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I am looking into buying a 1972 P1800ES and am going to look at the car soon. I was wondering what potential problems I should look for and what reasonable pricing would be (it has AC, 4 speed, 93K miles, new tires, light rust on the lower quarter panels)? Any help would be much appreciated. I currently have a '99 C70 but I'ld like to get a classic volvo and one I could use to occassionally haul things in.
Thanks in advance,
Bret M. Binder
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You will either need to learn to do your own maintenance and repairs, or have access to a specialist in Volvos of that age. A Volvo dealership may not want to have anything to do with it. It's a very simple car and generally easy to work on, but most "technicians" today have zero understanding of the technology involved.
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By far the biggest issue on an 1800 is rust. They rust severely given a moist climate and especially salted winter roads. Bad rust is not economically repairable - good 1800's (they can be found still) are much cheaper than the expense of replacing body panels and repairing frame sections.
Check for rust (and bondoed over rust) here:
1) Sills
2) Front fenders - over headlights, back lower edge
3) Floord bards - pull the carpet to the side
4) Front edge of the frame where the front bumper mounts
5) Front jack points - under your feet when sitting, behind the front wheels
The AC system is a money pit unless it has been converted to R134a (modern stuff) otherwise figure on a conversion job once it needs a recharge - I think the cost of a R12 refill is more than the conversion now anyway.
If it has an auto tranny it is a lot less desirable for most people - if it has an OD make sure it shifts in and out (and back in) properly. The drivetrain and mechanical parts on an 1800 are pretty much bulletproof - especially with 93K miles. Unless its been abused and not maintained at all it should be in fine shape. Compared to a modern car this probably won't feel very quick - a '73 with the somewhat hobbled 'F' engine isn't light on its feet, especially with the dreaded auto tranny.
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I appreciate the advice. I will check carefully for rust (from what I was told, it is only around the front fenders, but it is a fear of mine). I didn't know about the AC system, so I definitely will ask. Any idea what kind of offer I should make if it is in decent shape (with the rust limited)? Somebody else mentioned doing the work myself as a way to save money, and I hope to learn and do a bit myself, but my dealer should be pretty good about helping out as I have a good relationship with them. Thanks to everyone for the advice to a young guy starting his collection (hopefully), and keep it coming if anybody has any more.
-Bret M. Binder
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Bret;
There's no such thing as "rust only around the front fenders" rust progresses at a similar rate at all the suseptable places...it may just be worse at one or the other...I don't mean to p*** on your parade, but that's not a good sign!
See if you can engage an 1800 experienced "expert" in your area to act as a technical reference when you go to check the car out in person.
Cheers
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Ron,
Sorry, I do agree that it's good to help a prospective 1800 buyer to be wary of seller claims, especially concerning rust, but I must ask you to explain your statement, because I totally disagree with your logic, assessment and advice in this particular instance.
Rust does NOT progress, as you said, "at a similar rate at all the suseptable places". Many, many, many variables will determine where on the car, and to what extent, rust will progress.
If it's not the difference in extent, or progress, of the rust, what other criterion would make it "worse at one (place) or the other"?
Did the car sit in a relatively dry ambient environment for 20 years, but, unfortunately, on a concrete slab that sweated, profusely, every 24 hours? It could be a real eye catcher, even up close, but look at the floorboards, or I should say, look FOR the floorboards, because there might not be much left.
Did someone do a substandard undercoat that started trapping water a few years after application? Ditto the floorboards and integrated structural elements, even fenders, on an otherwise great car.
I've seen and discussed the possible explanation for an 1800 that inexplicably had rust in only the front fenders, as on this car, primarily around the headlight pocket, as well as the nose and general front surface area. The rest of the car was basically rust free (and I don't toss that term around). It was last registered in the SF Bay Area, so we jokingly guessed that it could have been a garaged car, both at home and at work, but commuted thru an area with morning and evening fog, but not rain.
If Bret checks the car thoroughly, and it's an otherwise good car for his needs, and the front fenders check out to be the only part of this car that have rust issues, he could still have a worthwhile candidate.
