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Folks, this is getting heart breaking seeing the ol' Volvo deterorate with lack of a true mechanic's touch but I've done everything on this mostly reliable beast in last year due to avoiding overcharging local mechanics and out of necessity.
I did the water pump myself, changed the selfdestructing Alternater, and pulled hairs over the simple, but expensive Air Meter Fiasco. And the car's been great on the other hand. Good compression, only minimal oil use and rust is mostly under control... but this time something major is needed..
It is still my daily driver but not for long if I don't get the things fixed. Oil is coating the front of the engine and everyday the performance is affected. It's needed a new timing belt for a long time and a local mechanic did check under the car and he is too busy but said I definitly need new seals in front of engine too and he thinks that's bad for timing belt... when I change the belt..(he is only 'affordable' only on weekends and he's not interested in my ol' beast and the dealership he works at charges way too much..)
hey, I paid 500 hundred for this car and put in over 1500 for new brakes and assorted other stuff in two years but I see newer inspected Volvos going for less than a thousand and they Run and have less rust. I really don't want to part with my DIY mostly project and daily driver... but I don't know if I'm up for the major seal repairs, timing belt etc needed to get this car running reliably and inspected (parking brake no longer works too...). 190K. and with significant but not too-hard-on-the-eyes rust... (just floor and rockers and rear hatch all patched...) I could maybe get 4 or 5 hundred If it was inspected and cleaned up.. but I've let the sticker lapse for avoidance of more bills and risking our state's hundred dollar fine...(which is less than what'll cost to fix parking brake if mechanic does it...) So this is an Scofflaw car on it's last legs UNLESS heroic treatment comes along. .. and I'm the only one likely to save the beast.
First ? Why do the mechanic's want to charge so much for what seems for them a simple timing belt change...? one said a 6 hour maybe job another said 3 or 4 hours and a Volvo specialist said maybe 2 (but they then need to tackle the front seals....on top of that) and whatelse...? I could see a 6 to thousand dollar bill coming my way if I allow them to fix everything. And I can buy a just inspected Volvo of newer vintage for less... but with UNKNOWN problems that could come with another car. I know most of the one's mine has>>
Second ? If I can change my waterpump... which wasn't that easy due to the fit with a prystick required... with some cussing on my part... Can I change my timing belt for a little more time and money with waterpump skills? But more important can I change the seals on my own? And what if the cam seal is the culprit and cam needs fixing... ah oh. and oh brother, and etc. etc...
I guess their are just too many problems. Heroic treatment maybe necessary...but then again all in all none of the problems seem too serious in themselves but soo many? (not even talking about overdrive never working, continue hard clutching at start... perhaps due to rear seal leaking too (it does drip out of clutch area), no AC etc... and new tires on top of it coming sooon///)
The other thing, everybody likes my car even if it's messy inside. My dog loves it.....
okay, this is more of a whine than anything else. I'll get on with cleaning up the oil, checking plugs etc.. but have to go work on Sunday for a few hours and the part's stores aren't going to have everything tomorrow anyway.. even if I was so ambitious to tear into the timing belt and seal job. Do others do this job in one day of amatuer mechanic time>? But I have my doubt's it'll make it through the week with the engine seeming to stall more and more with more oil leaking. Cam's affected perhaps with wet timing belt perhaps? plugs getting clogged... or is it a headgasket??? Just enough to think about .. another car? gulp.
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Dave, You can do this job. Believe me, I looked at my first timing belt with a lot of trepidation, too. Thought I was going to screw up big time but I took my time and had my Haynes and Bently manuals with me and all will go well if you follow the directions. For a non-interference engine B230f.
Pretty much went like this: Car up on ramps, fan off shroud off. Loosen AC and Alt belt tensioners: belts off. Pop dist. cap. Go underneath and take off bellhousing bracket-6 bolts. on drivers side of flywheel put small reg screwdriver up top to keep motor from turning when you loosen the Crankshaft pulley with a breaker bar with a 24mm cup. After that take off top and bottom halves of timing belt cover.
Now every thing comes into view. Make your markings if you want.When you are ready to remove the TB, use a finishing nail to hold back the tensioner so the belt will come off easier. Its up to you but if the cam seal is dry like mine was leave it and leave sprocket on. Remove seal cover on bottom and put new seals on, new gasket and reinstall- good time to do a little cleaning. You should put in a new tesioner, too.
Note that when you are ready to put on the new TB, Make sure the distributor rotor is pointing to the No. 1 cylinder. The distributor shaft is free of the Crank/cam shafts so don`t worry if you accidently turn it. And follow the detail directions when installing the new TB and put it all back together. Switch the screwdriver to other side of flywheel before you tighten camshaft pulley. Kind of a thumbnail desciption but basically thats it. Good luck and take your time.
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Just a thought. Are you sure it's the seals? It may be the oil pressure switch located near the oil filter that is leaking.
