My car is stalling and seems to be heat related. This has been going on since May. It started happening more frequently after I got my battery replaced and even more after I changed from first shift to second shift. My mechanic has replaced a battery cable, replaced a cable where the rubber had worn off, and replaced 2 relays (fuel related). I don't know if this is related, but I also have been having problems with an invertor - it shows a low battery (replaced but no help). This seems to happen whenever I do a lot of stop and starting as in shopping. I can feel it start to choke, the tach flutters, and I start losing power. Finally all the dash lights come on and the engine dies. If I try to restart, it may or may not start. If it does start, it is rough and will die again. My mechanic finally saw it immediately after it died but he said until it totally fails, there isn't much he could do. I am illiterate when it comes to cars. I have a 30 mile drive to work. I have been splitting my drive - drive half way and let the car cool down before continuing my drive. I am desperate to get this fixed because if I am late to work one more time, I will get fired.

I am going to get a RSR relay. I figure it is as cheap as getting stuff to test it out. Anyway, I can keep the original one as a backup. Is the Volvo OEM better than the Kaehler?
I did get some dialectric grease. Hopefully I can get that done this weekend.
Thanks everybody!

The above would seem to be the last post in this thread. Hoping that 'abc finally got the problem solved. I still have my '88 740 in Canada and had similar symptoms which varied as time went on. It even "baffled" the experts. Initially, it would sometimes fail to start, after a "normal" run, but went OK after a 10 min. "rest". The first "cure" was the RSR, which "seemed" to do.

Then one day was looking for a space at crawl speed in a multi-level parking, and it just quit. Two hours later, got out of the garage and it quit just past the pay booth. Managed to limp home. Had a look under the hood for loose/corroded connections. Next day left for work only to have it conk out after a km or two. Got it re-started and got part way back home, and this time it did not start any more.

Got it towed to a reputed Volvo independent shop, where they changed the distributor and "power stage". However, it only lasted for a few more kms, luckily back to my driveway. So, got it flatbedded to another known shop. BTW, it ran long enough to get out of the driveway and lined up behind the truck.

This time they changed the ECU, and again it seemed to cure the problem, even test driving around a few blocks in the garage neighborhood. Then went to settle the bill and set out to go home. Well, the no start condition came back much to the embarrassment of the mechanic.

They changed the RSR and power stage, on the assumption they were of inferior quality, although only a few months old. Finally, the last piece to suspect was the "fuel" relay on the tray under the radio - after all the lost time and expense, that was IT. Don't know how much this relay is worth in the U.S. or how applicable it is to later models, but there you are.

For some reason, the fuel relay function is tied in with the ignition, so it seems that "no spark" leads everyone to assume an ignition fault. BTW, there is no "diagnostic" plug on my car, so don't know if having one would have helped. I think I know enough about cars & electronics that a faulty distributor would not go dead completely - more likely to misfire, and the power stage would stay dead rather than keep briefly coming back to life. Same for the ECU. Ah, progress.

Just to re-iterate, It was NOT the RSR, NOT the power stage, NOT the distributor, NOT the coil and NOT the ECU. Also possible but NOT: Blocked fuel lines/filters, bad fuel pump(s), bad injectors. Obviously, any of the above could eventually fail. What a schlemozzle!!

Addendum: Here I am replying to my own post. Just thought of a couple (three) more things that were ...NOT... the cause of the problem. 1) Broken corroded ignition or fuel system wiring/connections - good to check anyway, and 2) Intake manifold air/vacuum leak (not so obvious) 3) Worn out ignition switch (often suspected).

What I did find, coincidentally(?), was that the headlight (4- sealed beam GM style rectangular) wiring, sockets and grounds were failing, so refitted all of that. At one point, switching on the headlights was also activating the w/wipers and the turn signals went all goofy, not to mention that the headlights were poor as well. Only an electrical whiz could say whether or not any of this had a direct/indirect relation to frying any of the engine operating system electronics.

BTW, this has been a most interesting thread. It just goes to show how complex the systems on modern cars have become. My first car, a 1960 Citroen ID19 was considered most advanced at the time - yet only had one wire from the battery/generator to the distributor points to the primary coil winding. Then the high voltage winding sent the juice to distributor cap and spark plugs. Fuel delivery was by a mechanical pump to the carburetor - simple.

BTW, there was a fair amount of discussion about battery/charging voltage. An excellent idea to wire in a voltmeter, which I did to the cig lighter terminals. Since we don't smoke, I put the meter where the ashtray was sitting.

The last post (I promise). In the end, it cost me $3300 (Can) plus two towings to find and replace a $50 part which took about 15 min. labor. Also, it was .NOT. the Hall sensor or any similar function. OK, they insisted on doing a complete front brake replacement and the previous garage had replaced the broken first exhaust section after the engine collector header. However, this was before anyone found the real stalling problem - the fuel pump relay inside the console.

