I have one last daemon to solve until my kids think the car is 'safe and reliable'.

1993 240 Wagon, 197k

Symptom: Occasionally, when we try to start the car soon after it has been running for a while, it fails to turn over. Lights and electrical systems are working. We have to let it cool anywhere from 15 min to 2 hours before it will crank, and then there is no problem.

This happens at gas stations or parking lots when the car has been turned off for a short period of time and then a restart is attempted.

When I turn the key to the #3 position to engage the starter, I can hear a slight 'click' coming from the starter area. But that's all. I think my ignition switch is ok.

A few months ago I cleaned all the big red wire connections between the batter, alternator and starter. I also cleaned all the ground connections. I have verified I've got good voltage on the big red wires.

I think my issue is in the start area, but I've never explored it and want some guidance.

I could not find any procedures for verifying the solenoid and starter operation.

Thoughts and suggestions appreciated.

Thanks.

I finally got time today to replace the starter. Art's instructions were great. You can find them here:

http://cleanflametrap.com/starter.html

The new starter cranks much better than the old one and the car fires up faster. Here are some additional notes that may help others in the future.

I purchased the starter from FCP:

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-starter-motor-244-245-240-740-760-780-940-sr437x

IPD offers the same starter and now shows compatible with the 93 240 after I reported the problem to them. The prices were nearly identical, but I went with FCP because of the lifetime guarantee. I've already used it a few times on other parts and it really works.

The starter was an exact match to the one I pulled, which appeared to be original. Here are some pics:







And removing the snorkel tube leaves plenty of room to work:



I also purchased a set of wobble sockets and extensions from Harbor Freight tools. The 18mm socket was more shallow than any I could find and worked well.

Socket set: #67911
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-pc-12-in-drive-metric-impact-swivel-socket-set-67911.html

Extensions: #67977
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-pc-12-in-drive-quick-release-extension-bar-set-67977.html

I tightened the starter bolts to 80 lbs.

It's hard to keep the socket aligned on the top bolt. The socket wants to wander off the bolt head when loosening or tightening, which rounds the edges. Replacing the bolt probably requires removing lots of other parts as there is not enough room to remove the bolts.

That's all. Thanks again. Let me know if you have any questions.

Well, it finally happened again. We had a 90+ degree day yesterday and my kids called me from the mall where it failed to start. I jumped for joy and raced over with my volt meter.

The B+ terminal was getting battery voltage and the Bl/Ye wire from the ignition switch was getting battery voltage as well.

So I pulled out the best of all tools (a wooden stick) and gave the starter solenoid a good whack while turning the ignition, and it came to life. Culprit revealed!

I don't want to rebuild the unit and would just like to swap starters. Art's instructions are pretty clear - Thank you!

However, I get conflicting responses from IPD and FCP.

FCP says this starter will fit:

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-starter-motor-244-245-240-740-760-780-940-sr437x

IPD offers the same starter, but says it will not fit:

http://www.ipdusa.com/products/8230/106324-starter-motor-solenoid

Who is mis-informed?

Thanks

woodshavings asked--"Who is mis-informed?" I wouldn't say mis-informed -- technically covering their backsides is more accurate I think.

Any starter made for a B18/20 or B21/23/230 will fit any of those model engines. The differences are few--early starters mounted with long bolts with a nut on the starter end (not metric). Later starters are threaded (metric) in the starter body. Pre-fuel injection starter solenoids did not have the small terminal meant to energize a cold start valve. Older starters are big - newer (90's) are small. They all will interchange and match the flywheel. -- Dave

I would take a picture of both articles and go shopping locally!

You can bargain with the pictures and compare at the same time.

If there is a problem later, there will be a greasy spot on the counter to lay the dead one again!
Rebuilds can be yucks!

Hard to do all that online!

Phil

Phil, if local shopping is convenient for the OP that's good advice. I think IPD should get a call, though, with the warning they may be losing sales because of their application filter in this case. Dylan ought to be able to fix this too. Free shipping and no sales tax are tempting benefits, along with the 3 minutes needed to click and spend, but as you say, throwing the dud back up on the counter is not so easy. SR437X is correct.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Don't let people drive you crazy when it is within walking distance.

