench to get the right down-curve offset to remove the two 12mm bolts, without having to get better access by dropping the back end of the tranny a little by removing the center support. Take the solenoid to the workbench. Cut the white wire off, all the way flush with the solenoid top, as an expression of your vengeful frustration with this circuit. Remove the two o-rings (they will either be in the o-ring seal-tracks in the bottom of the solenoid, or stuck to the machined flat surface on the tranny - either way, get rid of them). You will see on the bottom, or "business end" of the solenoid a hole in the very center and a hole near the outer periphery. You want fluid to be able to pass from one of these to the other, so take a Dremel moto-tool with a very fine metal-cutting burr-style bit and route/cut a channel between the two holes. Try to keep this new fluid channel neat and not much larger than the diameter of the largest of the two holes. When finished, blow it off with compressed air, flush it with brake cleaner, etc. - clean all the crap off, metal, dirt, all of it. Put a new o-ring in the outer o-ring channel. I "tack" it in place with a little aviation permatex dotted into the channel in a few spots on a toothpick just to hold the o-ring. There are two ways to go with the inner o-ring - I have done both and both work: (1) leave it out altogether, or (2) slice a small section out of a new center o-ring, for the fluid channel you routed out with the Dremel tool, and tack the resulting "C"-ring (ha ha) in place with aviation permatex, making sure that the open section in the sliced o-ring lines up with your fluid channel. Let the permatex have a few minutes to set so the o-rings won't fall out when you turn the solenoid upside down to mount it. Lay your jimmied solenoid onto the machined surface on the transmission carefully and bolt it down. Now your brick has a 4-speed transmission again, all the time, and the whole o/d electrical circuit is irrelevant - no more soldering of relays. If you want passing gear, kick it down and it will give you third without having to flip a switch on the shift head. I have two cars with this fix on them now, and I have two more 240s (family, with kids) that will get it as soon as their o/d circuits act up.
I hope this helps some regular Joe fix his car and get rid of a headache permanently. Meanwhile, I am ready now for the army of hecklers who haunt this board to start attacking me for every conceivable reason. I think there must be some secret code that I do not know that lets you post here without being savaged by "the regulars." Bring it on, gentlemen.
RDS
THREADED THREADED EXPANDED PRINT ALL
MESSAGES IN THIS THREAD
>Volvo 240 automatic transmission overdrive circuit - spell-checked<
posted by Roger D. Scott on Fri Jan 16 14:07 UTC 2004
--
Norm Cook; Vancouver BC; 1989 745T 208,000KM
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posted by
someone claiming to be Charlane
on
Fri Jul 1 08:50 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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I've read this before some time back. Sounds interesting and it might have merit and I knew it came from a 'jarhead'. All good.
Charlane
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sounds like a good solution to a stupid set up. I have replaced the solenoide on a friend's slush box and at the time thought the entire set up was counter intuitive. But I don't like autos so I didn't put much thought into it. I like my volvos but volvo does make occassional errors in judgement; on my 120 the windscreen wash can only be activated when the wipers are already at high speed this of course means that by the time the fluide gets there you have already started scratching your windscreen with whatever you wanted to get rid of. Other errors in judgement by volvo IMHO 140,740, all the FWDs.
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Patrick, '68 220, '83 245, '92 Eurovan (work truck).
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I've tried to get some information about the design intent of Aisin Warner's 3sp auto w/ OD. This is the way I've heard the trans described too btw: a 3 sp w/ OD and not a 4sp.
If you look at the trans though it doesn't look like the 4th gear OD was part of an engineering afterthought.
Volvo drivetrain engineers would have worked closely with Aisin Warner to design this trans ... ha, then again they may have taken whatever AW had since this trans is also used for Totota too.
If they were trying to maintain control over 3rd and 4th gears (IE for mountain driving) then just have the ability to control gears 2 thru 4 with the shift lever.
And lockup ... where's my lockup! Don't understand why they were so late in the game with this one either. My '84 Accord has it and it definitely helps with gas mileage.
Rant = off. I really like the trans having said that. It's very solid and at 125,000 miles it feels like it will go another 100,000.
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Norm Cook; Vancouver BC; 1989 745T 208,000KM
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I too have a overdrive problem with my 240 manual transmission it jumps out of 5th gear . Does anyone have a suggestion for troubleshooting? Thank you , Bill
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this is a different issue as it is for a manual. Let's be clear you have a 4 spd with o.d. not a 5 spd. First thing to check is the electrical connections. Start at the solenoide as oil and grease can cause an intermitant connection. While you are down there check that you have enough oil in the tranny. If these two things are o.k. look elsewhere for broken electrical lines and once you are sure the solenoide is getting solid current (maybe by- pass all wiring and test drive) Warning!!! any jerry rigging of solenoide should be temporary and you MUST NEVER!!! drive in reverse with the o.d. engaged as this will DESTROY!!! your tranny. If you are positive the eletrical and oil level is good you can R&R the solenoide, you will need o rings and whatnot search the archives for more info. Usually it is low oil or electrical that causes problems but many are quick to blame the solenoide that is pretty much the last place I look as it is the most expensive to fix and all the other stuff should be checked first anyhow.
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Patrick, '68 220, '83 245, '92 Eurovan (work truck).
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I too have a overdrive problem with my 240 manual transmission it jumps out of 5th gear . Does anyone have a suggestion for troubleshooting?
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I bypassed the OD on my 86 245 about a year ago and have had no problems whether driving around town ot towing other Volvos over the mountains. I took the OD solenoid off and drilled a small passage between the two fluid ports. I then enlarged the passage to a small channel and re-installed the OD solenoid without the inner "O" ring. It has been a 4 speed ever since.
You should make certain that the area around the solenoid is very clean before you remove it and make certain to flush the tranny ports with something like WD 40 to blow out any loose dirt before re-assembling. If the spool inside of the tranny is stuck with grit, it won't make any difference what you do to the solenoid, the od will not engage.
There is a great "How TO" post on the procedure in the archives, but I do not have a URL for it. Try searching "Overdrive Solenoid" and you will turn it up eventually.
Hope it helps,
--
Will Dallas, www.willdallas.us, www.willdallas.org, www.willdallas.com 86 245 DL 205K miles, 93 940 250K miles, 88 765 GLE 149K miles, 86 244 DL 200K Miles, 88 744T 200K miles
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