Hello All, New to posting on the forums but nor reading and absorbing.
92 940 GL Died and had it towed home. Upon arrival I couldn't hear the fuel pump running so I replaced it. The car will start with the application of starting fluid and run.I am unable to get the fittings loose for the fuel rail hoses, but have checked the Schrader valve and there is no fuel or pressure coming out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff

Some people have been able to check the fuel pressure using a tire gauge on the schrader valve attached to the fuel rail. I don't know how that effects the tire gauge function afterwards though.

I make up fuel pressure gauges by cutting the fitting off of a parts car's fuel rail. A trip to the hardware store gives me the additional items I need as indicated in the photo.

Good luck,
Randy

I would check fuel pressure at the Schroeder valve along with both the main fuel pump relay and the fuel injector relay

Thanks for the reply,
No pressure of any kind at the Schrader. Fuel pump relay is new. I cant seem to reference anything about an injector relay anywhere for this Regina setup. Closest reference was the radio suppression relay which I jumped past and still no start.

Thanks,
Jeff

Further update, I finally was able to break the fitting loose at the fuel rail. Fuel getting to the rail but still not start. Any further thoughts?

Thanks,
Jeff

Still sounds like injectors. Yes, radio suppression relay controls injector power. Look here, may help:

https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFuelinjection.htm#TestingorRepairingBadFuelInjectionRelay
--
Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.

Thanks for the link. It will be very useful. I have confirmed fuel is getting up to the schrader valve by opening it while wife cranked the engine. Am I to assume that the injectors are the last thing to check?

Thanks,
Jeff

Hello,

Good to know the CPS is within specs and injector is 'clicking'.

So fuel is getting into the rails but still no start. Check your fuel pressure regulator (FPR). Pull out the vacuum hose attached to its back. Is the hose's inside wet (with fuel)? Normally it should be dry.

The FPR builds up the fuel pressure in the rails. Its unusual for the FPR to fail in opened state (i.e broken inside spring). Usual failure mode is fuel leak thru its diaphragm.

Hope this helps,
Amarin.

EDIT: Verify the injector is clicking by putting hand onto it. You could be hearing the valves opening/closing sound instead. Better option is to put LED bulb (aka the 'noid light') into the injector's electrical plug to see it flash during cranking.

Thanks again,
Fpr hose is dry. Cant really say if fuel is actually making it to the rail because the Schrader vale is not leaking any fuel. Listened to the injectors clicking with a short piece wood stuck to my ear. Wondering if cranking while bleeding the Schrader valve would send fuel to the rail.

Jeff

Hello,

Thanks. Just to be sure. At least we can rule out the injector.

You mentioned that fuel is coming out from the fuel hose-rail fitting (when disconnected) but none came out of schrader valve?

This would mean something is blocking inside the fuel rail. A remote possibility is accumulated dirt from the fuel itself due to failed fuel filter. Or some bits and pieces of filter material (the filter element inside is paper) inside the fuel rail. It could happen if the fuel filter hasn't been replaced for long (but its rare). I'm speculating here. Haven't experienced such an issue.

It would be telling if the fuel rail is dismantled and its insides flushed off.

Hope this helps,
Amarin.

Exactly, No fuel at the Schrader vale but good at the fuel rail fittings. When I replaced the fuel pump I did notice some of the pump strainer had dissolved but not much. What do you think about opening the Schrader while cranking to check for fuel at the rail?

Thanks,
Jeff

Hello,

Opening the Schrader while cranking could make fuel spray everywhere. Instead I would disconnect the fuel return line after the FPR (and put the disconnected hose to a bottle) to test the same. Much safer I think.

Regards,
Amarin.

Thanks Amarin, I am auuming the schrader valve on the rail is like a regular tire stem fitting. If so I had my wife crank the car while I opened the vale and fuel came out.Thought maybe it lost prime on pump replacement, but no such luck still no start.

