Time for a new battery. Of course the stock group size is a 47. Moving up here into cold country I was wondering if there is a larger group size that will fit and lock into the battery tray. There is a location notch about 2" up from the one that works with the 47. Like to find that battery for the assumed extra cranking amps.
Thanks all
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

I've been using group 48s (or whatever they're now called) for a long time in 240s
.

An interesting sidebar is that I just changed out an OE Volvo battery in a 1993 sedan with only 120Kmi. on it. Imagine, 29 years of service from an auto Battery! It still was kicking when I pulled it. I'm stunned.

Oh yeah, I bought the car in 2007 with 66Kmi. on it. (THANK YOU SO MUCH, MARGARET, FOR SELLING ME SUCH A BEAUTIFUL CAR!), so even if the battery had been replaced right before I bought it, its life is no less stunning.

Richie (Near The Burgh)

PS - If you can't find a Group 48, a group 24F will fit with some custom hold-down work.

A word of caution------A few years back I purchased a one-owner '79 244 which had been sitting for 10 years. The positive battery terminal was toward the outside of the car, near the outside edge of the hood, and at some point had shorted out against the hood brace, melting a dime-size hole in it. The battery was still anchored securely in its tray so I don't know how or when it happened. I bought new cables & turned the battery around so the positive was toward the engine, where it had more vertical clearance between the hood. Some of those rubber terminal covers are a good idea too.

" The positive battery terminal was toward the outside of the car, near the outside edge of the hood, and at some point had shorted out against the hood brace, melting a dime-size hole in it. "

When I purchased my 1981 and 1982 both had a hard plastic cover that clip over the + terminal.

This is what I thought was not so good about the old orientation.

Crash. Could have been carbecue too.




--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

To me "drink responsibly" means don't spill it.

The thumbs up I just gave your post is equally as much for the quote as the pics -lol. We safety conscious Volvo types need to keep such things in mind whenever changing from the original engineering or, better still, trying to improve on it.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now

Yeah, but imagine if this had been a LiIon battery...

I was once told that lead acid batteries remain popular in the car industry for SLI purposes because of their relative benign failure modes in extreme conditions. The only real drawback is the same thing that brought down the Hindenburg airship (aka Zeppelin), combustible gas (although in fully sealed batteries that's less of a potential issue).

Other failure modes like overcharging boil the battery dry and makes it go open circuit. A short circuit may do the same (never mind the wiring going up in flames, but that would happen with any battery system if the current isn't controlled).

I'm not saying lead acid batteries are fool proof, but in comparison to some other battery technologies, they're not that dangerous.

Hi,

Well yeah, having plastic clips on top of the terminals is fine and dandy idea, as long as they stay there, don’t crack or get lost.

I think the whole point of this thread is not only the location of the positive terminal being close to chassis ground.
How in good reasoning can they, the designers, not settle in on one simple method of holding a battery.
How many years does it take for evolution to work without logical intervention?
Apparently a very Long time?
There’s just not much going on about gravity and inertial changing up to cause all of this malarkey!

I guess there’s always two ways to do things, wrong or right and better is just as subjective?
If you make the cables a few inches longer either way you can reach posts in that vicinity, left-right or front to back ever how you spin it!
The spin thing is interesting in that I always try to a positive post away from chassis contacts, since a steel wrench makes a great conductor!
When you deal with high AC voltages space is a great thing! Look at a substation enclosure!

So in the interest of that, try to keep the positive post to the center of a 240.
FYI, You only have to remove one cable so don’t make it two, unless you want to remove the battery or clean the posts. Still the following “rule of thumbs” will apply!

It’s Easy to remember … “take away the (minus) first and put it back last.”
The symbol is there as in mathematics. “Elementary My Dear Watson, Elementary”
It will always give to a positive result of no sparks or hot wrenches!
The minus is the first and only terminal that can give you nothing everywhere else, if you are going to have something accidentally by Murphy’s law!

Now the one that really get me is the cable posts down on the front side irrespective of left or right positions.
Having a specific thin elbow wrench to loosen or tighten them was way off the mark of “engineering excellence” unless you like selling tools to dealers first!