Wipe it down. Start the engine and look for seepage around the electrical tab. Might save a lot of money if that's the prob.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb and M46 trans
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It's a dillema isn't it. I got my car for free with panel damage and a blown head gasket, and so far it's cost me as much as buying one that already ran, but it's been a fun project, and with the number of parts I'm replacing or servicing, I'm hoping to end up with a better car, and one which I have learned how to service. It's worth bearing in mind that if it's your daily driver, you can't afford to have it off the road for too long while you tinker with it. Lots of people on this forum have a stable of volvos, so they can just drive another one while it's off the road.
If you're stuffing around with the timing gear, the first thing you want to find out is whether you have an interfearence engine, that is, can the crankshaft and cam can be turned independantly of each other without the pistons and valves hitting each other and causing expensive damage. Most volvo engines are no-intefearence, but I don't know what motor is in your '89 and I don't have my Haynes with me. Ask around the Brickboard. The Haynes manual is reasonably comprehensive on timing belt changes, with some good illustrations. Do you own one? If not they are a terrific investment, even if you plan to sell the car and buy another volvo.
Pull the timing belt cover off and have a look at your motor. See if you can narrow down that oil leak. Start her up so you can watch for any oil spurting out. If it appears to be coming from between the cylinder head and the engine block write back and let us know.
If it is the cam seal, as you suspect, then its no major headache and you'll need to take the timing belt off to fix it anyway
The timing belt is not too dificult. Start by removing the other belts. Put a socket on the crankshaft bolt and rotate the motor while you lever off the belts. My grandpa uses the starter motor to save time, but he's a more experienced mechanic than me.
Once you've skinned your nuckles taking those off, reward yourself with a biscuit, then start on the timing belt. There's a spring loaded pulley on the head. The shaft inside the spring has a small hole in so you can jam the mechanism. Find a suitable tool, a jumbo pair of adjustable grips would be ideal, and compress the spring. Stick something through the hole to lock the spring in place and take the tension off the belt. Should come off easily now.
Now the offical way of doing this dicates that you make sure nothing moves while you have the belt off. With an interfearence engine this is esential. and it does save time if you don't have to re-time the motor. According to one old volvo manual (printed 1978) you're supposed to use tool 5034, whatever the f**k that is to prevent the cam pulley from rotating.
If you are changing the cam seal you are going to have to find a way to stop the cam from rotating while you undo the bolt up the middle of it. Try wrapping the old timing belt around it and pulling in the opposite direction. If you can make something to go in those two holes like the official volvo tool, that would be ideal. Once you've got the pulley off, remove the seal from around the shaft.
I can't remember taking the seal out myself, which means that either it came out so easily that I don't remember, or someone helping me took it out, either way I can't remember. Ask someone else if you're stuck on that. Doesn't matter if you butcher it taking it out though, just don't scratch the metal orifice it goes in, it's got to seal.
Putting it back in is simple enough. Either find a bit of piping with the same diameter as the seal and use it to push the new seal into the hole, or very gently tap around the sides of the seal evenly with a punch (being careful not to damage it) until it won't push down any more. I'd never done a seal change before, and we've been running it without it leaking. Score one the begginer mechanic.
Do the bolt up the middle of the cam up nice and tight. This is so much easier if you can stop it from moving
Alright. Now to put the timing belt back. If you made sure none of the pulleys moved while it was off this will be easier, but don't panic if you didn't. Each pulley has a little dot drilled into its rim. These correspond with three white lines painted on the new timing belt. The Idea is to get these three lines to correspond to the teeth indicated by the three dots.
The belt won't tell you which ones which, but it really only fits one way
Twiddle them arround and swear at them until everything lines up nicely.
Now compress your belt tensioner, pull the pin out and put some tension on the belt.
See if it starts. I accept no responsibility if it doesn't
Turn the crank pulley again with the socket while you jemmy the other belts back on.
And that, I think, should cover how to change a cam seal and a timing belt.
--
Drive it like you hate it
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Interference engines. The description from 245L Van of what that means is very good. The Volvo 4-cylinder 8-valve engines are non-interference. Makes life soooo much easier. The B234 engine, 4-cylinder and 16 valves, is interference.
One trick in doing a timing belt is to mark the belt on its edges. I use that office stuff like "Wite-Out" or "Liquid Paper" because that's what I have around. On the edges that face the radiator, make the same marks as the lines across the belt. Also make a mark that highlights the marks on the camshaft and intermediate shaft pulleys and backing plates.
Then mark the crankshaft. The double stripe on the timing belt marks a spot on the belt that, when properly installed, does not touch the crankshaft gear mark. I put the belt on the crank pulley only, wrapped so the double line does sit on the marked crank tooth, and then I make a new mark four teeth counterclockwise on both the pulley and the belt. When that new set of marks and all the other marks are lined up, the engine should be in time OK.