Thanks,
Jeff

Hello,

Let say fuel did come out when the valve is depressed during cranking, injector is clicking and you have spark, there's still a possibility that fuel can't go thru the injector.

There's a small filter on top of each injector. For this you must take out the injectors from the fuel rail to see if that tiny filter is blocked with debris.

Regards,
Amarin.

Well it looks like the injectors are next. Is there a way to test the injectors while they are still on the rail?

Thanks,
Jeff

There is at least one coming off the Battery + post, affecting the Fuel Injection Relay (Pump and System relays, plus RSR, injectors, etc.

A 12V incandescent test light is preferable to a DVM where available current is questionable.

My son had a link go bad on his '92 GL about 5 years ago. As I recall, it was open (burnt) close to the + terminal. But there was enough slack to cut the burnt part off and crimp on a new ring terminal.

I think the link wire insulation was Gray (not Red) at that point in the circuit.


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Thanks, checked everywhere near the + battery post and am unable to find a fusible link. Metered voltage on the first injector(closest to front)with key on and have 12v to ground on one side of the connector. seems voltage is getting there.

Thanks,
Jeff

The fusible link on my son's GL was attached with a ring terminal on the 6mm clamping bolt for the large red positive cable terminal. It looked like a normal wire but with GRAY insulation (even though shown as RED in the diagrams).


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Found the link inside a loom where it converts from grey at the batt cable to red on the other side. Not sure how I can check the link as it shrink wrapped inside the connection.

Thanks,
Jeff

"Found the link inside a loom where it converts from grey at the batt cable to red on the other side. Not sure how I can check the link as it shrink wrapped inside the connection."

Never mind, that's the one that Amarin mentioned for the Fan Relay.

It's all coming back now. Son's problem was the Fan relay, not a no-start.

But more on-topic: How did you bypass/jumper the RSR?

--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Found the instruction on Dave Bartons relay page and jumpered the 2 pins on the socket. Still no start. Confirmed relay was energizing by removing and reinserting with key on. I have a feeling this is something simple I am just overlooking.

Thanks,
Jeff

really starting to believe this is a fuel pressure problem, but I have no way of testing for correct pressure. At this point I believe I have done everything I can to diagnose this problem. Just checked plugs and they are as dry as a bone. Not sure how the injectors actually fire if it takes an electrical signal fuel pressure or both. Got to thinking about the aftermarket fuel pump I was sold and it was not an exact fit although 3 parts houses confirmed it was the correct pump.(in tank) Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Jeff

Thu Oct 16 16:50 EST 2014
The car will start with the application of starting fluid and run.I am unable to get the fittings loose for the fuel rail hoses, but have checked the Schrader valve and there is no fuel or pressure coming out.
• NO FUEL AT SCHRADER

Thu Oct 16 20:11 EST 2014
Fuel pump is running, I disconnected the outlet from the fuel filter(engine side) and the fuel is flowing through the filter.
• PUMP RUNNING VERIFIED IN ANY WAY?
• I SUSPECT THIS FUEL IS FROM THE (so-called) PRIME WHEN CRANKING CYCLES.

Fri Oct 17 14:36 EST 2014
Had wife crank the car and I can hear the fuel injectors ticking away. Tested the fuel delivery after the fuel filter,got a good soaking(again)
• AGAIN I SUSPECT THIS FUEL IS FROM REPEATED CRANKING. (undocumented pump relay circuit)

Fri Oct 17 14:53 EST 2014
No pressure of any kind at the Schrader. Fuel pump relay is new.
• ????

Sat Oct 18 13:39 EST 2014
Fuel getting to the rail but still not start. Any further thoughts?
• PROBABLY ACCUMULATED FROM "PRIME" CYCLES.

Sat Oct 18 16:35 EST 2014
Cant really say if fuel is actually making it to the rail because the Schrader valve is not leaking any fuel.
• SEE BELOW...

