Howdy everyone!

My 1989 245s M47 has started making a bit of a whine in neutral. I wanted to start by changing the fluid. The owners manual says to use type F ATF. Are we still thinking that is the best bet are there other fluids out there that would be better?

Thanks!

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

I worry the whine in neutral. Certain it is a whine?

Year and miles?

May be the clutch works. More like a breathy grindy growly sound in neutral with full clutch pedal release.

Do you or a prior owner maintain a depressed clutch pedal like stop lights and RxR crossings? Wears out the throwout bearing fast and other bits. Use the pedal to engage into and release from a gear.

Have you adjusted the clutch cable? As the clutch wears, the clutch cable free play at the throwout arm gets used up maintain clutch cable tension and preventing full clutch engagement.

M47 will die in the presence of Dexron, Mercon, and and generic ATF. May last longer if synthetic. Yet don't use these fluids.

Ford "Type F" synthetic. I use the Amsoil Super Shift® Racing Transmission Fluid SAE 10W ARTQT-EA

https://www.amsoil.com/p/super-shift-racing-transmission-fluid-sae-10w-art/

The specifications list Ford "Type F" compliance. Used in one.

Other uses Redline as other folks list here.

All work fine.

Volvo specified a fluid for M47 and other gear boxes. The part number may have been superseded. A Brickboard and Turbobricks board member vvpete mentions the fluid in multiple posts.
A post regarding the proper oil for your M47 II transmission fluid from vvpete, turbobricks and brickboard member:

http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1537674/220/240/260/280/m47_went_crunch_5spd.html

vvpete indicates the correct fluid for that Volvo M47 II transmission is Volvo part number 1161645.

https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/volvo-transmission-o-1161645

You can search for Volvo and 1161645 and find other vendors.

Depending on your year Volvo 240 with M47, one or both of the (fill / drain) plugs has a magnet. So clean both plugs of silver iron bits drawn from the circulating fluid.

Clean the cleaning the sealing surfaces of plug, washer, M47. Some will suggest the use of new crush washers under the sealing plug surfaces, discarding the factory or prior washer install.

The Volvo 700/900 non-Turbo (normally aspired, not aspried!) used M47 also. So please read through this article, learn about the overfill method.

Also, know how to properly lift and settle the 240 unibody in jack stands using the jack points on a level surface unless you mean to use a repair service.

Copy and paste URL into new tab or window or click FAQ at the top of each brickboard page!

Transmission: Manual, Clutch
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/TransmissionManual.htm

Questions?

Hope that halps!!!! Happy Caturday!!!!!







Mah, the Volvo 240 is here!!!



--
Beh.

Thanks for the replies,

Car info: Second owner, 230k miles. Clutch is fairly new and I had the flywheel machined properly. So the clutch actually grabs like it should!

It makes an awful lot of noise at idle with your foot off the clutch. I am sure it is bearings, too. If I were to get in there I would also want to replace the bearing cage (which usually wears pretty badly) and all the blocking rings (synchros) but I am unaware of any supplier for those, so my thinking was to change fluid in hopes of buying time till I can put something else in.

Sound reasonable? Do we have suppliers for syncros and bearing cages?

Thanks!

Andrew

Hi.
The subject line is correct!

I can give you something to ponder over while you are learning about your transmission.
I was in on the threads that Kitty is referencing and there was a lot of things learned about the M47!

In the process of BCG’s two transmissions, he managed to salvage one and I think he was contemplating what he would eventually do with the other as a spare.

I’m sort of in the same predicament as I had an extra one stashed out of a 1990.
It was a random PNP special, a Tool Kit Member sale, as I got a complete engine with accessories and transmission for $500, while also including, the two ECM’s and harness! This was about ten years ago of course!

The Bad I needed to change out came in a 1993 that I had drove about 5,000 miles before I racked it up to checked out a small noise in low and third gear developing quickly!
I found, what I think, was like a normal engine oil in it! That’s it, No gear oil smell or ATF.
The PO, She said she had a new clutch put in a few months earlier.
I think they put in the wrong oil by accident, since she said, an independent shop was used during the sale! She had no records of whom she had do work or when? Her husband had died.
That only worried me a tiny bit because I had spares!

I plainly missed it or they did a number on it!
It actually had a truly Branded Volvo clutch in there, so that was good!
So, I’m mystified when or what mechanics did the oil trick?
I still got an excellent car as it was great inside and out! So, it about time I got bit just a little!

I’m in the process of an experiment with that 1990 transmission versus another one, in my 1991 car.
It’s approaching 300 K in mileage.
The transmission turns just fine.
I have put the last hundred thousand miles on in it in the last 15 years.
I have always used the old standard of Type F ATF up to the last few years only.
A few years ago, I got concerned about some threads I read!
They wanted to get oil up higher in the gear box when in use.
I started to filling it the little extra as recommended by a several Bricksters in so many threads!

