So I've been pulling the old injectors from my 164 and I was wondering if converting to the Weber system might not be a bad idea.
So here's something to start a conversation on.
Is it possible to do a conversion?
Would there be any benefit?
Have any of the guru's here attempted it and if so was it worth the time?

Just looking at the system, I thought that maybe getting rid of the computer and associated systems might free up some future headaches and so on.
Plus, the kid me me loves the trumpet look.

If you wan't reliabilty at a good price just get some Sus, they perform better than the downdraft Webers and get better milage, there are no computers involved, and if you get electronic ignition you will never tune you car again. The beauty of the Sus is that they work even if all out of tune and fricked up, so when you get em right it is a dream. You can even lean them up a bit for long distance driving across the praries etc (watch the temp though, you could burn a valve). The reason I have my B20 with SUs is because they are indestructable. I have no idea how much Megasquirt costs, but I can pretty much bet that you could buy 2 set of rebuilt SU's for the same price. There are guys selling this stuff on the net.
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Patrick, '68 220, '83 245, '92 Eurovan (work truck).

Nobody was talking about downdraft Webers, but rather DCO/DCOE sidedrafts. Entirely different beasties, and very pricey.

I like SUs fine, but would not swap properly working injection for them.

To convert a D-jet system to MegaSquirt is in the $500-$750 range. In comparison, I recently converted a customer's catastrophically done Weber downdraft setup on a B20 to SUs. Carb cores, rebuilding, manifold, heatshield, linkage, air cleaners and a proper choke cable rig came to well over $800, and I thought those were entirely fair prices.

Missed that he was talking B30. Does the same hold true for a B20?
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Patrick, '68 220, '83 245, '92 Eurovan (work truck).

The SU manifold for the B30s is a kinda ugly piece.

The carbs have the same spacing as on the B20 (you can
use a B20 SU heat shield on the B30) so the outside
cylinders have longer runners than the inside cylinders.
Also, the thing is cast iron and has both intake and
exhaust on the same piece so there are heat soak issues.
Also, the exhaust half is prone to cracking.

That said, my 164 with twin strombergs (same mounting
as SUs) was a sweet running little car. Of course, it was
also kinda thirsty, it had too much bondo and a terrible
paint job.

If you got a car that doesn't work, fix what's broken.
If you really want to change things, change as little as
possible or be ready to spend lots of money.
chris

You could probably do an MS install for 1/2 that if you pick-n-pulled the few hardware parts you really need (FPR, TPS) and built the MS controller yourself.
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I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.

The proper way to tune weber carbs to a motor is to put the car on a dyno with an exhaust
gas meter and swap out sets of small brass bits until the car produces max power at all RPMs
and throttle positions.

Expect this to take a week of solid dyno time if you are at a shop that has a complete set
of brass bits and people who know what they're doing.

In other words -- webers are expensive and tuning them adds dramatically to the cost. Most
people don't tune them correctly and get terrible mileage and inconsistent performance.
chris

Compare this to MS. After the initial installation the tuning is free - just hook up a laptop and tweak the numberical tables. You can even install an O2 sensor in the exhaust, and get some software (I think it's called MegaTweak) that will tweak your tables for you as you drive around (the closed loop feedback corrects the values somewhat, but you want them to be pretty close to begin with).

HOWEVER, it must be said that for a BONE STOCK B20 or B30, that the D-Jet does a darn fine job of metering the fuel out. If you are having problems with it, it will almost surely be easier to fix them (computer, wiring, 3 or 4 sensors, injectors, fuel pressure - not much there really). D-Jet (and most other OEM computers, really) just can't adapt well to modified hardware, that's where MS really makes a difference.
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I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.

HOWEVER, it must be said that for a BONE STOCK B20 or B30, that the D-Jet does a darn fine job of metering the fuel out. If you are having problems with it, it will almost surely be easier to fix them (computer, wiring, 3 or 4 sensors, injectors, fuel pressure - not much there really). D-Jet (and most other OEM computers, really) just can't adapt well to modified hardware

JohnMc is 100% correct here. Healthy D-Jet can't be beaten on a stock engine. Where B30's fall down is on the exhaust side. Horrible ports & an undersized exhaust system.

John,

Have you done the MS conversion? If so, how much? I just can't seem to get the d-jet system bug free, and I am all alone up here in South Dakota, with no one in sight who knows d-jet. Is there plenty of support during the conversion?

Thanks
Kent
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Kent - too much iron, too little time

Depends. It is definately a DIY sort of thing, but there is a pretty active community to give advice: http://www.msefi.com/

I don't have it done yet on mine. I have the controller, and I mess around with it and the PC, but I haven't hooked it up to the car yet. I'm still not sure what ignition I'm going to go with. And spring weather makes me spend all my time on the bikes, and not under the hood of the car.

But probably some time this spring I hope to get the ignition running on MS, and over the winter to put fuel injection on in place of the DCOEs.
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I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.

Weber sidedrafts, as in three two-barrels?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Then you'll have at least half again that much $ invested in tuning parts, as well as many, many hours of your time.

Also, depending where you read or hear it, Weber is either out of business or just about to go out of business. I don't know what will eventually happen to the availability of those tuning parts. There's a Japanese (?) knockoff of the DGV downdraft available, but I haven't seen anything about performance-oriented carbs.

Bottom line is that it would be much cheaper and simpler to convert your injection to MegaSquirt, if tunability and reliability are issues.

I second that opinion. MS it using the D-Jet hardware (for the most part). You'll get better control over the whole FI opreation. You can add an O2 sensor and get feedback. It will be adaptable to any performance enhancements that you might ever make. And it won't even cost too terribly much.

Of course, if you have a huge stack of money laying around, you could buy Weber manifolds and then get three DCOE style throttle bodies, use that whole lot with MS - probably would cost similar to buying the manifolds, 3 webers, and tuning parts.
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I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.

I agree. You can use the same injectors(with current limiting), sensors, and fuel pump. You will need to get a different TPS and FPR, but the conversion is pretty straight-forward.