Sun Oct 19 18:22 EST 2014
I am assuming the schrader valve on the rail is like a regular tire stem fitting, If so I had my wife crank the car while I opened the valve and fuel came out.
Thought maybe it lost prime on pump replacement
• AGAIN, SO-CALLED PRIME CYCLES
• "LOST PRIME" doesn't happen

Tue Oct 21 13:23 EST
really starting to believe this is a fuel pressure problem,...
Got to thinking about the aftermarket fuel pump I was sold and it was not an exact fit although 3 parts houses confirmed it was the correct pump.(in tank) Any thoughts?
• ME TOO. SUGGEST FORCING PUMP TO RUN" AS A TEST. See below
• NEED PUMP DETAILS... SOURCE? BRAND? COST?

======================Fuel Pump Jumper Test===================
Start by making sure Fuse #11 is OK. It could get blown if the O2 sensor heater or wiring shorts to ground.

If #11 is good, remove it and use one of it's terminals to test the pump by making a jumper wire (see below) to apply +12V to the terminal that is farthest away from you, i.e., toward the engine.
•<==jumper (+12V)
F11
•

You can get +12V battery voltage from the Fuse 1 terminal that is closest to you, after the fuse is removed. Make a jumper wire with a flat male terminal on each end to route the voltage from F1 to F11.
•
F1
•<==jumper (+12V Source)

With the jumper in place you should be able to hear the pump run by listening at the fill pipe or maybe just with the trunk open if the area isn't too noisy.
===================================================





--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Thanks for all the help. You folks are a wealth of information. Unless I am missing something under the car this one has single in tank pump, no main fuel pump located under the drivers seat area. If I pull either fuse F1 or F11 the in tank pump does not go through the approximate 2 second pre prime routine with key in position 2. Fuses are labeled F11 =(heated lambda sensor)(in tank fuel pump)and F1 = (Fuel pump)(Engine control) I thought the lambda sensor had been replaced in this model with the RSR. Any thoughts? Does the same jumpering routine apply here?

Thanks again,
Jeff

FURTHER UPDATE: I jumpered the f1 and f11 fuse as described and the fuel pump is most running constantly with jumper in place. My apologizes for not including the fuel pump make. It is an airtex unit provided by NAPA. Confirmation was provided by Advance and AZ. The replacent pump was fully a third shorter that the original Volvo pump. I had to splice in a piece of fuel line and remove the original diaphragm that connected the pump to the feed outlet.

According to the 700/900 FAQs, some Regina cars came with two fuel pumps, similar to the Bosch setup.

https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFuelinjection.htm#BoschvsRegina

Also, you mentioned that the replacement in -tank pump was not an exact match for the part that came out. Any chance that the parts supplier sold you a Bosch in tank pre pump instead of a Regina system primary pump?

http://cleanflametrap.com/ReginaFuelPump/

Well I'll be darned. The fuel pump they sold me seems to be the same as the middle one in the link you posted. People at the parts store probably don't know the difference between regina/bosch even though I told them it was regina. I have started tracking down another pump. Seems the regina pump is a difficult item to find. anybody have any ideas where to source one?
Not looking forward to getting back into the trunk again for this puppy.

Thanks,
Jeff

FCP has the Regina pump.

http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-fuel-pump-in-tank-740-940-regina-oem-3507736

82 bucks. FCP is generally reliable.

Dear boxvolvo,

Hope you're well. Proparts is an aftermarket name. There's no way to know by which company - and in which country - this pump was made. Such things matter. A lot.

Some countries have a long history of making car parts or other industrial products, e.g., Germany, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, the US/Canada, Brazil, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Mexico, etc. Others are "new comers" to the making of industrial products, e.g., Turkey, Bulgaria, China, Thailand, India, Indonesia, Vietnam.

In countries with a long history of making industrial products, the need for precision and quality control is widely understood. In countries with shorter histories of making industrial products, these concepts - precision and quality control - are less-than-fully embraced.

In short, for mission-critical parts or parts that are hard to access/replace, it is best to pay for a brand name item.

