posted by
someone claiming to be oldduke
on
Thu Oct 16 11:28 CST 2014 [ RELATED]
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hi sages - been reading the leaking water pump thread here and saw that a brand hepu was highly recommended. building up a file of board notes on anticipated jobs on my 92 245. looked up water pumps for it in rock auto. they do not have a hepu, but do have airtex, gates, bosch, uro, cardone and beck arnley for various prices.which of these would you recommend as better or best from experience.thanks tons oldduke
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Hepu all the way. I have installed so many of these things and never had a failure of any sort. Maybe someone has, but I haven't. My experience runs over at least 15 years, if that's any help.
--
Phoenix, AZ; 2005 S80 2.5 67k; Many past 2/7/9 models; 2015 Subaru Forester premium manual... 2k
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I have heard a lot of great things about Hepu, and a few not great things about non-OE water pump gaskets/seals. Although, I have a slight suspicion that many of the gasket/seal issues were user error, rather than manufacturer error.
I make 1-2 dealer orders per month from Tasca or Volvo of Lisle, so I just tossed the Volvo WP in my last order (pads/rotors for my '90 245 and '98 XC). It was $20 more than the Hepu, and I feel more safe with the gaskets/seals. Perhaps I will send Art a picture or four of the Volvo unit, from the same perspectives, for comparison on his site.
I prefer ordering parts from the dealer, especially since online dealers are so affordable ($30/rotor, including new caliper bolts!). If I continue supporting Volvo OE parts, perhaps they will keep making them :)
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airtex, gates, bosch, uro, cardone and beck arnley are most likely the same pump made in same Asian/Latin plant with different box.
beck arnley, cardone, airtex are brand names and buy what is cheapest to make
Gates is hose belt maker so it is probably one of above in different box
uro is crap
spend a few more for the hepu, it is worth it...
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Second on the HEPU
A recent trip to Florida saw the HEPU pump with 150K on it fail with excessive flow out of the weep hole. Used about 1/2 gallon per 100 miles but it got me home.
I replaced it with a new HEPU.
Marty
Proud member of the 300K club x2
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What Stoney and Marty said., Vote #3 for the hepu.
Fred
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This story seems appropriate here, if you are not tired of hearing it...
Hepu vs GMB unboxed
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
Every calendar's days are numbered.
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Hi Art,
I am not getting it. Why is that more efficient design? Can you please explain? Thank you as always.
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Hi yourself SB,
Must point out that I did not say it WAS a more efficient design, but that it LOOKS like one. Weasel words from an admitted neophyte student of hydronics.
Generally speaking, all of engineering is trade-off. One trades longevity for economy, efficiency for reliability, material strength for weight -- depending on the marketplace. Are the components destined for space travel? Are they one-use throw-away? Why did a government-spec'd claw hammer cost us $7K?
You see, I had this previous experience with an Airtex water pump early in my affair with Volvos. This one did not move enough water at idle to circulate the coolant through the head. Cast vs. cast. Well, it appears to me the water-pushing surface area is part of the efficiency of any centrifugal pump. You might choose the pump on the left if it ran 3000 rpm, but my idle was around 600.
Replacing the brand new Airtex on the left with the Hepu on the right solved a problem. The problem was overheating when idling. If you buy a Volvo pump, it has a stamped impeller, but given the car is out of production 20 years, I doubt that choice had anything to do with "efficiency."
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
"Often people who have lived with uncomfortable heating systems do not realize what they have been missing." -- John Siegenthaler
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Hi Art,
Very interesting. I am not an expert but I spend lots of time swimming. I would figure that the stamped impeller has too many broken surfaces thus creating more resistance as it propells in water. ?
Just a thought. :D
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Resistance is exactly what is needed! :D
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Hi Art,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol-Wm5DTOTY
You don't need to watch the entire video, please watch the frame starting on 5:27 through 6:30.
In my opinion and observation, I like the Hepu propeller design better since it "looks" like it can cut through water without much resistance. It's one piece and has smooth surface. BTW, I don't like the angle of both propeller fins.
However, I do like the wider opening on the GMB pump. That "looks" like it has better water flow.
Just a thought. :D
Thank you as always and Happy Friday.
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"In my opinion and observation, I like the Hepu propeller design better since it "looks" like it can cut through water without much resistance."
In mine, I want the resistance to be there. But no cavitation. Bubbles form when a pump is inefficient, as well known to your swimming coach. You might want your torso to cut through the water, but you want your hands and feet to meet resistance to your arm and leg muscles.
But ever since that Airtex episode I imagined building a plexiglass test plate to evaluate the pumps at varying RPM (which makes all the differences with cavitation). Then I could say more than "looks like."
By the way, I was not recommending GMB over Hepu. The unused Hepu is still on my shelf. The GMB in the car is not producing any issues either. But I shy away from buying an Airtex, which by the way, I bought locally on a Sunday before a trip, just for the square o-ring used on the heater pipe.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A man will pay $20 for a $10 item he needs. A woman will pay $10 for a $20 item that she doesn't need.
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Hi Art,
"In mine, I want the resistance to be there. But no cavitation. Bubbles form when a pump is inefficient, as well known to your swimming coach. You might want your torso to cut through the water, but you want your hands and feet to meet resistance to your arm and leg muscles."
I can't agree more. When I say, "having less resistance", I am referring to the underside where the propeller is spinning against our red block. That's a void area. I "think" the water will be better it comes from the top and flows to the sides, not to the backside of the engine block.
Also, it's how you grab that water. I really don't think that angle is helping but it's not for a space bus as you have mentioned earlier.
So much for resistance. . . I don't why I am so obsessed with that propeller.
Just wondering, if I make you that plexi plate, two plates so that we can compare side by side. How would you manage the water flow from one end to the other?
Thank you as always.
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Hi SB,
It is a bit like Mythbusters investigating one's intuition about cause and effect. You may cut plexiglas for yourself, but I agree the plumbing would get complicated if, say, this was a realistic test performed by the white coats in Yonkers. 3 inputs and one output, although the heater pipe could be ignored (summer when you do this).
I see you like the cast impeller for different reasons than I considered. I'm sure there are well known rules for shaping volutes and impellers in centrifugal pumps -- well known to engineers who do that sort of thing.
Don't let it haunt you but give it some thought while you're in the water. Best form of exercise there is, so I've heard.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end.
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Hi Art,
If you really want to conduct a test. I can trace the water pump gasket and make a digital CAD. Then I can ask my friend to cut on his laser machine.
"I see you like the cast impeller for different reasons than I considered. I'm sure there are well known rules for shaping volutes and impellers in centrifugal pumps -- well known to engineers who do that sort of thing."
I think of a turbine like fan shape would serve the best, of course in my view. :D
"Don't let it haunt you but give it some thought while you're in the water. Best form of exercise there is, so I've heard."
Thank you. You are funny. Happy Friday.
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Fri Oct 17 18:12 CST 2014 [ RELATED]
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Stop Stop Stop
need I go on
If you want DA RULE OF DA THUMB
change Dat ting
when you do Dat Seconda (aka second) changa-de-outa of de Timing Belt
Whichaaaaaa corespondeeeee to da changa of de Timing Belt TENSINAIRE
Ex Cusa may Itasliano
Alfa Romero da Car with the weird in-board Brakes
Go FigggA
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posted by
someone claiming to be CB
on
Fri Oct 17 18:30 CST 2014 [ RELATED]
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get the CD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZwYT-VCKI
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posted by
someone claiming to be oldduke
on
Fri Oct 17 11:47 CST 2014 [ RELATED]
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hi sages- been following these excellent comments.one question and acomment. i notice both the hepu and the gmb come with two rubber grommets and a gasket with 7 holes. the big grommet is pushed into the connection to the head and the small one is for the heater pipe on the side. both appear to use a press fit connection which snugs up when you tighten the bolts. should a sealer/ adhesive be used or is the press fits dry good enough .maybe a teflonlubricant would be better when thebolts are tightened. have usually used a permatex type on other pump jobs. also do you stick the paper gasket onto the pump body with permatex too but leave the engine to gasket side dry? think the water wheel on the hepu would be better than the fan type impeller on the gmb. think of a water wheel on a mississippi riverboat. would the boat go faster or slower if you replaced it with a series of fan wheels . those with training in hydraulic engineering 101 should chime in. thanks tons olddduke
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I've probably installed fifty GMB pumps. Never a problem and they are far better than anything Volvo ever made. The reason for the impeller design is that it works while the disc type don't.
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Hi Peetz,
That's great to know because I bought a GMB pump when IPD had their sales event about 1 year ago. It's ready to go in any time soon.
BTW, what kind of a car do you drive? It's for the BB card.
Thank you as always.
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I've owned just about every Volvo RWD there is, and worked on all of them for years. Probably had fifteen drivers, and at least as many parts cars. Maybe 100 plus customers with various models over time.
Today I drive a 1999 Dodge Dakota pickup with a 5.2 Magnum. The driving position and seat remind me of a good 240. The heater core blew out, but the fan is good. That reminded me too.
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