In my 64 544, I am considering installing a Pertronix electronic ignition.
It supposedly requires less maintenance than points and provides a smoother
idle. Is electronic ignition better, or is it a matter of personal
preference? Any views are appreciated. Thanks

I have a friend who works on hot rods - he has several wealthy customers.

Last summer he worked on a car that cost the owner $70,000 but did not have an emergency brake! My friend added an electric emergency brake.

When a customer wants electronic ignition or already has one, he always sets up a conventional distributor and the parts to install it in place of the EI.

ANY decent mechanic or most old timers (including me) can get a car with a conventional distributor running, abiet perhaps not perfectly, with hand tools.

I beseech you to keep a conventional system and the tools to install it in your trunk.

When an electronic ignition goes dead, your car is toast!

Just curious, but does anyone know if Irv Gordon had switched to electronic ignition, or was he still using stock conventional points?

Dick;

I guess installing an elec Ign Module is better from the standpoint of no Ign Points maintenance required, and reports of better idling, but I've never felt the need to install one. As Al notes (thanks for the reference!) it is not necessary to insult the Armored Cable to power an elec Ign module when installation is combined with a Momentary Start Switch (always a good idea anyway for these models). See: http://www.sw-em.com/123Ignition_in_a_Volvo_with_Armored_Cable.htm

Cheers

I've been running electronic ignition out of a 1979? 240 for about 10 years now. Completely problem free. *No* vacuum advance. Armored cable intact.

I believe that electronic ignition also gives you more consistent timing than the points set up. (Ron, please correct me if I'm wrong).

KaiS
'67 Duett with B-18

It's the 1975 240 with the B20F that has the electronic ignition. I installed that in my 1969 144S and it worked very well - I made the conversion in the middle of winter -- quicker start ups was dramatic. The windings in the distributor (replaceable) did fail eventually on I-80 years later and I lucked into coasting downhill all the way to a PA rest stop. Found out it's possible to sleep upright :-) and switched out to the points/condenser distributor I carried for just such an event in the morning. -- Dave

Dave;

...what "Windings in the Distributor"? ...you mean the trigger for elec ign?

Such out-of-the-blue electronic failures are probably the biggest reason I have no interest in installing an automotive electronic ignition (spoken as an electronic engineer who knows high reliability avionics, and that they DO NOT build that level of reliability into stuff intended for cars!)...I bet the points based ignition won't do that! (...and even if it did have a problem, I wouldn't have to figure out how to "sleep upright", but I'd get it going again and be on my way...).
I guess the point is, if you want to enjoy the (alleged) quicker starting and smoother idle, and never (hopefully) have to dink around with points again, go ahead and install the elec ign, but keep the points and tools on hands as a plan B, just in case...

Cheers

If your condenser dies and melts the points or the point fall to pieces, you have to cary those parts, then futz around fixing it somewhere inconvient and dark. Pull your healthy running distributor out, including base, and install something upgraded which actually saves fuel and gives you a couple of extra BHP. Any dizzy failure & you switch in the old system with just a half inch spanner.

Thanks Ron for your insight---I feel better now about keeping my points
instead of converting to electronic ignition... You have such a detailed
knowledge about these old Volvos, any chance you will write a book and post
all your solutions to Brickboard questions? (name your price!)

Ron wrote-"...what "Windings in the Distributor"? ...you mean the trigger for elec ign?" I just can't/couldn't think of the correct term for the part of the Bosch electronic distributor which consists of a spool of copper wire encased in the white plastic housing. When I worked in an Indy Volvo shop in the late '80's I'd see this condition on occasion -- the complaint being "My car wouldn't restart a few times when hot (the motor--not the weather) but did start after it cooled down." My assumption was the wires were shorting due to heat and age.
The other fault I'd sometimes see is a mangled reluctor (correct term for the 4 legged "star" wheel?) or the 4 posts. I have no idea why someone would mess with those parts but some careful persuasion with a screwdriver and needle nose pliers could set things right.
I'm glad to see an actual electronic engineer confirm my suspicion that a lot of automobile electronics are just not up to the rough environment an auto.
As for sleeping upright in the drivers seat-I probably would have done that even if I had points that had simply closed up given that my day started with leaving the house at 3:30 AM - driving 2.5 hours to the track, registering for the Time Trial, installing the race tires, signing up drivers for photographs, instructing the corner workers of our rules of the day (the Eastern Motor Racing Association - EMRA), conducting the Driver Meeting, driving my sessions, taking photos of the others, reinstalling street tires, helping with the trophy ceremony and going to dinner with fellow racers. By the time I'd coasted into the rest area it was near 11pm. I awoke at sunrise and was back on the rode an hour later.
Was it all worth it? Given that I'd won my class championship in 2005 and 2006 I'd have to say yes. :-) Dave

Kai;

...there's nothing to correct...of course you're not wrong! Points are a mechanically based system, with contact bounce, wear, corrosion...all of these inherent variations that electronic systems just shrug off and laugh at...it's just that the Bosch points system is also quite reliable...I got 10 years and 50k miles+ out of one set of points without touching it (just to see if I could do it!) See: http://www.sw-em.com/tuneup.htm

Cheers

Pertronix is awesome.

But please don't hack up your armored cable to install it.
There are alternatives to install the Pertronix without destroying the coil and no-longer-available armored cable.

I don't know the procedure as I've only used a few Pertronix's on early 140 (B20) series cars that don't have an armored cable.
Search around or contact planetman or Ron Kwas for instructions on the workaround.

Since I got my 1st Volvo in 1979, I've been dealing with this issue.

I have installed just about every type of ignition system on an old Volvo.

Besides the multitude of different stock Volvo points distributors, I have used or installed a Mallory dual point, a Mallory dual point that was converted to a Chrysler magnetic pickup, a standard Mallory Unilite, a custom made Mallory Unilite, a Joe Hunt magneto, a custom made crank triggered computer controlled multi-coil system and a couple of versions of the 123Ignition. I have also installed the stock electronic distributor system from a 1975 Volvo 240.

I have also installed Perlux(now called Pertronix), Pertronix, Crane and several other electronic conversion kits for the stock distributors.

I have never been 100% in favor of ANY of the electronic conversion kits for the stock Bosch distributors, as I have seen all sorts of failures and problems. I have so much confidence in those conversions, that when I do a conversion at the insistence of a customer, I ALWAYS give my customers all the parts needed to convert back to keep in the car just in case.

So far my best experience has been with the Mallory dual point converted to the Chrysler magnetic pickup, the stock 1975 Volvo 240 electronic ignition and the 123Igniton distributors.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com

I have a Crane conversion that is so old that it's an Allison. No problem in a 14 second car. Having said that, I carried a healthy preset dizzy around for fear of the plastic shutter wheel dying, but after 30 years it somehow still works.

I have a Bosch aftermarket system for my B30E.

The stock B20B or E dizzy works all the way to 8800rpm with XU-1 points when in good nick. (195/60R14 tyres, 4.10 diff, 72mph in 2nd gear, not my car, I stay on the sensible side of 8000)

The electronic dizzies take out alot of the issues, but can't cure the harmonics problem of a gear driven camshaft which also has oil pump chatter at the base of it.

I would think a crank triggered distibutor system would be the go. The 123 system is A LOT of money for something that still has harmonics to deal with. Maybe mount the 123 on it's side and drive it with a mini cog belt drive!

Sorry, my mistake.
For some reason I thought you recently responded to another "armored cable cutting" thread so I gave you a shout out.
I guess I shouldn't have without asking.