Why has no one mentioned the Power stage?
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89 240 wagon, 94 940, 215K, 94 940, 141K

"Why has no one mentioned the Power stage?"

I did not mention it for two reasons:

1. It is not involved in cranking.

2. I have no experience to date of the fabled heat dissipation issue yet I have a lot of miles on cars employing them.

:-)
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.

Try pouring cold water on the starter the next time it won't start.

If this works, you need a new starter

i had a '84 mercedes diesel that did that. it was definitely the starter. i once drove it from fl to ct without shutting the engine off!
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'91 244 192k auto

Sure sounds like a starter but be sure your battery is up to snuff as well. How old is it?

"Sure sounds like a starter but be sure your battery is up to snuff as well. How old is it?"

You could certainly put some jump leads on from a running car that has a good battery. That might help you verify that the starter is good, bad or iffy.

This could be dirty battery connections at the battery or starter or grounds. It also could be a starter solenoid going bad, when it does not turn over hit the solenoid with a broom stick or piece of wood.

Dan

All the connections were just cleaned and verified in the last two months, including the battery, alternator and starter.

Hitting the solenoid had no effect.

your solenoid. The piston is failing to move

you need to remove the starter and replace the solenoid.

Or you could just do a Lube "rebuild" of the starter, by taking it apart and cleaning and lubing it.

It may be all that's necessary

http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/arlo244/volvo/Starter%20Motor%20Lube%20Points.png~original

Thanks CB. I also think this is my problem.

What is the best way to remove the starter? I have an AT.

I've read a bunch of posts that say I either need to move the tranny towards the passenger side 2 inches, or I need to drop the tranny brace to let the tranny fall a bit. Both allow me to get at the top bolt.

I've also read I need a bunch of extensions, breaker bar and swivel with 18mm short socket. Ok.

Does anyone know the Volvo service steps? I have the OTP green book scans, which covers the starter operation, testing and rebuild procedures. But I cannot find anything about removal and installation. I'd rather spend hours researching and gathering the right tools than struggling under the car trying to figure it out as I go along.

Thanks in advance.

If you are a part fixer, you will probably find the solenoid is NOT the problem, but instead, the brushes and commutator. In the PM (permanent magnet) starters, the solenoid uses two windings; one to pull it in and one to keep it in once the contacts deliver power to the motor. The pull-in winding is in series with the motor, so any problem with the brushes will result in only the keep-in winding being energized, hence the weak click.

However, probably is not certainly. You can use your voltmeter or test light at the brush terminal to see which it is if you can catch it not working. Unfortunately, the 93 doesn't have that convenient place to attach a remote starter switch, so you have to risk disturbing the situation by clipping to terminal 50 for your test switch.

Here are my notes about starter replacement. I have much more on starter service if you aren't into the part-swapping expedient.

Notes on Starter Replacement
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Art Benstein near Baltimore

It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.

Thanks Art. The pictures in your post are perfect and exactly what I was looking for. It looks like I don't need to remove the tranny support nor try to 'push it towards the passenger side' to get access to the top bolt.

I cannot afford to have the car off line for more than a day, so I'll probably have a working starter on-hand for the swap. I love to tinker so I will probably spend the time trying to figure out what is wrong with the starter, and may repair it.

Thanks again!

That's how I did my first. Got a starter in the pick and pull yard, without the benefit of the air tools. For some reason, tough nuts seem easier to crack in the junkyard... Or maybe they didn't screw them on quite as tight on the 700s :-)

A later instance occurred before I bothered to rebuild the starter, so I ordered a Genuine Bosch remanufactured unit. I was confident it would be a better choice than the parts store usually provides, but it died six months later due to a commutator segment being loose. The junkyard starter plays on and on.

I like the idea of dumping cold water on it.

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Art Benstein near Baltimore

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.