You guys have been wonderful. You have provided me with a lot of information. I am going to summarize everything so I can make a list as to the things I need to check.
"The Rod" - The RSR relay looks like it is in really good shape but I know looks can be deceiving. I don't exactly know what relays the mechanic replaced. My receipt just list relays. I am pretty sure one was a fuel pump relay.
I have always been suspicious about the fuel pump. My mechanic had mentioned it when I started having the problems. When I checked the service records I have, I found the fuel pump had never been replaced. If nothing else, it is way overdue. I don't think I can do the fuel pump myself and from what I have found on the internet, it is a very expensive job. Also, some cars has the fuel pump inside the tank which would have to come out. That is way above my comfort level.
It looks like we have ruled out the charging system and found the problem with the inverter - thanks Machine Man.
From the research I have found about the ignition amplifier makes me a little suspicious too.
Machine Man, I think you are right. There is enough listed that I think I will find my answer in the posts. I am checking Youtube for videos on how to do some of these things. I may need help with finding or testing things. My time is limited since I have to split my drive to work. Also, I don't have 2 days in a row off. I will also keep you updated on my findings and what eventually fixed the problem. I sure have learned an awful lot about cars.

Thanks everybody!

Hello,

I'm surprised that the ignition amplifier hasn't been mentioned. It suits the symptoms you've described...hot engine dies and you had to sit a while to let it cool. Check its connections or replace with new/known working part.

Hope this helps,
Amarin.

I am not sure what an ignition amplifier is but I will definitely check into it.

Hello,

The ignition amplifier is as in photo below. Its for Bosch system equipped cars. You'd have to look at the ignition coil to know whether its Bosch or Regina (Bendix) equipped car.

(Photos from the web and IPD site)





Regards,
Amarin.

If this is Bosch not Regina it is just beside the battery mounted on fender, apply a fresh coat of thermal paste and see if that helps.

This is a good part to have on hand as a spare in the glove compartment along with relays. Junk yard or eBay is a good source.

Dan

I second Amarin's suggestion. Classic symptoms: cruising down highway and engine cuts out immediately. More likely and frequent with high ambient temperatures. Wait ten to 20 minutes and it will start up as though nothing was wrong. I bucked the conventional wisdom of replacing with Bosch Power Stage in favor of a HUCO or HUGO(don't remember sp). It was half the price and now has 50k miles on it.

For someone who does not know much about cars, you know your car well enough to put out numerous and very good clues to me! Your experiences are good training and that, you should not just kiss off as you are not knowledgable!

The part about changing first to second shift means to me you are at one time or another use may your headlights. Some people alway use headlights when driving.
Depending on what the companies call first shift. To me its a graveyard shift or the first one of the day. A clue, you see, you felt relevant!

Using headlights or the A/C includes the fan will pull down the battery if there are numerous short term travels. You mentioned an inverter, what does it power? A can or lunch cooler? Does it have a low voltage light indicator or meter on it? A good clue!

I assume you do not have a voltmeter built into you dash, shame on that. It could give you a "constant readout" on your charging systems health. Electricity is just as important as gasoline!

A cheap, $4.00 hand held voltmeter from Harbor Freight will help give you a clue to what might be a little on the south side of good when hook to the battery or in most places anywhere in the car. You want to see 13.5 DC volts to 14.2 V most anytime or load usage.
If not between those two reading there is a problem.

Having an engine acting like it choking can easily be fuel pumps cutting off & on. Sometime it starts and sometimes it does not! Another good clue!
Do have any idea how old the pumps are or if the mechanic check and clean the connectors?

Has your mechanic taken the fuses out of their clips and cleaned the fuse tips. I usually hold them between my finger tips and scrub them against my denim jeans.
I clean the springs clips with a gritty fingernail filing board and coat with a oily spray. LPS 1 is my favorite but there are all kinds of concoctions that will work. Engine oil if nothing else!
This is something you could check yourself. I do not know where they are on a 900 series. On 240's they are in the driver door jam.

As you can tell I am like others it appears electrical. Your mechanic is suspicious too but sometime it can be the tiniest thing. Being intermittent its corrosion or age and wear that you can get on any car out of warranty!
Darn cars you first pay a salesman, a repairman or a parts man.

I drive older cars because I hate the first two for getting over paid.
The parts man, I beat him up at junkyards.
My labor and time to read on how things work, is money earn. It is closely related to Chinese wages dollars wise though but my savings of cutting out the others has paid for houses and my home shop over the years.
Did forget to mention the bankers who have more arms to get into your wallet than an octopus! (:-)

All my real estate has not depreciated either! My cars hold their on but vintage is, a matter of tastes, like wines!
Post back as there are others like me that live to fight these economic battles!
Phil

What I do know is how to troubleshoot as I have done that with computers for over 20 years. My hours changed from 10am – 6pm (usually later) to 4pm – midnight. It never stalled on me driving back and forth to work on the 10am-6pm shift. I have only been on the 4pm-midnight around 3 weeks. It has stalled on me once going to work (and it was an extremely hot day – North Carolina). I associated that to it being hotter during my drive to work. It was usually cooler when I would drive home (both shifts). My drive to work is apx 30 miles on the interstate, so it is not stopping and starting driving. I usually don’t drive with my headlights on – just rain and low light. I do drive with the air conditioner on (especially now since my sun roof gave out on me).
I use the inverter for my laptop. Usually, if I am driving the car, there isn’t a problem. When the car is parked and idling, it will squeal and display LOB – Low Battery. My neighbor has provided me access to his internet and sometimes it is hard to get a signal from inside my house so I go to the car. Also, I have noticed that sometimes when I have the problem with the inverter, the cigarette lighter is extremely hot but that too seems intermittent.
I did get a volt meter but what do I hook it up to? It sure wouldn’t hurt to check that.
I haven’t had any problems starting (except after it stalls). Lately, it has been a little bit harder to crank but that too is intermittent. It just takes a little bit longer to turn over (that may be my imagination) but it eventually turns over – just seconds.
I am not the original owner but I do have some of the repair records. I think I had already checked on the fuel pump and I do not have any documentation that it has been replaced. The water pump was replaced 7-2013.
I don’t think he has checked and cleaned the connecters. I am pretty sure he hasn’t done anything to the fuses but that is something I can and will do – it may not help but it sure couldn’t hurt and I know they could use it (FYI – they are behind the ashtray).
Thanks for all your input, let me know how I need to hook up the volt meter.