I also started thinking about the term “Friction Modifiers” in other fluids. What does that mean?
My best idea is that it tracks or clings onto the gears better!
Lucas has had little hand cranked gear displays, for years on parts houses counters, to play with while waiting. I use think it was like the old STP product as it went into engine oil only!
Never really was overwhelmed with that Lucas product to use it much! Again, I only experimented with it! I saw no difference.

Then, I came across another Lucas Oli product made for manual transmissions, using fluids, instead of a true gear oil! This stuff is an additive.
Since the Type F works in my several M46 transmissions with overdrives. OK!
It recommends a 20% amount only, to be added to the ATF. Small investment get spread out.
In Remembering that old gear display, I think I got their point in my head of what the stuff really is!
A Friction Modifier, which might mean, it’s less slippery, so it doesn’t fall off!
I don’t think they meant, it adds friction!
Ok then, I bit and it hasn’t hurt anything so far in the 1991 or my 1986 M46 OD wagon model.
I’m one that doesn’t like to mess with success @nearly 300k or 350k above!
A lot was the care I give it, plus I don’t abuse my equipment as I drive to only to try to wear them out!
Yes, I still have a 1974 A606 Maytag washer, that I got slightly used when I got married.
Yes, I’m still married to the first wife! I think no kids helped a lot, except she’s partly the reason I have six Volvos! (:). Better than having an ungodly large pickup truck, out of the back woods or a boat out of the water!

Anyways!
I have these two things for you to check out!

https://www.ebay.com/b/Manual-Transmissions-Parts-for-Volvo-240/171116/bn_19617232

https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/FH-1161645

One is related to parts you might consider.
BCG and I poised our eyeballs on these!
The other is oil that I’m experimenting with from Fuchs.
Study the specifications and see how it compares to the Red Line Product that doesn’t show me anything, to believe in and costs just as much per bottle.

The Auto Haus prices have been comparable good to others and are whole lot better than a Volvo dealers price, that was at one time @ $34 a bottle.
I believe it to be the same stuff back a few years ago and now I see it come up with better specifications and actual recommendations on the site!
I think this is due to Volvo not renegotiating exclusive contracts with some suppliers. Times are changing!
It’s obvious they didn’t make the oils to begin with AND they are moving more and more towards only electric car building!

This oil seems to have quieted down the 1990 gear box a little bit and it shifts as good as my 1991.
I do believe that in both transmissions it’s the front bearing that BCG found in his photos to be the primary culprit!
Never heard of someone swapping out element retainers, but hey, he’s got ambition coupled with needs!
I will eventually tear into the one that came with my 1993 and I expect it will be the front bearing mostly! There is another bearing on the main shaft that split the main into two pieces so it can run at different speeds. It is very dependent on the front main bearing being as stable as possible!


An old advertisement was, “Volvos are a car you can believe in!
They last 11 to 17 years!
Well? (:). My car collection started in 1978 and IT just made two, to town trips, yesterday! (:)

Phil

Thank you all for so many great replies!

Yes, GL5 is NFG for our older transmissions. Did manage to pretty badly mess up the transmission in my '66 pickup using GL5 instead of GL4. (two rebuild kits later...)

Thinking about the Redline brand of fluids got me thinking about the older Porsche that run the 915 transmission ('70 something to '86). That transmission is so incredibly complex, long story short, the Porsche folks all swear by Swepco 201. Pretty expensive, but very sticky (not necessarily higher friction, it is a bit like glue, sticky, but lots of slide). Also a GL4 80W90.

In prep for the wife taking the wagon for a two month detachment we drained the transmission, it was ATF in there. And over-filled it with some Swepco 201.

Thus far (10 miles in) the transmission is a bit tough to shift until driven a bit (probably the reason why ATF is recommended) but once warmed, it has a much better shift feel. And still has a bearing noise. UGH.

Thanks again for all the replies!

If you are inclined to pray, please say a little prayer for the wife as she is headed out to do some medial help on one of the reservations still ravaged the 'rona.

Thanks!

Andrew

as you have found the choice if fluids is almost like asking-- 'what's the best single malt'.

Another:
Redline or royal purple or what?
https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39134

Post by jimmy57 » Tue May 24, 2011 9:57 pm
Type f causes problems with the first gear brake that dampens gear rattle.
In Europe they use Volvo Thermal Oil which is a synthetic oil. This product is not stocked in US parts system.
A few years back when I worked at a dealer we had a company that bought a small fleet of 240 wagons with M47II gearboxes. After the 30 K service when we drained anf refilled with TYpe F they all started having hard to engage complaints and the clutches were fully disengaging. We drained and refilled them as an effort to flush them and then we had a couple melt the plastic cage for the first gear roller bearing. The thrust washer on first gear got hot and melted the cage.
WE sought tech assistance from Volvo (cars were still in warranty). A tech guy came out and I rebuilt the gearboxes with him so he could see the failures. I re-assembled with closer end play and the cars both had subsequent failures and were hard to engage first gear if you idled and released clutch with trans in neutral.
I dismantled and inspected and they both melted first gear bearing cage. I replaced affected pieces and put 10W30 synthetic in them and they shifted better than ever and had no more failures. The others that hadn't failed but just had hard gear selection were drained and refilled with synthetic motor oil and it fixed those. We used synthetic oil in any that came in with high effort gear selection with success.
THe royal purple product for manual gearboxes and transaxles is a good choice. It was developed to address "crunchy" gear selector action according to something I read about the product when it came out.