Good luck, Bret. Did we mention to remember to check for rust? ;^)
gary
'67 122S - One complete thru-rust hole adjacent to exhaust pipe route, at passenger floorboard (variable - intense heat, battery acid from above?). Rest of car completely rust free.
'72 ES - Original #46 Red paint job, 4 years ago. Only rust area was in door sill, passenger side (variable - bad, sunny side door and window rubber and plugged drain holes?). New metal was installed to full progress of rust in sill area. Rest of car was, and is, completely rust free (Colorado, above 9,000 ft. - Now in Austin, Tx.)
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Gary;
You are correct, rust progresses at varying rates as influenced by a whole bunch of factors. My statement: "rust at a similar rate at all the suseptable places" (note that I did NOT write "identical rate"), was intended to convey that if there is rust break-through evident in one of the typical places (around headlights), then there's a pretty good chance (I'd bet a hot fudge sundae), it is probably well along at some of the other suseptable areas, like transverse box sections under foot....that's not to say that you couldn't find exceptions...
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I would like to comment on a couple of points you made.
Parking on concrete floors: In this park of the country, I'd rather park my car over a concrete floor ANY day than over an unimproved surface (soil, lawn, traprock over dirt etc.)...nothing is worse for an undercarriage than parking over a moist surface which indeed evaporates moiture, continously, at a fairly high rate. Your statement that a "concrete slab that sweated, profusely, every 24 hours", may only be valid in your area..."sweating" (or condensation on a surface) is a function of the temperature of a surface, and the RH of the surrounding air...sweating occurs when the surface is below "dewpoint", so this may or may not occur daily and is strictly a function of local weather conditions.
A concrete slab is a huge thermal mass taking on the temperature of the earth it is in contact with, and yes, it is porous, but the amount of moisture and the rate at which it is able to migrate this moisture through from below is nothing compared to moisture available from the air....the point is: The moisture which is condensing on the concrete under the car comes mostly from the air.
...but this is all academic...moisture is moisture, and if it condensing on the slab, it's likely also condensing on the undercarriage, and since moisture is a required ingredient for rust, whatever you can do to keep it from contacting the metal is good.
General: Making a barrier by coating (acid neutralized) surfaces with paint/undercoating, providing a sacreficial anode of a less noble metal - galvanizing, decreasing the RH to prevent condensation - park in a well ventilated, low moisture place - can you say sealed concrete or heated garage - or maybe moving to Arizona. Specific: Removing the moisture trapping sand which has been kicked up to between headlight bucket and fender sheetmetal in front, or between fender and frame toward rear, making repairs, and installing a barrier to prevent reoccurance.
My other idea: Repair using metal not suseptable to rusting (DeLorean had it right!).
"High heat" from the ehaust system doesn't not itself cause rust on the undercarriage...the exhaust system heat actually serves to cook away the rust producing moisture, not promote it. Exhaust systems themselves get hot enough to promote rusting sure, but the (much reduced) heat they transfer to underbody structure actually serves to cook away moisture...not such a bad thing!
Cheers
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The range on an ES probably goes from < $500 to about $6500. Possibly more for a truly special car. Of that value my rough guess would be:
60% - body condition - rust and crash damage/repairs or lack thereof
20% - interior condition - dash, leather on seats, rubber seals
20% - mechanical condition - the easiest for most of us to fix.
You really have to see the car in person to get a feel for how nice it is. While they are rare - they aren't so rare that a dog is still worth a lot - they are no Ferrari. And the ES wagons aren't worth quite as much as the coupes - despite the greater practicality. In the end the price is what the market will bear.
Check on eBay - there are usualy a fair number of 1800's of various conditions and years going under the hammer there - look at the pic's and prices to get an idea of how much others are willing to pay for one currently.
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The 4 things you should look out for are rust, rust, rust, condition of
the interior and condition of the fuel injection system. Sorry, that's 5.
But anyhow that is what you should check most carefully assuming it drives
OK.
--
George Downs, The "original" Walrus3, Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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