I had one of those in a Motorhome for engine starting with all kinds of open space around.
It still used those stupid cables that reached left or right but not up to the top! Saved about a foot of wire there!
To top that off, the coach batteries (3) were stack in a slide out tray with the conventional top post batteries!
No interchangeability there to the rest of the vehicle.
A 454 CDI engine that uses a standard size car battery, as the holder dictates!
It’s Held by one 1 1/2” clamp on a battery case bottom with internal facing lips in 1986.
No extra widths like today and go figure the clamp works on both configurations. Whoops GM!
They did put in an auxiliary start solenoid, from the coach batteries on the dash, to save their bacon with me!

That is, until I put on a battery from my other six Volvos, that will also fit in the coaches sliding tray!
I made two, solid brass, right angle brackets with GM’s threaded hole on one end for their cables.
The standard lead terminals bolt directly onto the other end of the wide bracket.
It No longer requires a certain battery or jumper cables or anything else as everything clips on very easily!
No little 5/16 square hex head to try put big jumper cables onto!

The Number one reason I have never bought a car with that style battery is because it shows such obvious disrespect for the consumers.
This Motorhome was given to me and it has been one of many of my lessons to gain some wisdom!

Now you even have to look under plastic covers to see the unimaginable!

Hidden Batteries are just a “starting point” to study very carefully for the near future!

I mean, we are talking half of the vehicles value, literally gets “drained,” without any cosmetic depreciation that we are use to seeing!


Phil

“take away the (minus) first and put it back last.”

Unless it is a positive ground vehicle...

Removing the ground first is really good advice.
Greg

Which begs the question, why do we use the word "ground" when we mean "circuit common"?

“ Which begs the question, why do we use the word "ground" when we mean "circuit common"?”

You’ll have to find a philosophy discussion for that. 🤔

I'm the original owner. All is stock and that is what I would like to maintain that integrity. So although I was looking for a few more CCAs if I could get it, I wanted the lock down system to remain intact. I'll eyeball the height to make sure all is well if I upgrade to the larger battery
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

The batteries that fit 1991 240 battery tray are H5 and the larger, more CCA's H6.

As Uncle Art says, fits the tray with the lock block.

Johnson controls make a battery with low internal resistance. The rated years of service do appear to be true. tho.

Find them here using the Walmart Battery Finder.

https://www.battfinder.com/

Hope that halps.

MacDuffed in North Platte, Nebraska and further West.
--
Beh.

From what I understand about Group...it also to do with the placement and type of the Neg and Pos connections as well as case size and tab configuration.
Top Post type, pos on right--neg left, side connectors....

For example my 1980 244 with the old style metal battery tray uses 24C---type now basically sold for older Ford farm trucks. The Poles are reversed--because the 80 batt cables have the POS near the fender----Later 240s moved the NEG cable there. The 24 also had a lip on all four sides at the bottom of the case that fits that hold down tray design. So 24 -- 24C--same bat but the C has the pole position reversed.


For the frigid north, what you want to look at is the CCA Cold Cranking Amps.
But remember you're just cranking an old tech 4 cyl engine and powering an Old tech EFI computer and fuel pump--with the oil viscosity being the main drag.

There is a newer battery tech... absorbed glass-mat (AGM) battery ...designed to meet the needs of "modern cars" meaning all the electronics that have to power up for the car to run all the sensors not to mention all that LCD screen menus stuff that has replaced switches and knobs.

Interstate Batteries---- I'm in Md but the first one I bought lasted 8 Years....replaced in 2018 and that one still fine.
The price has gone UP. I got the MT-47/H5 for $95, a the Interstate distribution warehouse---which happens to be about 5 miles from my house.
When I pulled the old battery out for them to recycle, they said wow that is an old battery....haven't seen one of those for years

Model: ___-47/H5 The MTX-47/H5 is the AGM---the most costly---$200+

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/product-search-results/1988-volvo-245-l423l.

THIS LINK MAY NOT GIVE YOU THE Info.
It May say Battery not Found and ask for you to re-enter the Make and Model and Year.