I forgot to mention ... if the whine sound disappears when you press the clutch pedal, bets are on a wearing throw out bearing so far as I know.

I guess you could have input shaft bearing issues?

A forum member here recently rebuilt the M47 in his 1988 (?) or so 240. He was able to find bearings and such, yet had to make a few mods to a bearing or something.

Forum Member bcg:
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/user_data.htm?uid=20359

https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1674561/220/240/260/280/m47_front_bearings_images.html

https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1674671/220/240/260/280/m47_photos_reusing_old_outer_bearing_nla_clip_parts_new.html

--
Beh.

In the steps of diagnosis for M74s
Check off the cheapest/easiest-to-test possiblity first.

1) you wrote that you had the clutch renewed. Was the TrowOut Bearing also new?
If it was renewed what is the possiblity that the new one Could Be Defective?

2) when my M47 went. First clue was the metal shards in the Tranny Fluid.
Have you drained and checked the fluid??? Get a light colored pan that will hold at least a gallon(you need space for the 2Qts you drain) -- I use a whiteish cat-litter pan...where pets/cat food are sold.

Drain and then get a light on that fluid----metalisc reflections???
Points to inside the tranny--- not good.

3) I found that--- I refilled with El Cheapo ATF---drove it a mile or so. Drained and Repeated...checked each drain pan for lesser sign of metal shards.

Final re-fill with Redline ATM. Tranny went about 3K longer --- with 700M round trips on I95 at 75mph in 5th.

+++++
Notes on shards: silver is brearings, goldish- brass syncros

Two more El Cheapos.

External noise ----(an internal Tranny noise will be muffled and could be dependent on - Speed/Gear- accellerate/foot off gas... You get it?)

How is your driveshaft.

There are three points of wear on a 200K+ driveshaft

1)That bearing midway held inside that rubber cage. How's that rubber hanging?

2) The 2 - TWO Ujoints

3) that Guibo, the rubber damper/joiner- taht replaced the front U Joint with the M47... that connects the Tranny to the Driveshaft.....or is it Guibo or whatever ...BMW spreken ze deutch.

PS the last thing you want to do is rip apart that tranny....Until the boxes are checked off.

U-joints and Rubber bearing are in good shape. Also replace the center hanger with a new bearing and the new rubber (the new kit from IPD)

Andrew

Forgot to mention.

M47 uses a GL4 gearbox oil at 75-80W like the Redline specified manual transmission lubricants.

NOT GL5 differential fluid! GL5! Bqad for M47 like Dexron.

D'oh!
--
Beh.

ATF Type F is commonly used in the M47, however, a SAE 75W GL-4 is also possible.

Try something from this supplier. I have MTL in my 1800, a noticeable improvement.

https://www.redlineoil.com/

I used Redline MTL in my '89 as have others here.

Perhaps you already know this but the usual recommendation is to use two quarts and raise the left side of the car before you fill, otherwise the fluid will start running out of the fill port before you can completely fill the second quart.

Also, if you have not previously removed the drain and fill plugs you are in for a real treat.


--
'79 242, '84 DL 2 door, '80 DL 2 door, '89 DL Wagon, '15 XC70 T6 AWD

Mobile 1 ATF. Drop your pan and replace the trans screen and gasket. Your can flush the whole system (torque converter) by disconnecting the radiator cooler line at the radiator.

Don't use the Mobil-1 ATF. It is an older Dexron-spec fluid, not suitable for the Volvo gearboxes. Works great in older automatics that specify Dexron III/IV.

I've used the Redline MTL in my 240 (M46) for about 15 or 20 years now. It improved the shifting smoothness and helped with a baulky OD unit.

If you decide to replace fluid, then VERY IMPORTANT to remove the filler plug first! You will have a very bad day if you drain the trans and then discover a stuck filler plug. Speaking from experience here (blush).

(...was on another computer that didn't recognize my login...)

I see that the earlier suggestion for Mobil-1, mistakenly assumed you have an automatic. He's correct in suggesting the Mobil-1 for Volvo automatics that recommend Dexron.

You can't go wrong with Volvo's specified fluid. That said, I've had the Redline MTL in my M46 a long time and pleased with it. But it's not a "mechanic in a bottle". If your gearbox has serious wear issues or internal damage, a quality repair job is really your only solution.
--
Son's XC70, daughter's XC60, my 83 244DL, 89 745 (Chev LT-1 V8), and XC60. Also '77 MGB with Chev V6, and four old motorcycles. Long gone: 1981 244, 1994 940 and 1998 S90.

Friend it is an M47. The 5 speed manual.

Andrew