Looks like you have gotten lots of help from others on the Board.
You see, I told you that you were talking, a good talk, with those clues!

Glad to hear you tinker with things too! I think your are doing swell and keep it up.

Since you recieved help on the voltmeter usage I will leave that alone.

It does seem that the battery could be getting old if it pulls downs easily while using a computer transformer hook up. I think the converter may know more but cannot tell us! In essence its a voltmeter with a preset low limit warning.

If the battery is five or more years old, has ever sat in the car for long stretches of no usage, that alone, may push a six year battery closer to death sooner than its warranty.
Slow cranking is usually the first warning.

I am sure you know that the belts have to be kept good a snug on the alternator.

The next warning if you dome light gets really dim or goes out when cranking is another.

Driving at night or listing with the lights on and you see them flicker or dim and brighten slowly while idling, is a poor mans or woman's, voltmeter warning system!

Alternators do have carbon brushes in side that should be replaced about every 80,000 miles for good maintenance. Some go longer but that depends on many other factors.
Different quality batteries and care of them over the years it has charged them is a very hard to determine one on a used car from someone else.

If you put brushes in yourself they cost about $5 a set. Otherwise you buy the whole replace regulator unit for about $40. Then rebuild the old one at your leisure and confidence level.

I prefer to get whole alternators off Junkers that look recently replaced for that price! You get everything in parts to start over with.
In your case, it would be cool as you could rob Peter and Paul parts and be Mary, the lead singer, with a your own backup, on the shelf. Cars do, rock and roll you know! (:)

Just got to be willing to scrounge the junkyards like the other grease balls on the board! (:-). People are just giving their cars away, through insurance companies, to our underground life style!
It is Better, than a fruit market for me, if their fresh!

Some one suggested a shop manual as they help walk you through lots of answers, you just have to have the right question for them! (:-) I don't know if, Bentleys publications, cover 900's or not?

The cigarette lighter, it should not get hot from the few amps that the computer draws. You may find out from looking inside the cylinder with a flashlight that the contacts might be corroded with tobacco tar or ashes. An old typewriter print eraser pencil might clean them up way back in there.
Replacements can be found and....You know where! They might throw it in with and alternator purchase. You never know?

The PNP's are my playground as you can tell!

Thank you for telling me where the fuse panel is. I knew the 700's had relays jammed back behind the console panel. Maybe I thought I was looking at them and it was really a 9 series? I get too focused 200's.

Read all about what these guys have to say, there is really good help for those with good clues!
The power amplifier mention gets that thermal paste, purchased from electronic stores or Radio Shacks, if they do not go out of business soon! You put between the aluminum bracket (heat sink)and the black device.
You remove those two screws shown in Amarin's photos.
Some coat the fender and the bracket also.

Art Bernstein say he thinks its mostly the connector that gets cleaned (disturbed) while servicing the unit that fixes it. He is usually not wrong! He is a deep tinkerer and thinker!

On the 240's its behind the battery! On 900's I am lost again?

Happy Motoring!
Phil

Thanks, I was supposed to be a boy and ended up a daddy’s girl.

The car did sit for apx 1 year in 2012. The motor was replaced with a used one. That mechanic knew absolutely nothing about Volvos and apparently did not replace the gaskets which most have been replaced since then.

The battery was replaced in May with Advance Auto Gold AT0CF. It was stalling on me some before the replacement but not as much as it is now. Actually, that is when most of this started. It cut out on me that day – I had ran a lot of errands and it was very hot that day. It stopped on me. Once I got it started, I took it to the mechanic. He found a problem with one of the battery cables and replaced that.
I have had several oil leaks and had been gradually getting those fixed (all of them are fixed except one where they have to drop the motor to the tune of $500).

When they fixed one of the leaks in March they replaced Timing Belt, Oil Cap Seal, Tensioner, and Alternator Belt, Gasket, Timing Belt, Fan Belt, and Tensioner. The crank shaft sensor, and 2 relays were replaced in July in an effort to address the issue.

My invertor does have a digital display. It is a Schumacher, I think the model number is XI75DU. It shows the wattage out and the volts in and out. I am getting: The code of LOB• – The vehicle’s battery voltage is less than 10.5-volts. I will see if I can watch the display more carefully.

I don’t have the dome light set to come on when I open the door. It is usually kept off unless I need to see something. I just tested starting the engine while the light was on and it does slightly dim when I start the car.

This is a used car. I do not see where the alternator or fuel pump was ever replaced but I don’t know if I have ALL the records. They go back to 2007.

I don’t know if the mechanic checked and cleaned the connectors

I have been sick so I haven’t got around to cleaning all the fuses. By spring clips, do you mean what the fuse is in? I will try to check the battery tonight. The voltmeter I got has a bright orange back light.

I am not sure why the cigarette lighter gets hot but it doesn’t seem consistent. When it does get hot, that is when the inverter gives the low battery warning. The lighter came out of the socket so it is just laying on the console.

There is also another fuse that has a wire attached to it that gets hot too. I just noticed it the other day and I don’t know if it there is a pattern or not. I don’t know what the wire goes to and my mechanic said that Volvo does not connect wires to fuses. The fuse is 30 amps. I will have to check what that fuse goes to. I do have a fuse tester that came with an assortment of fuses.

There is also another wire in the fuse box area that appears to have been connected to something at one time but I don't know what.

I am not sure what you mean by typewriter print eraser pencil as I always used a regular eraser.

Thanks for all the good info. I will let you know what I come up with.

Thanks for posting back. This is good to have such a repor!

The part you put about your inverter model was very helpful.

I went out and saw a You Tube video on your exact model. 750 watts is a very large inverter.
But its better to be too large than not!

I saw I good demonstration of its operation. Julian's Random Projects did come up with a valid reason for the LOB alarm.
Have you ever heard the little fan inside run with your computer hooked up? He states it has to draw 40 watts for that to happen.

He pushes quite a load onto the unit. He found out that his input cables were too small to power the inverter. He used it half of its rated capacity.
He also had to put more juice in his battery or the voltage sagged and tripped the alarm.

So, the cigarette lighter socket wiring will not provide enough amperage to run your inverter at half throttle. In your case the lighter socket contacts it may not be working up to the par to hardly power anything. The lighter might be on a 8 ampere fuse with the horns, and chimes, so the wire will be small!

He also mentions that if the unit is on or maybe plugged in too, it draws about a half an ampere, 500 MA, doing absolutely nothing. So make sure that's its a least off, not just reading a zero.
He states, that you probably would not want leave it plugged into your car overnight or longer at anytime. It would be like leaving a dome light on as that is a big drain too!

It is possible to get a bad battery too! You could have one weak cell of the six in the battery.
Those voltages mention before are for when the cars battery is, more or less, up to par as being charged up to at least 2/3 of a full charge. 12.65 Is full at rest charge. "At rest" means no surface residual, straight off from being under a charging condition. Hot charged in other words.

Between 12.65 to 12.25 is a full to a very low to dead battery. It can as .4 equates to a 1/4 of quantity loss per (0.1) tenth a volt!
Little numbers can mean a big deal, if you are in the know?
The voltmeter gives you a spyglass into seeing what's going on or whats going to be bad soon when used in time. That is why all my cars have dash voltmeters!

Sorry about any sickness. Just check your operating voltage (13.5 to 14.2) at the battery with various loads to see if they are within the specifications mentioned?

Here is the explanation of why or what for!

That's 1v to 1.5v over a "rested" voltage. The battery needs that difference of voltage, for the current traveling with it, to get pushed into the battery to charge it up!
You can check your rested voltage first and expect the charging voltage to be raised, by a properly operating alternator, by that much when running? I hope, I made that seem logical for you!

Yes, I did mean the fuse holding clips having a spring like tension.
I mention a typewriter eraser because they are a little more gritty than normal erasers as they were used to remove ribbon ink.

The dome light going down to only slightly dim when cranking is normal that means the battery is nicely charged.

There is also a feature on the voltmeter to look for battery drainage when everything should be off.

If you need help on checking this probable cause of a low battery, there are others beside me that can bring up to speed on, how to rig the leads up on with the battery's cables.
You do not anything close to 100 MA when idle.

Keep on us with them clues!
Phil

Thanks for the info and the Youtube video on the inverter. It was extremely informative. I have had issues with inverters in the past with other cars so that makes a lot of sense. I had totally forgotten about checking Youtube for this stuff. I do hear the fan coming on whenever I plug up my laptop to the inverter. I want to replace the cables. Can I purchase those or will I have to make them? I try not to keep the inverter plugged in when I am not driving. I tried to get in the habit of unplugging it because the lighter on my 91 Dynasty still has power even though you turn the engine off. You would not believe how many times I drained that battery. It is easier for me to keep the same routines.

Lately, I have not been using the inverter because it beeps almost immediately. I thought my laptop battery or cord was bad so I bought another one. I just need to keep both batteries charged up.

I think I found the problem with the cigarette lighter getting hot. I found the end connector on it is frayed. I am not sure how to replace it or where to get parts. Can I just splice a new end on it? Where can I get the part?

I found some stick nail files today. I think it will be perfect to clean the fuse clips. Is there something specific I need to use to clean the fuse casing (liquid) before coating them with an oily spray? I just don't want to fry anything. Is LPS located in the auto section?

Yesterday morning (around 10am), I was messing with the voltmeter. Here is what I came up with:

12.6 - with nothing on – not even the engine
14.04 - with motor only running
13-13.5 - with everything running (lights, air conditioner, radio, wipers) - excluding the inverter
12.85 - with the engine running and nothing on except the inverter - plugged in and powered on - nothing else
12.80 - with the inverter on and the laptop plugged in (no power on the laptop and with the battery in the laptop) - I immediately got a LOB on the inverter but I am not sure if that has to do with the frayed connector.

I was curious so I removed the battery from the laptop, plugged the laptop into the inverter and got 12.83 but the inverter said 11.3 before I got the LOB. The laptop battery was probably low.

While I had the hood up, I was looking around at things. I think I have a Bosch as I saw something on the wheel well that looked like a can of coke (similar to Amarin's picture). I haven't done anything about taking it out. I definitely want to study it first to make sure I have a good visual of how it is supposed to come out and put back in.

I did see one thing that concerns me - a relay was just sitting loose on my battery. I think this may be the fuel pump relay (2.102.100, 85/86/87/30, RVDC/30). It has a clip on the back but I tried to hook it onto a metal cable holder that was on the wheel well but it came off. The wire is fairly short and it won't go far. Is this an issue? Where is it supposed to be connected?

I know how important it is to get as much information as possible. I work telephone support for a gas pump manufacture. We support the gas stations point of sale system and limited gas pump support. Sometimes it is extremely difficult to get the correct information for us to troubleshoot (not to mention there may be a language issue). A lot of times we just get: my system isn’t working – no specifics as to whether it is the register, the pumps, or debit/credit processing. I asked one customer what the weather was like (as weather can affect internet connectivity – needed to run cards). After asking him 3 times, his answer was: I don’t know anything about that.

I know I have given you more than what you need but I would rather it be more than less. I know now that I have an additional problem with the cigarette lighter.

Thanks to everybody for all your input. I am still working on all the suggestions and will report back. I will get more volt readings and report back.

As far as I see you are not having any problems with your charging system or the battery.

Those readings are just exactly what you should be getting so it is normal.

The frayed wire on the cigarette lighter is not normal. It is unusual for that to be unless, that lighters housing nut worked loose. The assembly probably rotated around inside the panel, therefore straining the wires.

A bad connection resistance will result in a voltage drop. On either the ground or the switched wire.
The inverter cannot get enough power and it thinks the battery is not up to snuff. It shuts down or goes into alarm.


You should be able to pick up crimp on terminal connectors at hardware or automotive parts houses.
If you want to ever run anything large on the inverter you will need larger wires.
You could purchase a 12 volt extension cord with an adapter that clips right directly onto the battery. Trick is finding one heavy wires. A place that sells Trailer or RV supplies can accommodate you with their past solutions.

I am not familiar with Radio Suppression Relays if that is what is there by the battery. It sounds more like a power relay used to run driving or fog lamps. Does you car have those? The thirty amperes DC raised my eyebrows.

The soda can item on the fender well, the left one in Amarin's pictures, is a ignition coil. It makes the high voltage spark to fire the ignitions spark plugs.
The photo above is called power stage relay. It's between the Ignition Control Module computer and the coil. Its purpose is to control the higher current levels needed to operate the coil.
I call it a middleman!

This item is located behind the battery on the inner fender shell. This item is just plugged up and Its claim to fame is to require maintenance about every ten years is heat sink paste. Its layered between the black item, that gets unscrewed and the aluminum mounting plate. I have read that some people put paste behind the plate too?

A well renown Brickster, Art Benstein, has a belief that I concur with that removing and inspecting the connector for corrosion might cure momentary shut downs of the engine.
So, its either corrosion or overheating and a tough call, but the power stage is a candidate.

Clean the fuse clips with anything that make them bright is good. Fine sandpaper, emery cloth or finger boards are good. I have even used steel wool in a pinch and between my fingers! (:-)

LPS is a little harder to find that at average homeowner retail stores. Its a tiny bit more expensive but Craftsman's, who adore their playthings called Tools, use it. I get it most of the time at places that sell machinery for wood and metal workers. Places that cater to contractors and alike!

Automotive Electrical repair stores sell LPS or offer a anti corrosive paste in a tube. The stuff I get is made by Truckee. The tube is about $5 but a little spreads a long ways but not as handy as the lighter spray.

Telling me some of your background was nice. It explains to me why I thought you had more on the ball than you were giving yourself credit for.
That story about going over some thing three times is not surprising.
Some people just want answers and are not willing to DIG for explanations.

Instead of learning how to reason things out, would rather be frustrate themselves or you, just to find out that and You, want to tell them .... "Well sir, if you "really knew" it senses it using optic eyes, why didn't you try cleaning them off first!" Duh?

A side note... Does it really help to rub the credit card with a plastic bag to get a card reader to read the card? Some say, move it through, really fast, does is better?

Have a good day
Phil

Just a quick update:

On Thursday, it stopped twice on me. I had a third tank of gas. I didn't get to split my trip to work and did too much running around (also it was in the 90's). The second time it stalled, I was within walking distance to work so I just left the car and picked it up after work.

I did get the ignition amplifier greased up today. In my non-professional, common sense opinion, it needed the grease. It appeared dry with some white powdery residue. I saw a video on YouTube on how to grease it. I did make sure it showed signs of stickiness before I put it back together. If needed, I can always put more grease on it.

I still have a lot to do on the car but greasing up the ignition amplifier was a big accomplishment for me. I really appreciate all your input, support, and sharing of your knowledge.

I still have intentions of replacing the RSR relay. I am looking for an OEM online. I am trying to find a place that will have other cosmetic parts - also an air filter. I do need to work on my seat belt. My mechanic said I need a new seat belt retractor (I think). I think the seat belt was twisted when it was put in. and just needs untwisted. I may even replace some of the other relays that look old and are getting hot. It may not fix any problem but it sure wouldn't hurt. I can always keep the old ones for backup.

You guys have been wonderful in helping me with this issue - especially since my mechanic won't look at it. Anyway, what I am saving on the mechanic will go a long ways on replacement parts. Your patience, support, and the sharing of your knowledge with someone whose knowledge of cars and terminology is extremely limited. I have really learned a lot about cars.

I will keep you updated on the progress.

Thanks again for all your assistance!
Just a quick update:

On Thursday, it stopped twice on me. I had a third tank of gas. I didn't get to split my trip to work and did too much running around (also it was in the 90's). The second time it stalled, I was within walking distance to work so I just left the car and picked it up after work.

I did get the ignition amplifier greased up today. In my non-professional, common sense opinion, it needed the grease. It appeared dry with some white powdery residue. I saw a video on YouTube on how to grease it. I did make sure it showed signs of stickiness before I put it back together. If needed, I can always put more grease on it.

I still have a lot to do on the car but greasing up the ignition amplifier was a big accomplishment for me. I really appreciate all your input, support, and sharing of your knowledge.

I still have intentions of replacing the RSR relay. I am looking for an OEM online. I am trying to find a place that will have other cosmetic parts - also an air filter. I do need to work on my seat belt. My mechanic said I need a new seat belt retractor (I think). I think the seat belt was twisted when it was put in. and just needs untwisted. I may even replace some of the other relays that look old and are getting hot. It may not fix any problem but it sure wouldn't hurt. I can always keep the old ones for backup.

You guys have been wonderful in helping me with this issue - especially since my mechanic won't look at it. Anyway, what I am saving on the mechanic will go a long ways on replacement parts. Your patience, support, and the sharing of your knowledge with someone whose knowledge of cars and terminology is extremely limited. I have really learned a lot about cars.

I will keep you updated on the progress.

Thanks again for all your assistance!

Hello volvoabc,

Good to know your progress! Just in case be prepared to order a new one. In its good working order that part doesn't fail even if the heat paste already dried up. Although I think a dried up paste would slowly leads to it damage later on (due to can't dissipate the heat).

Regards,
Amarin.

I am definitely keeping that in the back of my mind. Thanks, hopefully this will correct the problem. I know if I don't get this settled before winter sets in, it will be next summer before it gets addressed.

I finally found the Ignition Control Module. It was hiding from me. It was behind a bunch of wires. I will look at it better tomorrow when I have more light.
Thanks!

I have had slight problems with starting the car but today, it is worse. My mechanic won’t look at it until it dies. Every time I leave it there, I don’t get it back for a 1-1.5 weeks. My backup car doesn’t have air conditioning and by the time I get to work, I would need another shower. I do need to get the battery jumped and charged – I am going to do that tonight, just in case.

I am sure the frayed wire is contributing to the invertor problem. I got a connector today but it is too large. I also got an adapter plug w/banana jacks – this will allow me to use the same connectors that are on the invertor. I just need to know what size to get. Right now, I am using the laptop batteries so nothing is plugged into the cigarette lighter. Yes, the lighter came out of the casing and the casing too. The car has had better days as far as the interior and exterior but I am more interested in what is under the hood.

The stereo system isn’t the original. I do not know about a car alarm but I don’t think it had one. I know the car was broken into – I think the window was pushed down and the ash tray was stolen – it was filled with change.

It does have fog lights. I do run those on a regular basis as the car has been wrecked (I wasn’t informed of that when I bought the car). The grill and the lights are held in with wire and zip ties. My lights can’t be adjusted so I need as much light at night as I can get.

I think I found where the relay is supposed attach to. I was at Advanced Auto Parts and they hooked it to the wall where the hood closed. I think that is OK now.

I thought I had found the ignition control module but I was wrong. I am going to look for it again. Will let you know. I have been looking at some wiring diagrams. When I went to college, we had to take an engineering class so I know a little about those.

There is a store close to my work that sells LPS – Dillon Supply - http://www.dillonsupply.com/ they have several different kinds listed on their web page with different costs. Since you said paste, I will look for that.

I am going to check again for the ignition control module. I feel like I have a time bomb about to go off and I don’t want to get hurt when it explodes.

Thanks everybody – got things to try

Hi there,

I see you are still having problems but you are making good plans to find the problem.

That Dillion supply seems to be the right kinda place. I do not think they will have the type of dielectric tube paste I was talking about. The site would not download tonight their specialty lubricant category.

A disclaimer:
You need to remember that I have never worked on or own a 900 series car. I can only advise from the 240 perspective.
The locations may vary on those two items you are looking for are like the fuse panels do.

The ignition control module and the power stage modules are two different animals but they work together.
The power stage was behind the battery on a 240 and it sounded that the relay and battery are still located there.

The ignition control module is under the glove box and fastened to the firewall up high.

Before disconnecting any of these components disconnect the minus - or negative ground cable from your battery.
When you access the power stage to service it, it might be easier to remove the battery completely.

If you just want to inspect the connector your hands are probably small enough to reach behind it and squeezed the spring and wiggle the connector loose.
The harness may be routed under the battery support bracket. If you do not have enough slack to see inside the connector it might side down under it if a ground wire is not attached somewhere.
In this case take the battery out.

Anyway just get it lose and see if things are shiny in there. Give it a light spritz of LPS 1 and put it back. Taking it on off helps scrub the pins!

For an extra step do the same thing to the AMM connector. The AMM is the round black box on the accordion hose from the air filter to the throttle body.

The ignition control module mention earlier will have a similar connector that's a little larger. It will have a bigger looking spring and the harness may be clamped to the firewall.
If you can get it loose, service it the same way with a light spritz.

If you still feel really ambitious the ECU or fuel manager computer has an even bigger connector. A big clip or even a screw might hold it in place.
This item was located behind the right side kick panel in front of the passenger door hinge area of a 240!

This should take care of you harness issues to the technical things.
In most cases the last two are rarely a problem because they are inside the car out of the elements.

Since you didn't know this was wrecked by any chance has it ever had water damage, i.e. a flood victim?

You also stated the fuel pump/engine system relay was changed.
If you happen to be curious and just want to look around under the glove box, do this.

You will see the relay, usually white, strapped up to the harness somewhere in front of the ignition module. With the car running feel it to see if its getting warm, especially the connector. It might have a bad spade terminal inside it like the cigarette light socket.
Pull and shake the whole relay to see if the engine stumbles.

In fact, you could try that on everything there and out under the hood. Try to duplicate things like it being jostled around going down the road.

It is a troubleshooting technique that's worth a try! Your mechanic should have used this idea but has not taken his time to shake enough things?

More thoughts I need to ask.
How many miles are on the car?
Can you find out how old the main fuel pump is on the car?
Or should I ask, Has the mechanic ever mention, in conversation, if he thinks, they are cleaner, than any original pump?

Original ones will be coated with undercoating, dirt and even mud if the car was abused or left for dead!
An intermittent operating pump has to be given some serious consideration!

If there is an aftermarket unit under there the wiring could have been adapted to fit.
In other terms, jury rigged!
Pumps other than Bosch do not last as long and just have to be different to save a dime in any royalties.

If the interior of the car is run down, then what condition would you say the trunk is?
Same for the in-tank fuel pumps and wiring inside the trunk.
The main pumps wiring is under the left corner of the rear seat cushion. The bottom rod is tough to get pushed back from under their clips.


Do these symptoms happen more often when if the fuel tank is under a half of a full tank?
It might be a good clue if you have not noticed it!

If you needed more food for thoughts.... I just gave you a big ole juicy cheeseburger or a pulled pork sandwich!
Just like the sauce, you have to get slathered all over the car to find gremlins!
(:-)
Phil

"The ignition control module and the power stage modules are two different animals but they work together."

Sorry Phil but the ignition control module and the power stage are one and the same.

ICM is the official Volvo name for the doo-dad that "triggers" the coil to produce a timed spark, like the old time points used to do. I don't know where "power stage" came from, but guess maybe it has to do with the big power transistor inside.



Some vendors even call it the Power Control Module and various other techie terms to muddy the water. Personally I like Power Stage, or anything that doesn't have the word "control" in it, believing that word should be used only for "Control" Units, like the small EZK package up under the dash. But sadly that clincher isn't even mentioned in the Volvo "Quick Reference Parts Catalog" (TP 7777114 still available I believe for under $10).



--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

After rechecking Dillon Supply, they don’t have the same thing as what you have.
I am getting the part number and looking it up on the web. What I found above the battery, attached to the driver’s fender has part no 0227 100124 on it. It is located under what looks like a bunch of covered wires. Those wires are tied together with a zip tie or plastic belt. From what I can see, it does look like the one Amarin posted although I would have to remove the zip tie to verify that. When I search on that part number, it comes up with Ignition Module/Amplifier Unit. It looks like it has a “computer printer parallel port connector” on one end. Those connectors were used on old computer printers before they came out with the usb connectors.

The relays that look new behind the fuses are labeled – Fuel Pump Relay (can’t see the number on it) and the other one is 3523804 (when I do a google search, it comes up with overdrive relay). One of those is getting warm while driving. I think it is the Fuel Pump Relay. That relay isn’t making sense – the “small box” above the battery has 2.102.100 – a search on google came up with Fuel Pump Relay. I am going to have to double check the relay behind the fuse box. I am confused on what I found near the battery. I will have to pull out the relay near the fuse box and see what that number is.

I think I found the AMM connector – 3517020 came up on a google search as: Mass Air Flow Meter. It is right at the air filter and the connector looks similar to a “computer printer parallel port connector”. Of course, both the AMM and the Ignition Module/Amplifier both “look” different from a parallel port but that is just something I have a reference to – plus they have that wire hook on them similar to the parallel cable.
I will have to look for the ECU module.

I am not sure if it has had any water damage or not. The history I have only goes back to late 2007. Is there someplace on the web where I can find additional information? I think I remember doing that with another car.
I was assuming it was the Fuel Pump Relay that the mechanic changed out. My receipt just states relay. He changed 2 of them. I mentioned them above – one labeled Fuel Pump Relay and the other one has 3523804 on it.

I am going to check ALL the relays again to verify exactly which ones are hot. I know 2 of them are getting hot. I guess I need to do the wiggle test while it is parked and running, right?

