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The Volvo REBORN 200 88

posted by  someone claiming to be Roguls on  Wed Dec 13 08:13 CST 2000 [RELATED]

This could take a while, but I've gotta vent, and need some help.

Ok, so I was in Long Island and was hit by a dumb teenager and her big Toyota 4runner, mashing my passenger side a couple days ago. My baby, washed and waxed more than ten times a year, and scrutinized under the hood, is now looking like an old, beatup volvo. Only good thing is that this oblivious-to-the-rules-of-the-road teenager will pay for ALL the damage. This is what happens when I'm on a main road and another car, from the side road, decides to pull out into the middle of my car.

Anyway, I had gotten anxious with my baby (88 240GL, 172k), and decided to shop around for a bmw 325is. Couldn't come up with one in my price range, but man, to have a manual and a powerful engine AND RWD.....

So, I've decided to make my baby into practically a new car. Big wheels, new performance cam, and, most importantly, swap the automatic for an m47. Yes, I know, the m47 is weaker than the m46. But I don't want to deal with overdrive, and I take care of my car, so it won't be an issue.

So, longwindedly (is that an f'ing word?), I need some help with the swap. I've never worked on Trannys. I am a do-it-yourselfer, and work well with tools. I will have help on the project, but from people who don't know much about Volvos. What I'm asking for here is first, diagrams and explanations of how the Transmission (m47) works. All the parts exploded on paper so I know what I've got. Then, maybe step by step instructions on how to do the swap. I know Rene in Canada has a website, but I've gotta do a lot more homework than just read that site to do this correctly. I'm not doing the swap till mid-summer probably, but any info on where to start would be greatly appreciated now.

My father bellows: "What the hell do you want to do that for? Thats a lot of goddamn work for an old car! I don't want anything to do with transmissions!"

He's only into maintaining cars so they run; his cars have never been his "baby."

Thank you for reading, and any info.







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    re: REBORN, now "I'm a moron" 200 88

    posted by  someone claiming to be chris herbst on  Wed Dec 13 09:58 CST 2000 [RELATED]

    Oops... DUH, I just woke up (again), still groggy. Disregard my LAST post.

    I'm a moron... I thought you wanted to swap an M46 for an M47.... I've taken on some stupid projects, but THAT one would really be pointless!

    Good luck with the AUTO TO MANUAL conversion!

    Chris







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    Re: The Volvo REBORN 200 88

    posted by  someone claiming to be chris herbst on  Wed Dec 13 09:53 CST 2000 [RELATED]

    How did you get an '88 240 with an M46 to begin with?

    If you're going to bump up the power on the engine, you really don't want the M47. The 46 was mated to all high-power engines (turbos) up until the nineties. The M47 was ONLY available in n.a. engines.

    Also M47s don't have a speedo drive gear. The rear axle is where the signal for the speedo comes from.

    And save the M46 so you can put it back in when the M47 dies :)







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    Re: The Volvo REBORN 200 88

    posted by  someone claiming to be r haire on  Wed Dec 13 09:23 CST 2000 [RELATED]

    Actually, this is not too big a deal if you have the donor car or a nice pick and pull nearby. First, I have no idea why you want an exploded diagram of an M47 to do this job. OK, so it helps to practice in the pick and pull a couple of times. The tranny comes out in 2-3 hours, rear main seal, clutch, flywheel, pilot bearing, cross member,tranny mount and new tranny back in in 2-3 more and the rest of the time will be clutch cable, pedal, driveshaft which will add up to hours of fiddling but still it sounds like an ambitious weekend project. The hardest part will be getting all the parts and an M47 you trust with a good "history" of donor car maintainance, miles, general appearance.

    With an '88 you do not have to worry about a bell housing impulse sender at least. So I think you can use any M47.

    The only trick to know is you CAN get the top bell housing bolts and starter bolt out with 2-3 ft. extensions on a half inch drive socket set. There is enough room and flex to get them even though it may not look that way.







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    Re: The Volvo REBORN 200 88

    posted by  someone claiming to be Paul Seminara on  Wed Dec 13 08:55 CST 2000 [RELATED]

    BTDT. No write lenghthy up (sorry), but available for questions.

    Not so hard if you've got space, heat (summer!), time and money AND a donor car (very important) right there. The "donor" will have the bits you need. Replace all the exterior moving parts...from center bearing to u-joints (duh) all the way to new seals on the tranny, your engine rear main seal, throwup and pilot bearing, clutch, cable, speedo cable, tranny mount,etc, flywheel - resurface - renew all this crap.

    Even Bentley has an exploded view of the M47. Use Amsoil Series 2000 75W-90 and overfill by "tipping" car.

    Sounds like my Pop too, except he says: "what the hell do you want with a(old) Volvo...."







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      Re: The Volvo REBORN 200 88

      posted by  someone claiming to be karl on  Thu Dec 14 10:51 CST 2000 [RELATED]

      Paul -

      Question on the Amsoil Series 2000 75W-90: why gear lube? The Volvo mechanics I've talked to around DC say they use ATF, which is also specified in Bentley, unless I've read it wrong. Is this a matter of personal preference or is there some data or experience to suggest earlier failure of the M47 with ATF?

      Many thanks,







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        Re: The Volvo/Dragon REBORN 200 88

        posted by  someone claiming to be Paul Seminara on  Thu Dec 14 14:43 CST 2000 [RELATED]

        There is no recorded empirical evidence to suggest that using ATF Type F will cause early failures in the M47 (or M46). In other words the fluid doesn't kill the trannies....the design does.

        That said (written?) you can EXTEND the life of the well known to be fragile M47 by using a synthetic lubricant. Synthetic ATF if you live in truly frost bound places. Or a lighter SYNTHETIC gear oil any place that does get to -30°F or below. This idea did not originate with me. Someone or Redline oil thought MTL synthetic gear oil would work well in the M46/M47. That person was right...it improves shift feel dramatically and you get vastly improved gear life, better flow, less resistance, super long lube life...all the beni's of synthetic gear oil.

        Again never try this with petroleum based gear oil.

        Also remember that gear oil weights are not equivalent to motor oil weights. Compare properties of petroleum ATF to a good synthetic 75W-90 gear oil.

        MTL is about a 70W-85 gear oil. MT-90 is a 75W-90 gear oil. Both are synthetic, both made by Redline and both recommended by Redline for the M46/M47.

        Amsoil Series 2000 75W-90 has flow properties almost in between the two. The pour point is -51°F. Most all properties are the same as ATF F PLUS again all the hugely benificial attributes of synthtetic gear oil. I was just driving at 14°F with NO problems shifting in and out of OD. I guess I can't recommend it strong enough in the M47. It will extend the life, I have NO doubt about that.







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          Re: The Volvo/Dragon REBORN 200 88

          posted by  someone claiming to be karl on  Fri Dec 15 05:32 CST 2000 [RELATED]

          Paul -

          Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I live in DC, where it regularly freezes but never gets truly cold. I have been running Mobil synthetic ATF in my M47; much improved feeling to the shifts, but some of that may be due to the fact that the fluid probably hadn't been changed before 150K.

          Anyway, I'll take your Amsoil advice to heart. Have changed the fluid twice now as I was having problems getting into 1st/2nd; two changes later first gear is only rarely a problem, and never second. I was amazed that the fluid made that much difference - no more getting honked at when the light turns green while fishing for first! The M47 must indeed be delicate.

          BTW, how do these M47s usually fail?







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            Re: The Volvo/Dragon REBORN 200 88

            posted by  someone claiming to be Paul Seminara on  Sat Dec 16 01:32 CST 2000 [RELATED]

            There is a good description of one mode of M47 failure in the 700/900 FAQ's.

            No matter what fluid you decide on, it's starting to seem that the "tilt the car and overfill" makes sense for the M47.







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              Re: The Volvo/Dragon REBORN 200 88

              posted by  someone claiming to be Karl Wittnebel on  Sat Dec 16 04:57 CST 2000 [RELATED]



              I'll do the "tilt and fill" for sure. Did some FAQ reading on the m47 last night; seems from further examination of my car's behavior that the synchro for gear #1 is probably quite weak, but that's easily addressed by doing a quick shift in/out of fourth before putting the car in first. Also adjusted the clutch, which seemed to help a bit with first gear. Apart from that, I may have some linkage problems, as occasionally the car refuses to go into ANY gear; have no idea from FAQ reading or experience how to address likage issues.

              Thanks for your input.







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    Re: The Volvo REBORN 200 88

    posted by  someone claiming to be Jim Bowers on  Wed Dec 13 08:51 CST 2000 [RELATED]

    Ah to be young, single, full of energy, resources and with time for these things. I have to take care of a few items on the "Honey Do"/home list in between "my" projects.

    Only recomendation I can give is that some $ spent getting the "Volvo Green" manuals for your hardware seems like a good first step. On the web page there is also a listing for the parts catalog. See http://www.kencook.com/vcna/volvo.html

    Good luck and have fun!







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    Re: The Volvo REBORN 200 88

    posted by  someone claiming to be Rene Svastal on  Wed Dec 13 08:34 CST 2000 [RELATED]

    Wow. Thanks for the reference. Maybe I should make the site more presentable if people actually use it. My dad sounds the same as yours. It's hard to build a hi perf B23ET under cover. Good luck with the project and ask as many questions as you can.

    Rene






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