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Hey, everyone,
Thinking of doing the ultimate strut + shock upgrade on my '94 244: Bilstein HD's. However, according to the ipd fitment helper on the their site, Bilstein HD struts cannot be used on a '93. But rear HD shocks can.
Does this have something to do with the ABS?
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When i purchased my 90 240 many years ago I also bought the Billy HD and had a Volvo tech install them. He had to grind most of the yellow paint off to make them fit the tube. He was not happy. When I went to pick up the car there was a small film of yellow paint everywhere in his shop. He did say the struts would not come back out. Still going strong, knock on wood.
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Nelson,
I was able to get the HD's into the strut tube, but the bottom washer was in the way of having them sit down as far as they need to.
At first they only went in a small ways, then I sprayed white lithium grease on the strut outside tube and then on the inside of the strut tube itself. The last time I put it in, it bottomed out and that is when I realized that the bottom washer/spacer was still there and needed to come out. Your mechanic should have lubed them before insertion and things would have gone much smoother.
Here's hoping they never have to be replaced.
Matt
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Patrick,
I have your answer as I too have just attempted this on an 89' wagon without much luck, where as my friend who also owns a 89' wagon was able to make it work.
At the bottom of the strut tube is a washer/spacer that was added and can be removed. My friend removed his and sent me a picture of it, which showed me that mine were still in and needed to be removed to make it all work.
By removing said washer you are able to then insert the Bilstien HD's all the way into the tube and they will work just fine.
I was not able to get this washer out at the time. I was under a time crunch so I kept the Bilstien touring in for the time being. My plan is to find a earlier year model, like a late 80's car and pull them off and do all the work on the bench and then when time permits put them on the car.
The rumor is that starting in 91', though I have yet to confirm this rumor, they either made the spacer part of the tube assembly or spot welded it into place. Either way, you're screwed, or so I've been told. Now is this only on the ABS cars? That I don't know. Therefore the solution is to pull them off of an earlier year car and remove the space before re-installing on your car.
Hope this was helpful.
Regards,
Matt
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Thanks for the info, everyone!
Kitty and Matt, how do you like the Bilstein Touring Class struts / struts? A little more "sporty" than stock?
I like enjoy a comfy ride, but also like to drive a tad aggressive from time to time.
I should have mentioned that I am running ipd sway bars, strut tower-to-firewall rods, and the older Cherry Turbo strut tower brace that ipd used to sell.
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Hi crazy driving,
What brand front strut / rear shock damper you got now? Why you want to replace these? So we know where you're coming from and can provide you with a sense of contrast for a ride you want?
I should have mentioned that I am running ipd sway bars, strut tower-to-firewall rods, and the older Cherry Turbo strut tower brace that ipd used to sell.
iPd USA stabilizer bars front and rear? What set-up?
Setup, Set-up, and setup? Commonwealth or American Standard English? Them grammar bastards!
How are the bushings front and rear? Replaced rubber, some urethane? (Well-lubed-urethane on Torque Rod ends is suggested. Use silicon synthetic grease, like SuperLube!)
Wheel and tire size? Factory 14" with 185 / 70R 14, or you have the Multi-X 14" or 15"? Or? It matters to help you.
Indeed, there is a pressed in stay, or spacer, that supports the bottom of the strut cartridge on these 1986 (or 1987? or 1988?) and newer 240 strut tube assemblies. I mean really pressed mechanically distorted in to the strut tube bottom on your 1993 240 and my 1990, 1991 (formerly, before I replaced these, and wish I kept them), and 1992 240s.
Spacer image:
On the earlier 240s, you have a groove with a high tension springy steel thingy snapped into the groove. The spacer sits on that. Though that may be with the small axle spindle on older 240 strut tube assembles Michael Yount mentions you do not want to use.
The Snap Ring:
Sometime later, I believe with the larger diameter axle spindle, is a pressed in seat. Same dimensions as the older 1970s-81-82 strut tube. A Bilstein HD fits fine without the spacer.