Hope this helps.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

I believe the original poster was asking for a reliable vendor - one who would take care to select and ship the correct part. I have had good experience with FCP.

Thank you for the enlightening lecture on the risks of aftermarket parts.

Dear boxvolvo,

Hope you're well. I apologize if I seemed "to lecture".

From many posts, I learned that In-tank fuel pump replacements are a lot of work, especially in sedans, where access is limited. I've done pump replacements only in wagons, where access is relatively easy.

I was (and am) concerned that economizing on the part, i.e., saving $20-30, might mean having to re-do the job far sooner, rather than (perhaps) never. The factory-installed pumps seem to last about 150,000 miles. The Volvo brand replacement is likely to be as good.

You're certainly right as to fcpgroton being unlikely to supply the wrong part. But unless the part (or the factory-sealed box) is marked with a country of origin - and, preferably with the name of the company that actually made the pump - I'd not install any "aftermarket" in-tank pump, no matter how trustworthy the parts house, unless the Volvo brand item was "no longer available". In that case, I'd want an aftermarket pump made in Germany, Sweden, Italy, Korea, Brazil, etc.

Hope this helps.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

Dear opsman,

Hope you're well. You need Volvo Part #3507736. This is the single, in-tank pump for cars with Rex/Regina engine/ignition management. MSRP is about $170.

Depending on your address, call Borton Volvo (Minneapolis) or Tasca Volvo (Rhode Island). These dealers discount, so you might pay only $100-120.

Hope this helps.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

Thanks everyone for all the help. I googled the part # you provided (thanks spook!)and found one for $52.00 from an online parts supplier named rmeuropean out of Colorado. They confirmed it was the correct pump for the regina FI system. As you can imagine I am a little gun shy at this point. Any one ever heard of these folks?

Thanks,
Jeff

Dear opsman,

Hope you're well. You're welcome. My concern: the Colorado supplier has a pump that they think is #3507736. They may be right.

To be sure, when you get the pump, post a picture. I'll compare it with a Volvo-supplied pump #3507736. If the pumps are identical - and if the dimensions match - then you can install.

Part #3507736 is a good inch longer than the Bosch in-tank pre-pump unit.

Hope this helps.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

Thanks everyone for all the help. I googled the part # you provided (thanks spook!)and found one for $52.00 from an online parts supplier named rmeuropean out of Colorado. They confirmed it was the correct pump for the regina FI system. As you can imagine I am a little gun shy at this point. Any one ever heard of these folks?

Thanks,
Jeff

as I asked this morning, before the crash..

It's a question I should have asked first.

Wow that could explain why you have no fuel!
dan

I would say that is a good bet. Just called the local parts store(napa) and they wont take it back cause its been in the tank. Last time I get parts from them!

Thanks,
Jeff

...I wanted to ask about that sooner, but let myself get wrapped up in "trouble-shooting" (apologies for that).

Give us that NAPA number please.


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Bumping this up in hopes of a response from Jeff the OP.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Bumping up again, hoping for a response from Jeff.

--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

I would kick the complaint up to Corporate NAPA or see if they have a Facebook page. If you said it was regina they should know what that means.
Dan

Unless I am missing something under the car this one has single in tank pump, no main fuel pump located under the drivers seat area.
Correct

If I pull either fuse F1 or F11 the in tank pump does not go through the approximate 2 second pre prime routine with key in position 2.
Right. F1 and F11 are in series (F1 feeds F11, which feeds the Tank pump and O2 sensor heater). The jumper I described takes battery voltage from the hot side of Fuse 1 and applies it to the "Load" side of fuse 11 (pump and O2 sensor heater).

I thought the lambda sensor had been replaced in this model with the RSR.
No, they're entirely separate. The Regina Lambda/O2 sensor is unique and cannot be replaced with a conventional "Bosch" type. The RSR is a relay that (on your car) just feeds +12 to the injectors (ECU controls the ground side).