The "look for your battery' screener only goes back to 1988 for Volvo 240...but you would be entering 1989.----

The Mxx-47/H5 batteries will fit 240s all the way back when Volvo changed the Battery Tray/Hold Down design. The Screener just dosen't list it. If you enter a year earlier than 1988 the only Models that show are 740s

As art mentioned, yes, the 'Group' is the physical spec for the battery casing. That includes lumps and bumps used in mounting of the battery as well as termination style and location.
This "H" system, does it do the same? Are there literally crossovers? Like; IS a group 47 an H6?
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

As art mentioned, yes, the 'Group' is the physical spec for the battery casing. That includes lumps and bumps used in mounting of the battery as well as termination style and location.
This "H" system, does it do the same? Are there literally crossovers? Like; IS a group 47 an H6?
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

BCI Battery Group Size Chart

BCI is the most common system used to classify battery group sizes. The following battery group size chart explains the most common BCI battery groups and their specifications.

Battery Groups Cross Reference Chart – BCI, EN, DIN Equivalents and Conversions Chart

Although BCI is the most common battery group classification system in the United States, others do exist. EN and DIN are other battery group classification systems that you will sometimes see in owner’s manuals or when shopping for batteries. If you can’t find the right battery in the listed group, then you can use this car battery size chart to find an equivalent using another battery classification system.

https://batterygroupexpert.com/battery-group-size-chart-and-cross-reference-table/

I don't know the user manuals that came with North American models, but my Dutch manual just lists three possible batteries that were available at the time:
- Tudor 4249
- Noack 12 FB 55
- Varta 254

Curiously, capacity is then listed as follows:
450 A/90 min without ABS
440 A/85 min with ABS

You can see that these were batteries that needed to be maintained as they go on to give specific gravities of the electrolyte depending on the state of charge.

If you enter an older Volvo---pre 1988 which is the 240 search limit--and Choose 740 you will get a wider selection....which includes the above mentioned H5.

So they should fit your 240.

Mxx-48/H6 series has some higher CCA batteries---up to 760

Best: MTP-48/H6-1 $174.95srp Group Size H6 730CCA

"From what I understand about Group...it also to do with the placement and type of the Neg and Pos connections as well as case size and tab configuration."

Yup. I believe I used to look for 47R (reversed polarity) when the positive was closest to the fender. Or was it the other way around...
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan belt and leaky tire.

Hey Tony, nice to see you here.

About 10 or more years ago I found no Group 47 batteries at Walmart, where I tend to buy them. They went to the H5 designation, I think. Could be H6 will fill your tray, I'm not sure, but the important point to me was the shape at the bottom of the case allowing it to lock in, and the H5 has this. Check out Walmart, because you can look at them all without asking for help.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.

Just did the same. Not sure what's up with the new designation. GROUP vs H or T. The H battery literally had the BCI 47 on the label. I don't get it
3 year free replacement as compared to the very expensive Tractor Supply battery which only had a 2 year.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

I was in Walmart for some ginger tea. Not that far from the batteries. What really surprised me was the price. $139 for this H5. I bought one from this same rack in August for $88. Also, there was an H8 there, way too long for us, but all the H-series had the same flange for mounting. And now that you mention it, I see the BCI designation printed right on the label.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

What do you call a fish with no eye?
Fsh.

Yup $139.
Looking back in my records, I bought a delco 2 years ago for same price. It only came with 1 year full replacement. Buying this one still hurt but I expected the price.
Gone is the days of getting returned/ nothing wrong batteries for $40. My friends service station was selling these. He used to get these from his distributor. I never had an issue with them.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

My last opinion on this.
1987 245---bought in 1997 w/ 103K

3/30/2002---replaced the bat that came with, after 5 years with Battery Warehouse 60mo wararnty. That one died on schedule

01/xx/2007 - replaced that with and Interstate M47 5 Year Can't find the receipt but was way less than 90 bucks.----lasted 11 years

8/20/2018 - replaced that with Interstate M-47/H5.....price $89.95 +tax---$95.95 5 Year. No problems so far, even though I only drive about 20Miles a week these days. So almost 4 years and counting down to 5---August 2023 ---could likely die due to lack of driving enough to charge-'er-up real good. So the tombstone will read_ Died from COVID and lack of exercise (joke). If it does die prematurely.

With the prior Interstate I did 200/wk commuting plus 250+++ weekends to the Maryland/WV mts running rivers in season
This included one Alt brush fail that drained the battery to zero --- on I70...running on empty. June 2010. The battery that lasted 11 years...2007 to Aug 2018.

