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Hi All,
A Coworker of my sister-in-law has a 1993 965, mileage unknown. I spoke with her husband briefly yesterday, and here is what he says:
Timing belt broke. He took it to his (apparently non-Volvo) mechanic, who fixed the valves and reinstalled the head, but failed to mark the cams (?) properly and now has no idea how to reinstall. Ownwer says that the car is in good shape (my brother and I will go look at it this weekend), has new tires, and has recently had the PNP switch (I think) redone. He doesn't want this thing in his driveway anymore and is willing to take about $1K for it. A quick perusal of the FAQs shows tha I would need to buy a tool in order to time the thing properly at the cost of about $400. I spoke to my Volvo independent, and he said he'd be willing to square the car away for $600 to $1000, depending on what else the car needs.
My questions are: Is this a good deal? How hard is it to do the job with the correct tool(s)? Where can I get /rent the correct tool(s)? What manual should I get? Is this even a good idea?
I figure worst case I ruin the engine and then have a candidate for a V8 conversion, but I really would like to get it running again. Wife.gov has no problems with this approach but might balk at going to the independent right away.
Any comments are welcome. Thanks iin advance for your advice.
Andy De Block
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93 940
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I'm no expert in replacing engines, but it seems to me that the first thing you have to do is look at the car and find out as much about it's history and condition as possible. All other things being equal, my approach would be to calculate the cost of a new engine (or block, or whatever the worst case scenario might be)) with labor supplied by either a COMPETENT Volvo mechanic or yourself, add in any other issues, and determine how far this amount falls below or above a price you'd be willing to spend on a (working) car purchased straighaway.
I would say there is a lot of appeal to 'starting from scratch', thus extending the useful life of the car, despite the ominous tone of an "engine relpacement".
That said, remember that the 93 is an early model so it has some development issues (short belt life) that you will need to live with. I owned a 92 and still love it (my son now owns it). Before I sold it to him I put new shock all around including NIvos on the rear and IPD sway bars. I really liked the ride and handling as a result. IMO, as good or beter than my 97 V90 I currently own. I don't rank the porous block as a pervasive issue, although a cold engine pressure test is always in order.
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John Shatzer, '97 V90 @ 105K
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The mechanic obviously has no clue about doing extensive work on the I-6 and, as such, I think it's safe to assume the head rebuild was not done properly either. You're probably looking at more than just timing the cams...probably another head rebuild at the very least. If you factor in the cost of doing another valve job and it still looks attractive, go for it. It's a great car. Mine is hands down better in every respect than the 760Ti and 260GLE that came before it.
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Lance '92 965 w/ 190K miles
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Don't even get involved with this car. It's very difficult and time consuming to repair a 960 head. It's made up of three seperate castings with the lower and middle ones being glued and bolted together. The middle and top portion are the cam bearings and cover. Refurbished heads are expensive. Replacement engines are also expensive.
Timing marks are visible but not obvious. On the lower timing belt sprocket there is a mark at the back for alignment. On the timing belt top cover, there are two arrow marks for cam alignment. Then there is the cam position sensor which may or may not be on the engine since I only know about the later versions with OBD-II electronics.
The V-8 approach may be a good one or a Turbo-4 from a 940T. You will need all the electronics and wiring harness as well as the engine. Better yet, find a 940T.
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Warren Bain - '99 V70GLT G-Valve > 80K mi, 89 300SE, '96 965 >120Kmi, near Manassas Va.. Check the 700/900 FAQ via the 'features' pull down menu. This post written with 100% recycled electrons.
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There are a number of bricksters who are very satisfied with their 960's, and a few who got nuked.
The problem, IIRC, is two-fold.
(1) earlier models had problem with the cast aluminum block, in that it was porous and oozed/leaked/failed.
(2) The I-6 is an interference engine. Timing belt failure results in damage to the valves and head, and also to the pistons. Some reported that the damage was that the ring grooves were crushed downwards, requiring a major engine rebuild.
If what you see is a really good car with engine issues, negotiate with the idea of an engine replacement in the costs to you.
Good Luck,
Bob
:>)
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You'll want to first discuss this with the original mechanic who did the head job: what did he do, what manuals did he use, did he follow spec, etc. If the only problem is re-timing it, then it's a steal IF the head reconditioning was done correctly. If not, it will be a money pit.
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Was there a '93 965? Maybe it's a 960, or does the "5" indicate 5 doors (thus a wagon)?
Anyway, take a look at www.edmunds.com for what fair used prices are for the car. From what they say about the 960, it sounds like if it has a reasonable number of miles (say, 150,000 or less) and if it can be fixed for under $1,000, it would be a very good price.
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There is one on E-bay for 1600.00 and runs with 120,000 plus all the service records. I would buy it if I could thro the cams in put the timing belt on and see if it fires up. It will only cost you time. The engine timing marks are set up not on top dead center. If the head was installed without the cam being put in out of time then there is a good chance no harm has been done. Just put the crank on the timing mark, you will see a line on the oil pump and the inside of the crank pulley has an arrow, line those two up. take the cams and look at the pulleys. Is ther a little mark on each
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Heat,
He referred to it as a 960 wagon, I just tried to use the old Volvo shorthand for a wagon (5 at the end). Sorry for the confusion.
Good idea about edmunds, I'll look it up.
Thanks,
Andy De Block
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93 940
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