Next re-tension the belt by removing the pin holding back the spring in the tensioner. Tighten down the tensioner pulley. Using the breaker bar on the crankshaft pulley and with the crank locked (on stick shift, emergency brake on, transmission in 3rd gear) tighten that center bolt.
Put the trans in neutral. Use the breaker bar and turn the crank one complete turn forward and one complete turn backwards. The timing belt marks should be back in their respective correct places.
Everything here I learned the hard way - no reason for anyone else to go down that path. Good Luck on the job.
BTW. I bought the special tool for holding the crankshaft from moving while removing and re-torquing the center bolt. It wasn't cheap, but with 2 daily drivers with the B230F engine and AW70 trans, it was justifiable. Then I got overconfident on a T-belt change I had to re-do the job four times to get it right. The tool was justified almost to the point of being worshipped.
Good Luck,
Bob
:>)
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The job is a DIY job. There are only a few tricky spots, and the FAQs and your Haynes or Bentley shop manuals will get you though things OK.
Since you have a standard shift, the usual tricks for holding the crankshaft from turning won't be needed. Hooray for your side!
Have available all belts, timing, alternator (a matched set), a/c drive and p/s drive. Also have the front crank seal and three of the camshaft seals. (One for cam, one for intermediate shaft, and one in case you screw up on one.) Do the camshaft seal first.
Be verrry careful to NOT scratch the surface of a shaft. Even a teeny weeny scratch will cause a leak. If, by chance, you do scratch one, the scratch can be removed using 400 grit emery paper. Takes about 3 hours by hand.
Note that the a/c has TWO belt adjuster mechanisms, the obvious one in front and another in the back.
Be sure to disconnect the negative battery cable B4 starting. Sometimes sparks = fried computers.
Yes, it's big job - lotsa small steps. Allow a day for it, and have plenty of GoJo to clean up (ACE hardware sells vinyl gloves 100 for $7 or so.)
Good Luck,
Bob
:>)
PS. Oil on the timing belt will hasten its demise.
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Okay, I'll give it a try. Maybe next weekend. Yupp, I can feel the belt getting worse and so forth.
I wonder if my going to synthetic oil had any thing to do with it about a year ago. Maybe I shoulda gone with the thicker OldCar oil instead marketed for cars that are old... and other's have mentioned seals opening up more after the thinner, but nicely running synthetic oil. It felt like the engine ran better with synthetics and the oil looks so much cleaner and last longer..but I did notice more oil leaking after starting synthetic..
'course getting over 170K in miles and 16-17 years old might have something to do with it too....
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The way I understand it - yes, leaks can be one result of such a switch.
Consider this: dino (for dinosaur) oil can leave behind a bit of sludge and/or varnish, and that stuff can make a seal continue to seal after the seal itself begins to wear out.
So you switch to synthetic. MMMMM, real clean stuff, leaves no sludge and/or varnish. Nice. But, it dissolves and carries away those little amounts of sludge and/or varnish that the dino oil left. Ooops, now those seals don't have that little bit of help, so they begin leaking.
The front and rear crankshaft seals, camshaft and intermediate shaft seals, all work well in a very low pressure environment. As long as the pressure is low, no problems.
What raises the pressure? The system for removing oily blow-by vapors gets clogged up, the natural blow-by pressure has no escape and begins building up, and it finds the weakest spot - one of those seals or the half-moon plug on the rear of the cam cover.
How to avoid that problem? Keep all the components of the Positive Crankcase Ventilation system super-clean. Is it clean now? Just barely lift up the oil filler cap while the engine is at idle. Can you feel a slight vacuum trying to pull the cap back down? Yes = OK. No = clean the flame trap and all other PCV components. Good News: Clogging reduced to nil by using synthetic oil.
Good Luck,
Bob
:>)
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Hey! I'm new on the board but have a 1984 turbo 240. I replaced the timing belt on it last year when I experienced a bad/burnt valve and found it was much cheaper to recylce a head from the bone yard for a $75.00 than to do the "head" thru a local shop. The hard part is lining up the marks to make sure of everything synching up. I would equate that to the hard part of the water pump r/r which I just bolted a new one on yesterday but haven't finished. The hard part of the water pump is prying it off and then back on. Knowledge, obtained here or from a friend, manual, pictures, local shop or wreckin/recyclin yard and patience ( to avoid damage or doin' it twice or thrice) are the key. U Can do it. I know nothing about the seals though and hope to never have ta ... I will defer to some other voice of experience for that.
Wayne
ps: always takes me longer than sposed to so plan on that before you start.
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You can do three front seals, timing belt, tensioner, and water pump for under $100, probably about $85 from Groton. It's not too difficult if you are patient and have the tools.
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Thanks to everyone for the help, Doug C. 81 242 Brick Off Blocks, stock, M46; 86 240, 133k
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