So it's not the Initial Cost---it's the prorated cost....

I've played the WallyMart game with my 75 wagon and 1980 Sedan--basically because of the reversed poles and the Case requirement Grp 24C. Don't know how may times I spent finding only batteries with no lips at the bottom of the case---then the Internet didn't exist---you used the Yellow Pages and the phone.
These Batteries always died at/a bit over the warranty expiration---I got what I paid for.

Tried Interstate with the 87 and their 5y warranty.
That battery exceeded the Warranty Period and went "to Eleven"----like those Spinal Tap amplifiers.

YOUTUBE CLIP---SPINAL TAP
THIS AMP GOES TO ELEVEN (This is Spinal Tap)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMSV4OteqBE


So I'm a happy Interstate camper. Though both of those Interstates these were made by Johnson Controls. No Longer.

"The Brookfield Business Partners, along with Exide Technologies, through their partnership with Interstate Battery System of America, Inc., make Interstate batteries. Previously, Johnson Controls was responsible for manufacturing 60% of Interstate Batteries. Currently, Brookfield and Exide are the makers ..

If you decide to merge onto the Interstate, try to find an Interstate distribution warehouse ---cuts out the retailer's markup and may shave a few bucks off the price.....

Better
MT-47/H5-1
$154.95srp
Group Size H5
650 Cold Cranking Amps (CCA)
The Interstate MT series delivers reliable battery life and enhanced performance in hot to moderate climates for an affordable price.
24 Months Warranty

Free / 5 Year Performance Warranty

ps been here BBrd since 1997--so the beginning---used to be CB but somewhere along Jarod's server lost me......well when I tried to log-in and get a new password it told me that Handle was already in use----duh---so after a stint of "someone claiming to be CB" , I went with CeeBee1. Art, Lucid, Kitty, Volvo From HELL you and many more---helped me get that newfangled 1987 EFI sorted out---having only dealt with B20-B21 K-Jets.

My car life: 68 WV Beetle w/sunroof...got run off the NJ Turnpike by a Semi---lesson learned---Need a Faster Car.
Sticking with German...
1968 BMW 1600, 1972 BMW 2002 bored to ti specs- pulled off the Solex carbs--pain in the-- and put on a Weber 2 brl. my forever love that got taken in the divorce.

Frenchy---1971 Peugeot 304-front wheel drive,

American, I now own a house -- rehabing --1976 Ford F100.

Volvos---tried Volvos mainly because all the priors Rusted out. Yes the Ford.
First Volvo 1975 245- B20, 1980 244...both used with under 80K on the clock.
Then 1987 245---when the 1975 wagon rusted beyond 'safe' to drive.

As a teen I learned to drive on my dad's 1954 Plymouth Plaza--3spd on the column--Baby Blue.

Cheers----it's always a crap shoot--(used cars and parts)---but then sometimes--'them bones danced for (you)tonight'

On the Blaupunk cassette player--in the '87--4 speakers---fully racked with a selection of kayaks--heading West. The old guys Covid dream---post f#%cist Hope.

Murder Tonight in the Trailer Park----
"Crosstown at the Waterton
George Evans is sitting tall and tight
Buying drinks for all the regulars
Bragging about how them bones
Danced for him tonight

There's been a murder
In the trailer park tonight

Cowboy Junkies - Murder Tonight In The Trailer Park - 8/2/2008 - Newport Folk Festival (Official)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuUe2nP6kbk


The full Enchilada
Cowboy Junkies - Full Concert - 08/02/08 - Newport Folk Festival (OFFICIAL)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuUe2nP6kbk

Hey Art!
I'll look. I thought H6 was a group 48 which has the same lock-in bottom
but is almost 12" long. So it goes beyond the box.. The fan shroud will
hold it in. But No, not doing that. I'll check the H5.
Great. hearing from you and that you are still out there.

Tractor Supply Co.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-t-h6-automotive-battery?cm_vc=-10005

$159.99
Power up your car with Traveller. This quality automotive battery is reliable, compact and compatible with a range of makes and models.