"Any thoughts? Does the same jumpering routine apply here?"
Yes, if you mean the +12V jumpering described in my previous post.

Your symptoms sound more like a fuel pressure/supply problem, but I thought some info about the Start/Run operation might be useful here anyhow. What follows is a canned post that applies to the Regina FI. And Bosch LH 2.4 too, but with different wire colors on the 240.


The (White) Fuel Injection relay is actually two (2) relays under one cover:
a) The "System" relay is energized when key is turned on, and sends +12V out on the blue-yellow wire (terminal 87/1) to prepare the FI system for starting and running.
b) The "Fuel" relay also gets +12V to its coil (terminal 85) from System relay 87/1. Fuel relay Coil ground (86/2) is controlled by ECU (pin 20) yellow-black wire (described in the sequence below the photo).

Photo below shows FI relay with white cover off (System relay above, Fuel relay below). Note the piece of tubing holding Fuel relay armature down/closed for testing.

CAUTION: Pump should run as soon as the relay is put into its socket. Turning the Key on will energize the System relay. Motor should then start when cranked, if ignition is OK.




Start-Run Sequence (Rex-Regina and Bosch)
1) During starter cranking, the Crank Position Sensor sends timing pulses to Ignition Control Unit (ICU)

2-a) The ICU propagates these timing pulses to the Power Stage (aka Ignition Amplifier) to initiate spark at the coil.

2-b) At the same time, the ICU also propagates those timing pulses to the FI ECU, to allow FI operation (no ICU pulses means no FI operation).

3-a) The FI System relay (previously energized at Key On) powers the AMM, IAC, ECU, RSRelay, and Fuel (pump) relay coil + side.

3-b) When ICU pulses (2b) are received by the FI ECU, it "energizes" the Fuel relay (completes the relay coil ground side) to run the fuel pump.

When this sequence is successful, the motor starts and runs until the Ignition is switched off, which in turn shuts down the FI system.



--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Thanks Lucid the jumper wire did start and keep the fuel pump running. I noticed you mentioned the 02 sensor in your latest post. Could the 02 cause a no start problem?

Jeff

...the jumper wire did start and keep the fuel pump running. I noticed you mentioned the 02 sensor in your latest post. Could the 02 cause a no start problem?"

Theoretically Yes, IF it's internal heating coil somehow got damaged and grounded, it would blow Fuse 11, the Fuel pump fuse.

Use the same jumper but apply the F1 voltage to the other (input) to Fuse 11 to make sure the pump still runs OK.


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Using the jumper wire to the second input on f11(toward engine)did not start the pump running.

Thanks,
Jeff

Using the jumper wire to the second input on f11 (toward engine)did not start the pump running.

Got me in a "hard of thinking" moment. Jumpering voltage to the input won't do anything unless the fuse is in place, which makes it hard to do.

At least you've proven that the pump runs if it gets the +12v from a jumper. An energized Fuel relay should also do the job.

Let's see what tomorrow brings.


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Well. Here I am again. I used the jumper to energize the fuel pump and checked for flow at the Schrader valve. Fuel is getting the but I don't know how much pressure should be there. Doesn't seem like high pressure should it be?

Thanks,
Jeff

Hello,

The threads are long...I don't know where I should chip in..

I just tried to start my car (Bosch LH2.4 with dual fuel pumps) by disabling the main fuel pump (pulling out the relay) and jumped a wire from the relay's power terminal to the in-tank fuel pump.

Basically just to simulate how the car would behave with only in-tank fuel pump powered. Well the engine did try to catch on (tried to run) but never got to fully running condition.

The in-tank pump pressure has to overcome my main pump's resistance on its the way to engine. I think there should be some glimmer of start if you did mistakenly replaced the Regina main in-tank pump with Bosch in-tank pump.

The Volvo Pocketbook stated that the Regina in-tank pump should pull up to 8.8 ampere of power whereas the Bosch in-tank pump only draws 3-4 amperes.

