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RWD - 1992 940 Regina losing power/stalling

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1992 940 Regina losing power/stalling

Good Morning!
I have a 92 940 with Rex/Regina 135k miles. 3 months ago I had a couple incidents where when driving, the car would suddenly seem to lose 90% of its power and eventually stall unless I could get it in neutral and kid of feather the throttle. I hooked up a fuel gauge. 38psi when idling normally. When I manually rev the engie from the bay I watch the PSI go up to 40ish as I open her up. When the vehicle starts this "dying" scenario the PSI may drop to 35 as it stumbles. I replaced the pump with an el cheapo special a couple years ago. I have also swapped FPR and RSR with known goods. I pulled codes yesterday and got a 1 3 2(low voltage) so I got a new battery. No change. I also get a random code 2 2 3 which I suspect is due to me swapping/splicing in a Bosch IAC a few years ago. But it idles perfectly so I am not guessig that to be causative. It feels like its suddenly either losing timing, or mucho voltage...IDK. MAP sensor? It has new plugs wires/cap and rotor, but should I take cap off for a peak under? CPS?
Matt





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1992 940 Regina losing power/stalling

I'm going to tentatively call this solved. The ECU had water actually dripping from the connection when I removed it. I brought it in and opened it up. Very little water intrusion there. BUT the lower portion of the connection on the ECU had a thick coating of blue/green corrosion(and water) that looked like it was making a connection between the two lowest prongs. I cleaned it up with a small wire brush and Deoxit. Slapped it back in, and she ran for two hours with nary a hiccup. I will retest later this week to confirm.

PS anyone know where to source window trim for the frnt windshield?? lol





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Solved

Having run it now for a good few hours and miles I am fairly confident this is solved. What is the easiest way to post a pic on here these days. If you could see the blue green moist paste at the bottom of the connector you would see why. Those bottom two pins were most certainly making innapropriate contact.
Lesson learned.





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May be on to something

So I removed the plastic trim and and am looking at the ECU....water has clearly dripped down and over it. There is still visible water on the connection to the ECU. I am gonna dry carpet and seal window. Should I assume ECU is now damaged and get a replacement or bring inside to dry?





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May be on to something

Worth a shot bringing it in to dry. Nothing to lose except a little time. They aren’t cheap.
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....





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Update 2

So I took the powers stage apart and cleaned well. Easy peasy. Didnt look bad. Put back together. Same symptoms. Borrowed neighbors timing light. Never used before but seems straightforward. Looking down at the marks on the lower cover when idling at 750 the mark on the crank pulley dampner assbly lines up with 10(maybe a hair to the left of 10). Then as engine dies it stayed same until I start "feathering" the throttle to keep her running/chugging, and the mark on the crank disappears...and when I release the throttle...she dies. Thoughts? I did notice I have a large puddle of water on the passenger side carpet as my window trim now leaks. I am thinking ecu could have gotten wet? I will go dissassemble and see....grrrr.





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1992 940 Regina losing power/stalling

I hAVe a 93 ,,I bet the cps sensor& or the map needs to be replaced,easy fix,,temp fix is to wrap it w aluminum heat tape
where is scratched





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Update

Went out and started her right up. Ran for 15-20 minutes as per normal before the symptoms appeared again. As the rpms started dropping a bit the fuel PSI actually bumped up to 42ish in correlation with the drop in rpms like a "compensation"? Temp sensor?





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Update

Certainly sounds electrical to me. If it were my car, I’d test coil and power stage first (as they are the cheapest to replace too!). If bad, both will tend to fail when the engine is warm not cold. In addition to testing voltage I recommend looking for corrosion, burn marks and fraying wires (power stage).

If no luck there, I would move onto testing the CPS, AMM and ECU.
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....





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Update

Thanks for the reply. I recall a old member of this board, lucid, proclaiming repeatedly that the power stage/amp on the rex/regina is fairly bulletproof but for the connection. He was pretty good with reginas. I am tempted to just replace the cps and map sensors as they could be original and owe me nothing. May have to borrow my neighbors timing light as well. Grrrr.





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Update

Just to reinforce lucid's advice of removing the coil portion and cleaning its pins and the contact points. The coil is held in place with two screws and the rest of the assembly can remain in place.