I dunno what year 240 specifically has the pressed in spacer and seat as one subassembly at the strut tube bottom and when the strut tube became a conical taper that is wider at the top and narrow (smaller) at the bottom. I believe 1987 or 1988. For certain 1989 (late?) and absolutely 1990 240. Could not fit the mid-1990s orange de Carbons strut dampers into the 1990 (very, very late 1989 construction) li'l red Volvo 240 DL wagon strut tubes to my chagrin. (No grin, quite a frown that day. Much cursing. Much, much cursing. Very blue. The Made in Mexico Sachs Advantage [what some call the Boge Turbo Gas] helped little as they are so soft.)
The very same problem as fitting Bilstein HDs into my 1991 240 (no ABS) front strut tubes. As aforementioned, 1985-1984 strut tubes on the 1991 now with the Bilstein HDs and the TME lowering springs. My 1992 has ABS and I installed the Bilstein Touring. I like the Bilstein Touring much better. The best value.
Please read this Turbobricks forum post on this same issue:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=218849
Some other entries:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=275506
Some Dave Barton Info (feat. Michael Yount):
http://www.davebarton.com/specsheet245.html#bilsteins
That spacer is an option on the 1985 (or 1986 or 1987 or 1988 or up to early 1989 - I'm unsure) and older Volvo 240 front strut tube assemblies. If you had a non-gas (or gas?) charged factory Made in Germany Boge strut cartridge dampers (for some reason I want to write dampener again) inside that 1988 (or 87 or almost certainly 1986) 240 strut tube, the cartridge body may be shorter than the gas charged strut tube. The much fabled orange de Carbon struts are longer and do not need the spacer. You see the orange de Carbons on some 240 Turbos (a forerunner design of the mono tube high pressure gas charged as Bilstein HDs) and maybe latest 242 GT. Though I've found adjustable Koni dampers on 242 GT, also, with the removable spacer at the bottom. I've also found Made in Germany Boge Turbo Gas on Volvo 240 up to 1985 both with the spacer and without.
Again, read the turbobricks thread. Though the problem is not specific to the later Volvo 240 strut tubes with which you're encountering potentially your Bilstein HD fitment should you buy these.
I checked the iPd USA site. The selector by model year cut off is 1992 it would appear for 240 for Bilstein HDs front damper strut cartridges.
Yet they did not fit my 1991 sedan; no ABS.
With the Dave Barton info, and what you describe as for ride, you may be well to consider Konis or perhaps made in Europa Gabriels. Boge, now owned by ZF, of Germany, a VERY distinct animal from the Sachs by Boge or Boge by Sachs, no longer sells Made in Germany Boge OEM.
Yet with compression and rebound valving rates, the (what I guess you have there on your 1993) factory springs may be too soft. Michael Yount suggests a heavier or stiffer spring. If you want to go low, and I regret even the mild lowering from the TME Volvo 240 sport springs on my 1991 240 sedan (and they are rusting, also), you may need to perform more aggressive suspension mods to preserve suspension (rear differential pitch, axle centered) geometry and such.
So, to conclude, I prefer Bilstein Touring dampers all around with factory springs and 14" wheels over the Bilstein.
Billys, Billys, Billys. This forum was replete with Bilstein HD advocacy in 2001 when I bought a set. On the hottest day in June 2001, in the insufferable and offensive St. Louis summer Mexico Gulf (where the humidity comes from here) stench made me an angry person. Reassemble. Back to the junkyard. Speedway Auto Salvage in IL-state. One left and one right strut assembly each from two different 240s as they are all so rusted. Also, you can't buy strut tubes from Volvo that would fit the Bilstein HDs.
I'm dissatisfied with the Bilstein HDs. They compress and rebound far too easily. Always have with little difference in 60k miles. The rear Bilstein HDs are way software and are not well matched for the front HDs. Re-valving them is expensive as hell.
So, lettuce know your wheel and tire set-up, and bushing state, and size of the front and rear stabilizer bars you have.
The stiffer your suspension (less compliance) the grater the need for a perhaps larger wheel with grippier ($$$) tires so you can maintain between front and rear steerage. Stiffer means more oversteer, usually.
Search for (with quotes):
"Volvo 240" "Bilstein HD"
Hope that helps.
Sorry to go on so long.
Happy Holidays.
Doin' the Laundry Boyeee and the Sewer Stinky Laundrette.
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FYI: I have BillyHD struts on my 91 245. Have run about 70k miles with no issues.
I think one of the HD strut install issues was the glad nut not fitting. I did not install the HD struts myself, but had a good mechanic do it. They are there with the ABS. ???
I do like the BillyHD ride, but it is very tight. Works great speeding on dirt roads, but overly harsh on the highway. I do like the tighter steering they seem to provide.
I'm also running the IPD sways, firewall braces and CT top brace. I do think that setup helps the front end steering and reduces understeer. Plus I have the IPD overload rear springs, which really do help to haul loads and may ride better than HD shocks on stock rear springs. ??? Luckily, your 93 will have the stiffer front springs (which started in 91 I think).
I will say if I did it again I'd try the Bilstein Touring instead. I have them on my 945 and like them a lot. The touring shocks are a lot cheaper than HDs, and the HDs seem too "tight".
I suggest new strut mounts when you install the struts. You do not want to have to go back in there and realign the front end and everything. Maybe the new OEM part isn't as good as the older OEM, but I would not install used strut mounts. Rubber cracks with age.
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Love them!
I have Billy's on 3 of my 4 Volvo's!
The 4th one will get them later this fall.
Matt
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Hi crazy driving,
Yep, drives you crazy?
Sometime after 1986 or so, the front strut tubes in the space to contain the strut cartridge housing became a smaller diameter and also shorter.
I'm unsure whether the ABS tubes are a sure thing. The Bilstein HDs did not fit my 1991 240 sedan and my 1990 240 DL wagon.
I replaced the strut tube assemblies on my 1991 with strut tubes from a 1984 Turbo or DL 240 sedan.
Indeed, the rear Bilstein HDs will fit the rear shock (damper) perches fine. Yet, unless the compression and rebound have become more robust, I've not been too satisfied with the rear Bilstein HDs on my 1991 240 as they are not a match for the front. The rears are much more complaint (softer). The 1991 Volvo 240 has 23 mm front / 23 mm rear stabilizer bars with the TME sport springs for 240 Wagon iPd used to sell.
I'm most pleased with the Bilstein Touring for 240. On my 1992 240 GL, I have the stock front springs, rear 240 wagon springs from a 1991 or 1992, a front 23 mm stabilizer bar from a Turbo 240 and stock rear bar. Compression and rebound are much crisper than the Bilstein HDs. Though this 1992 240 being of normal ride height may matter.
Both have the stock 14" steelies. All front bushes, including strut mounts are OEM and new as of 3.5 - 4.5 years ago or so. Though OEM strut mounts for 240 are apparently garbage. See www.kaplhenke.com for camber strut plates. Sometimes you can find them used.
New rear torque rod urethane bushes.
Your next step up would be Koni for front dampers. If still made for 240, with fit the 1993 strut tube afaik.
Or, if you can score some 1985-1984 and older 240 strut tubes, yet watch the rust. Or try coil over assemblies from any of the Volvo 240 performance fabricators.
Others will respond with useful solutions for you.
Questions?
Cheers,
Mac Dud and the MK Ultra + the Cointelpro. So much for Frank F. Church and his Committee.
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As kittysgrey alluded to - trade out tubes for earlier model. If you replace the whole spindle too - be sure you don't go too early. Long about 81 or 82 the went to larger spindle/bearings -- so you want to be sure you have that kind of set up. You want old enough to have the bigger tube but 'young' enough to have the bigger spindle.
I ran IPD sport springs and Billy HD's on mine for years and didn't know just how much better things could be until I switched to Eibach springs (MUCH higher spring rates) and Koni Sport shocks. In my opinion the Bilstein HD's are marginally effective at damping the stock springs.
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