Cold cranking amps: 730
BCI group size: H6
Fits in various makes, models and years
Terminal Type: Top Post
Reserve Capacity: 115 min
Product Length 10-15/16 in.
Warranty 2 year warranty

PIC
https://media.tractorsupply.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/1323458?$456$


This also comes in an H7 with a CCA 800
BUT
Product Length 12-13/32 in.

So the NEW numbering system H(x) v Group may be just as confused need to Check the specs- Brand Specs

_______________________________________________________________________
TSC---full available

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/search/batterie/automotive-batteries?&srch=batterie

Do you have one in your car? Or just a huge TSC fan?
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

RE TSC.

I have an Interstate in my 87 245 --- SEE MY POST (with the Thumbs Up).
I have an Exide in my 1980 that I got at TSC years ago.

I only posted that TSC link to show some higher CCA batteries----plus to add to Art's suggestion that you visit Wally Mart.

I don't know who makes the TSC Traveler brand.

Interstate used to be made by Johnson Controls.

_____________________________________________________________________________-
from the Web

"The Brookfield Business Partners, along with Exide Technologies, through their partnership with Interstate Battery System of America, Inc., make Interstate batteries. Previously, Johnson Controls was responsible for manufacturing 60% of Interstate Batteries. Currently, Brookfield and Exide are the makers ..

This is what I did years ago with both of my 240's. Take your old battery out and then remove the o.e. Volvo battery tray. Purchase a universal battery tray for about $10 with the 2 long hook bolts and strap for the top of the battery for these long bolts to secure it. Purchase a group 24 battery, it's a very common battery and usually inexpensive vs others. Do not buy a 24F , that's for Ford truck and the terminals are flip flopped. You will need to drill holes in the new plastic tray to attach it to the existing 4 o.e. Volvo bolt holes but that's ez since it's plastic. You will find that the group 24 gets the most bang for the buck with cold cranking & reserve qualities.

If I look up what ACDelco says fits in a 1992 245 with B230 they come up with both group 47 and 48 batteries. Same search for an '89 results, oddly, in only group 47 offerings... You have the same tray, I presume.
According to them, a group 48 is 10.9 in in length, not 12. They don't mention the bottom shape in the technical data, but all photos show the same type of lock in bottom. Terminal type A, positive right front.

Very helpful! Thanks
As you say they offered in later years, tray is the same. Should fit
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

I'm not familiar with the term "group size", but from capacity perspective I know that a 74(ish) Ah battery fits just fine (photo below).
Typically the 200-series was equipped with 60 Ah batteries but the 6 cylinder VW/Audi diesel engine was also an option and I'm pretty sure they got an even bigger battery (hence the big batttery tray).

With a 74 Ah battery, the plastic lock tab thingy fits in the last available notch. The size of this particular battery is specified as "± 27,5 x 17,5 x 18 cm" (or ± 10.83 x 6.89 x 7.09 in).



Looks to be close enough to a group 48 battery (if you disregard the "12 1/16 in" for length typo, that's not anywhere near the also specified 278 mm (more like 306 mm). They probably meant 11 in.
A group 91 would also fit. The 15 mm lower max height might cost a few Ahs and CCAs.

So that long dimension is a misprint? OK so the group 48 is the one in your picture? And the hold down works correctly. Thats what I'm looking for. Temps where I live stay around 5 degrees and lower for weeks. A little extra crank would be nice
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

Yes and no.
I'm in Europe, so from that perspective, BCI group sizes don't mean that much, but to be honest I don't know EN or DIN designations either. But I guess there will be deliberate similarities between the norms.

The notches in the battery tray also hint at standardisation between battery sizes.

So the 60 Ah battery I used to have in my 245 was basically identical in width and similar in height, only shorter than the 74 Ah battery I have now.
Before that, I used to have a 50 or 55 Ah Optima Orange Top. All just slid in the tray and locked with the plastic tab.

I'm not in 5 degrees (that's Fahrenheit, I presume, it's more like that value in Celcius here right now), but I did buy the biggest (but also cheapest) flooded SLI battery I could find which set me back about 73 Euros. This is the largest size that will fit and seems to correspond with BCI group 48 best.
For better CCAs, my guess is that AGMs are the best way to go. That Orange Top certainly had way more CCAs than a similar capacity flooded cell SLI battery.