The whole procedure takes about five minutes.

Randy





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Update

One more vote for cleaning the coil pack. I experienced that issue on our own 740 Regina many moons ago. You might want to “tweak” the little springy contacts that the internal pins slide into to assure good snug connections. This will all make sense once you see the inside. Two torx screws to disassemble. You may also want to remove the whole unit and clean the mating surfaces between the coil assembly and chassis as a good ground oath between the two may be required - I’m not sure but it wouldn’t hurt.
--
Current rides: 2005 Volvo S80 2.5T, 2003 Volvo V70 2.4NA, 1973 Volvo 1800ES (getting ever closer to road worthiness)





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Update

> You may also want to remove the whole unit and clean the mating surfaces between the coil assembly and chassis as a good ground oath between the two may be required

As you say not a bad idea at all. I can say that it is not necessary to depend on a ground through the unit to the chassis. I was having a problem with one of mine and while I thought it was the coil assembly I wasn't sure and just zip tied a spare beside the mounted one and let it hang. I drove it like that for several days before switching the wires back to the original one which failed again after several miles (heat?).

Randy





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Coil to Chassis Ground Not Required

That answers that question. Thanks, Randy.





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Ignition suspect 900

True, Bruce owned a 940. He took me touring his countryside in it, but I'm quite sure he advised folks at every opportunity to disassemble that coil pack and tend to the common intermittent-causing corrosion at the internal coil terminals. I think the poster is referring to this as Rex's Achilles heel.

Sure the CPS needs to be looked at too. Aside from cleaning up the coil, I'd get your friend's timing light, connect it at the coil wire, and put a zip tie around the trigger while you wiggle the CPS wire and tap on the coil/amplifier assembly.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base." (Dave Barry)





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Update

You've replaced the battery. Is the 1-3-2 code still there? Erase the codes and read again. Have you checked the alternator voltage while car is running?

Amarin.





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Update

Yes, replaced the battery. Today when it was running, at the battery terminals I was getting a consistent 14-13.9volts. Do I need to test at the alternator as well?





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Update

Those voltages are ok. Just test again when the car stumbles. I suspect alternator issues is causing the symptoms when warm. Drive belt is tight enough?

Amarin.





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Update

I kept the voltmeter attached to the battery terminals and observed as the phenomena occurred. Dropped to maybe 13.8, 13.7 as the rpms dropped. That being said I do happen to have an known good alternator to try a swap.
As an aside this vehicle does have the "yazaki cluster" issue with the speedo going to 47 mph and staying. Isn't there an alternator "exciter circuit" within the cluster that can go bad and mimic such issues? Been too many years to recall.





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Update

Those readings are still ok when symptom occurs. I rest my case with the alternator. Could be the ignition module instead. IIRC the module is incorporated together with ignition coil for Reginas (whereas Bosch uses separate module). That could mean swapping the coil with known good part.


Isn't there an alternator "exciter circuit" within the cluster that can go bad and mimic such issues?
-> Yes. But not in your case I think. If exciter circuit fails your voltages won't be that good.

Amarin.





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Alternator exciter clarification

"If exciter circuit fails your voltages won't be that good."

True, if something shorts D+ at the alt to ground.

The common instrument panel trouble causes an open circuit, which keeps it from being pre-excited when it starts up, but once it has begun charging properly, the open circuit will not affect the B+ voltage.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

When I die, I want to die like my grandfather-- in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car."
(Author Unknown)





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Alternator exciter clarification

I am working nights till Monday therefore will not be able to do meaningful testing until Tuesday. I am planning on grabbing a timing light to see if timing is varying, will seperate and clean ignition coil/powerstage assbly and will have a new CPS and MAP sensor on hand, in case. I will report back.
Matt
PS, its nice seeing so many familiar names after so many years away.





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Update

Yes, I remember the exciter. Think it is a wire but can’t recall for sure. If the alternator itself is failing your dashlights would flicker and dim with the voltage drop.That happened to me both times an alternator has failed on the road in one of my cars.
--
Will I buy another Volvo??? We'll see....





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Javalion?

Hey are you still around? This sounds dead nutz like my issue but I see no resolution?
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1421825/940/960/980/V90/S90/fuel_code_223iac_signal_132low_voltage.html





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