I hope this would be helpful although this test is far from valid.

Regards,
Amarin.

Hello,

Recap: injector is clicking (listened via stick), fuel is there at the fuel rail-fuel hose fitting, no fuel at FPR vacuum hose, CPS is ok, spark is there (runs with starting fluid - thanks Aleekat!), RSR is functioning (12v at injector plug)..

Have you RULED OUT debris blocking the injector's mouth (the tiny filter on its top)?

If debris is there you'll HAVE to replace your main fuel filter too (beside the main fuel pump underneath the car).

Even if you manage to get the fuel pressure gauge (screw connected to the Schrader valve) it just reads fuel pressure within the rails. But this high pressure won't do you good if debris is blocking fuel going thru the injector.

It is IMPORTANT to visualise the tiny filter. If it is torn then surely debris had stuck in the injector. You'll need professional help to clear this or replace the injectors.

Remember you did mention some filter debris i.e torn filter material was there when replacing the pump.

Hope this helps,
Amarin.

Hello,

The fusible link (according to Mitchell 940 1992 wiring diagram) is only for the radiator cooling fan. The RSR gets its power direct from a branch off main positive battery cable.

Regards,
Amarin.

Yes. You can test each injector's resistance using voltmeter. Non-turbo cars have high impedance injectors (around 12 to 16ohm). They should all be the same.

Functionally-wise you can dismantle the injectors out of the manifold but leave the upper part still connected to fuel rail and harness (by not removing the clips at their upper portion). Put them each in a bottle (mineral water bottle) and crank the engine. Watch for fuel spray.

If no any fuel spray or just small dribbling came out then you've got blockage.

Regards,
Amarin.

Hello,

"The car will start with the application of starting fluid and run"

I'm sorry but do you mean it just runs continuously after that or only for a while? Are you having this symptoms with the new fuel pump installed? Check the fuel injection relay if its working or not.

Hope this helps,
Amarin.

Thanks for the reply, I should have been more specific about the starter fluid, car dies after starting fluid is gone. I replaced the fuel pump relay several months ago due to intermittent stalling problems, ran fine until this latest episode. Fuel pump is running, I disconnected the outlet from the fuel filter(engine side) and the fuel is flowing through the filter. I have also jumped past the radio suppression relay to energize the injectors but no luck.

Thanks for the help,

Jeff

Hello,

So fuel pump is running but no fuel injector clicking? Put hand on fuel injector while cranking (ask for helper). See if the injector clicks.

Check your crank position sensor (CPS). Deteriorated wiring insulator is usually suspect. Disconnect its wiring plug and measure resistance across its contacts. It should be 170 +/- 30 ohms.

Hope this helps,
Amarin.

Thanks amarin, I will check the click for the injectors and see what's up. As far as the crankcase position sensor goes I replaced it about a year ago, however no big deal to check the resistance.

Thanks again,
Jeff

Normally bad CPS, no spark. You have spark because runs with fluid. Fuel delivery issue. My 2cents, injector signal issue.
--
Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.

Thanks for the reply,

Tested the cps and it is well within specs. Had wife crank the car and I can hear the fuel injectors ticking away. Tested the fuel delivery after the fuel filter,got a good soaking(again)pulled the cap and rotor, like brand new. Still cant get the fuel rail loose to check for fuel. I am at a loss here.

Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jeff

Hi,


At this point in the postings, it is very possible that the fuel pressure regulator has perforated / failed. What is the fuel pressure at the rail?

Use two wrenches very close together so you can use your palms to crush them together and loosen the fuel line fittings.

Read through the rest of tbe postings. You really should pinch the return line off with pliers and let the pump build to relief pressure. Make sure you can feel the fuel being pinched off. The car should start and run.



Goatman

R U still here Mr. Goatman? Not heard from you. R U OK please? & your 240 GL.

Just noticed you'd not posted in some time.

Thanks,

Apple Cider Sat-your-Day Morning Boyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee