I posted the following message on Forum 'opinion', and Rob Hanley suggested me to post it here. Hope you can help me, caz I really need more opinions on whether I should buy it.

Add more information about what I want:

1. I wanna a safe and reliable car, if the car of this situation will not be safe or reliable, I will give it up. Also, I hope it is easy to maintain this car. ( Volvo stopped producing it in 1993)

2. I will drive a lot next year, mostly high way. I think this car is suitable for long distance driving.

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Hi, volvo lovers:

Today, I had a look at a 1991 Volvo 240 Wagon, black, with 125,000 miles. The owner asked for $3,000

The following is my impression:

a. Engine is good, except for a little irregular noise. There is no any differce when driving at 80mile/hr and at 40mile/hr. Smooth!

b. My legs feel really hot during driving. (Why?)

c. When the car was stopped, it was shaking. (Brake or suspensiong system maybe have some problem.)

d. A/C can not work. ( Is it expensive to get it fixed? How much?)

e. Heavy rust at the hinges of all doors. There must be more at the chasis.

f. Wheels are not so new as I expected. :-)

g. Some dents on the top. ( but, it doesn't matter )

Questions:

1. Please give me some suggestion whether it is worth buying.

2. What else should I pay attention to?

3. Some potential problems according to the above descriptions.

4. After I buy it, which part need to be changed in short time?

5. The cost to run this car in the future?

6. Car insurance of this kind of car?

7. Mile /gal?

Thanks a lot!

Volvo 240

Thanks to everybody-- Colorado Tim, Ron Gonzalez, Michael, Brian, chris herbst...

Tell the truth, I am not familar with cars. And, the first reason I wanna buy a volvo is safty, while the first reason I do NOT wanna buy a volvo is the cost of maintenance, operation, etc. With your advice and experience, I think:

1. Rust is a most important problem for the car.

2. The cost of maintenance, operation are not so high as I thought. (but still high. :-( )

3. Do a VIN check to verify the car's ID. :-)

4. Drive the car with the owner to a mechanic shop, get it checked thoroghly. Also, ask for the probable price to change the old parts.

5. A/C is a crucial point. If the compressor is dead, I'd like to give up the car.

Maybe, later I can take some photos of the car and upload them on the forum. ( Is there a place I can put the photos in? ) So, every one can have a look. Also, some other new buyer can learn a lot from here.

Moreover, I have a suggestion for the host of the forum:

Can you select some typical questions and compile them together in one place, say, something like "owner's focus".

Thanks!

Volvo 240

A few more things... (I have a 91 as well as others)

The door hinges will start to rust if they've been twisted around, as in an accident. Check the car over for accident damage. It can be very hard to find. But that could possibly be the reason for the rust.

I agree with the Carfax VIN# check. It will tell you a lot.

The A/C can be easily converted on the 91, to accept R134 air conditioning. It is very easy and cheap if you find the right shop or do it yourself. A/C will not be your costliest problem or concern.

As far as driving... my 240 gets about 1500 miles a week. They like that :)

That's a pretty big question to ask, especially since none of us have even seen the car. And this board is, well, shall we say a little pro-Volvo biased, so it may not be a fair question. I'll try to answer some of your concerns.

1. Safe - you bet. With two young kids, it's the primary reason we bought ours. Back in 1990 rear headrests were unheard of except in Volvos. Apparently North American car makers only believed front-seat passengers would get whiplash in a rear-end collision. Even today, NA car makers skirt around the safety rules by claiming SUVs are trucks, not passenger vehicles. (Ralph Nader, are you out there?)

As for reliable, our sedan has been really good up until recently. The fuel injection computer died suddenly (fairly common), and all the rear bushings are shot (common). And the engine was knocking badly, so I rebuilt it.

> a. Engine is good, except for a little irregular noise.

This genre of 240's are known for making themselves, well, known. However, if any knocking or other unusual sounds persists when the engine is warm, be concerned. The exception is noise from excessive valve clearance which can be corrected easily.

> b. My legs feel really hot during driving. (Why?)

Who was with you when you took the test drive? Does your wife know? Kidding. Okay, maybe the heater controls are busted and the heater was on (it blows down from below the steering wheel column, not from the trans hump like most NA cars). The exhaust runs on the opposite side, so that wouldn't be it.

> c. When the car was stopped, it was shaking. (Brake or suspensiong

> system maybe have some problem.)

Okay, I'm confused. What was shaking - your leg? Kidding. Define shaking; idling rough or brake pedal pulsating. Brake pedal pulsating is no big deal - get some new rotors. (Don't bother getting them turned. You just end up taking a lot of meat off of them, and they heat up and warp even quicker next time.) Engine shake could be a concern (uneven compression, etc.).

> d. A/C can not work. ( Is it expensive to get it fixed? How much?)

No comment. I bought mine new without A/C, on the west coast of Canada where you might need A/C, oh, about twice a year. Now that I live in eastern Ontario, I'm regretting that decision. Mind you, the heated seats no longer seem frivilous!

> e. Heavy rust at the hinges of all doors. There must be more at the

> chasis.

Probably. Now THAT would concern me. I have almost no evidence of rust, even in this salt-infested city. Check the rest of the car thoroughly. I can't even tell you where the weak spots are.

> f. Wheels are not so new as I expected. :-)

Were you expecting new wheels or new tires?

> g. Some dents on the top. ( but, it doesn't matter )

Roof sex. Put it out of your mind - it doesn't matter.

> Questions:

> 1. Please give me some suggestion whether it is worth buying.

Your call. You get to look, feel and test drive the beast, not us.

> 2. What else should I pay attention to?

Your wife. And your kids.

> 3. Some potential problems according to the above descriptions.

a) Engine is good, except for some regular noise

b) Your legs feel normal after driving

c) When the car is stopped, onlookers start shaking

d) A/C starts working. 4/60 A/C, that is.

e) Rust. More rust.

f) Hubcap centers fall off. New-design hubcaps are one piece.

g) Roof sex. Keeps the neighbors awake.

> 4. After I buy it, which part need to be changed in short time?

Depends on the history of the car. Maybe the most common things are fixed. Fuel pump relays (cheap), fuel pumps ($$), rear bushings ($), radios ($), engine computers ($$$), they all seem to show up on this board time after time.

> 5. The cost to run this car in the future?

Depends on where you live. If you live where I do, where Volvos are not all that common, you live and die by the Volvo dealership. You could ship parts in from somewhere else, but you have to chose between getting the car going tomorrow or possibly next week. And genuine Volvo parts are not cheap. Plus, the older the car is, the less likely the dealer will have your part in stock. I usually have to wait a day to get mine shipped in from the Toronto warehouse. Mind you, if I lived in Toronto I wouldn't have to wait. But then again, I'd have to live in Toronto...

> 6. Car insurance of this kind of car?

Depends on where you live, who insures you, your driving record, the coverage you want, etc., etc. I pay a third of what I used to with better coverage just by moving halfway across the country. Check with your agent.

> 7. Mile /gal?

I usually get around 10L/100km, or about 28mpg combined city/highway with a 5-speed. Not all that great, but not bad either, considering the car is a tank. And I'm a lead-foot; I pulled that upshift indicator light out a long time ago, and push tin well over the posted limit down the freeway every weekend.

On the plus side, I can say that I've gotten off with more warnings for traffic violations, instead of the points I used to get!

But in all seriousness, if the kids have to go anywhere by car, it's in the Volvo. And that's enough for me.

One final note - keep an eye out for that rust. Almost everything else can be fixed.

"I usually get around 10L/100km, or about 28mpg combined city/highway with a 5-speed. Not all that great, but not bad either, considering the car is a tank."

28mpg would be GREAT, in my opinion. However, 10L/100km = 23.5mpg. I get around 20mpg (12L/100km) in my '87 244 w/manual trans doing mainly short distance driving.

Hi

I'm no expert (far from it!) but I have been slowly restoring a 1986 Volvo 240 that I bought last year. I really love the car (I'm a Euro-car person all the way -- and this is as close as I'm going to get to a small Mercedes on my budget). The car is solid, comfortable, yet easy to maneuver in city traffic. However, I've learned a few hard lessons along the way. Maybe my experiences can help you...

1) I've found that my Volvo is not a difficult car for mechanics to work on or get parts for.

2) As far as safety goes, Volvo has always been about as safe a car in a wreck as there is, right?

3) There are a few things that typically wear out and may need to be replaced. Things to look for:

Engine wiring harness - This is routed very close to the (hot) engine, which slowly bakes the wiring insulation to the point that it crumbles. It's a big job to replace the harness (~$800), and my experience tells me that it's just not worth making small repairs on -- if it starts to go, bite the bullet and replace it. Symptoms: Dash warning lights (battery, oil, etc) stay on even with car driving. Inexplicable stall-outs or no-start conditions. Battery won't stay charged or alternator dies.

Fuel tank pre-pump - If car stalls when fuel level in tank is low, very often the small fuel pre-pump in the gas tank has failed. Replacement is about $350. Mine was completely dead. Replacing it noticeably smoothed out the ride and added a couple of mpg.

Make sure the previous owner(s) changed the fuel filter! I've been told that it should be replaced every 30k miles. The fuel filter on my car is apparently so old that nobody can say how long it's been on there -- and my car has over 250,000 miles on it! This is not a good sign. I hope replacing it will help improve my car some more.

See if the previous owner saved maintenance/repair records. If you know what's been fixed you can make a good guess as to how well the car was cared for. Don't make the mistake I made and buy a car that had no maintenance records at all. What you don't know can really hurt you.

> c. When the car was stopped, it was shaking. (Brake or suspensiong

> system maybe have some problem.)

When I got my Volvo, it was idling slightly rough. This got much worse after a few months, to the point where the whole car would shake from the rough idling. It turns out that one of the fuel injectors had gone defective, spraying an uncontrolled jet of fuel into its cylinder. This would cause that cylinder to be flooded when the car was started causing rough idle from the engine running on only 3 cylinders, but the engine would run OK after it warmed up (defective injector's cylinder would burn off excess fuel and start firing properly). It turns out that the spark plug in that cylinder was always fouling. Replacing the bad injector with a new one immediately helped -- my gas mileage went from about 19 mpg to 23 mpg (highway). A few more repairs now have me at about 25 mpg (highway), which I gather is almost right for a 240 with a manual transmission.

> d. A/C can not work. ( Is it expensive to get it fixed? How much?)

I understand that AC repairs run the gamut from pretty inexpensive (no more freon left in system) to almost not worth it at all (blown compressor, blower, or other critical parts).

> e. Heavy rust at the hinges of all doors. There must be more at the

> chasis.

Pull up the carpets in the driver area and in the back seat area. Check the floorboards for excessive rust. You won't be happy if the floorboards rust out from under you. It can't hurt to check if you can.

If you want to really know what the mileage is, get the VIN number and run a check on it on www.carfax.com ($15 to check one car, $20 to check as many cars as you want for 30 days). I found out that my Volvo didn't have 119,000 miles on it, it had 238,000 :-(. Too bad I didn't check it *before* I bought it!

Please don't take these cautions as evidence that Volvo's aren't good cars -- Quite to the contrary, I really like my old car. But a car that is well cared for all its life will be a lot less problematic in its old age than a car that was neglected in its youth. It appears to me that Volvo's are extremely durable, so if you find an old brick in nice shape and you can see from its maintenance records (and Carfax!) that it was well cared for, I think you really can't go wrong. Best of luck!

Ron G

not sure what you ment...shaking when stopped. if while stopping, might be the rotors which arnt a big deal. the car at that mileage if well taken care of should run smooth / without hesitation (sounds like this one does). the mpg should be around 25 at least (i reciently got 29 mpg on my 1990 244). the insurance should be on the low side of cheap, comparatably speaking. the car, fundamently, is as safe as you'll ever get. the rust does bother me however. look underneath the rear passanger side doors (floor pan). aside from that area being rusted through, across the entire car, the intregraty of the cars safety is probably still there (i hate rust). if you're not mechanicly inclined, take it to a volvo shop (hopefully not a dealer) and have them go over it...about $45.00 in my neck of the woods. if all is fundamently well...and considering everything is negotiable...offer him low $2K and go from there...you're not too bad off though at $3K (but i hate rust).

best of luck on your new pruchase.

c. tim