I do have wiring diagrams and fuse / relay diagrams. Not sure if I can upload those or not.

The car just turned over 225,000 about a week ago. Since the engine was changed out, I am not sure how many miles are actually on that engine. As far as the fuel pump goes, I don’t have a record of it being replaced. My records go back to 2007 but that doesn’t mean I have ALL of the records. My mechanic has mentioned the fuel pump being a possible cause of the problem but hasn’t mentioned what kind of shape it is in.

I will have to inspect the trunk better. From just a visual, it looks really good. The only problem I see is with the light. It has never worked since I have had it – since 2011.

I haven’t really noticed if there is any difference in a full tank and a low tank. Since I drive so much and my fuel gage works when it wants to, I try to keep the car filled up. I filled it up last night thinking I would take at least $40 or more but I ended up with $32 (our gas is $3.29).

I don't think my mechanic has really checked/cleaned anything on the car. I think he was trying to get it to actually fail on him. He has only seen it after it fails. At that point, it is really hard to start and you have to give it gas. It will usually die real quickly and won't stay running until it sits for awhile.

When you talk about pulled pork, in North Carolina it is called barbecue. Also, there is a big debate as to whether Lexington barbecue or Eastern barbecue is better. Lexington barbecue is vinegar-based "red" sauce (ie ketchup). Eastern barbecue uses every part of the hog except the squeal. It is vinegar and pepper based. Also, the slaw we use is red with hot sauce. We take our barbecue very seriously. There is a big barbecue festival and all kinds of barbecue cook-offs throughout the year.
Thanks again for all your help. If nothing else, I have things to look at and if I decide I can’t do the work myself, I can tell the mechanic what I want done.

I think between all out posts the Answer is in there somewhere.
There is not much more that I can add as reasons for your problem.

The part number given, ending in 124,is the amplifier electronic relay. Of the two its is more a suspect on this board.
I have never had one fail but it is a "middleman" which I said before.

I personal hate blaming electronic components. If your fuel pumps are old at 225K is at the far limit of the life of a BOSCH main fuel pump.
When they fail their most often symptom is failure to start after being stopped.

There is a roulette wheel in there after getting old!
The carbon brushes inside them wear out! It's flat face of the commutator that wears thinner. A dead spot in the segments is created than connect to windings. Same thing for the in-tank pump except they wear out sinner.
Since you have a fuel gauge problem there might be a problem with wiring in the trunk to both those items! Below a half or closer to a quarter tank and a hill, it's about what is this?
That's why I asked about fuel tank levels and symptoms?
Those connectors are under the carpet. I don't know if you access the pump through a plate or access cover around there?

Like I said before, if the outer housing of the pump is sprayed black with a tar looking substance its original! Look at the rear clamp, the fuel tank hose, to see if the tar seal has been broken.

If it looks like a corroded aluminum can that's more gray and crusty, then its old.

You can inspect it with a bright flashlight and a mirror. It's mounted on a tray with the filter/acumulator on the 240's.
It's located on the drivers side directly under the rear seat.

If you need to change that pump, shop around, because they are about $200 new. I get mine at PNP's off "fairly fresh to the yard" cars for about $35. I hate the taste of retail bullets and where they hit me!
I live at the end of the termite trail. Gas is almost 90 cents higher here all the time over the East Coast. 40 to 60 cents over the rest of California. The coastline is cooler but burns money!
We have Hawaiian prices! No competition! At least they have distance and water as an excuse!

I know what your talking about in Barbecue. I was born and raised in Clarksville, Tennessee. It was always barbecue for me too!
Out west here, they have got me crossed up. (:-(

Cole Slaw was never used where I grew up, that might have been healthier or something!
When I first saw that offered to me, I said to my wife, they got to be kidding! Cole Slaw, that must be a Yankee thing! (:-). Guess not to some!

I like the red pepper vinegar sauce lightly splashed on. Other sauces carry sweetness or peppery override and add in some fake smoke additives. To me that would destroy the real tastes of hardwoods smoking. The west likes mesquite as a flavor also!

I am a person who likes the smoke taste and aroma in the sinuses of a meat done with honor! (:-)

A lot of the places out west here (Dickie's) does not let the meat rest and soak in the smoke after cooking. They are pushing a fast food orientated product.
There is another that does a decent job like Famous Dave's.
Only Famous Dave's is more into sauces and a pricey "piggy ambience."

IMHO (:-). Thanks for your opinion too!
Phil

The part number given, ending in 124, is the amplifier electronic relay.

Ye Gods! A new name "amplifier electronic relay"? That's not found anywhere that I know of. The 124 on the part that Pam mentioned are the final digits in the Bosch PN for our good old Power Stage (aka ignition control module) shown below.



This hot-running electronic part is mounted on a Heat Sink, and bedded in a special heat-transferring compound that is known to dry out and lose efficiency with age. This "heat sink paste" is common in the electronic business and can be replaced when aged if suspected in problems that self-correct after resting.

At about $5 a tube, I'd say it's worth trying.


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

I remembered the last time this happened, it was almost a full tank. I had just got gas the night before (around $45 worth). My mechanic suspected the same thing.

One last attempt. The relay that was dangling above the battery IS the RSR. Take that as gospel. You can test it as I mentioned earlier. The ignition control module is not your problem, they do not fail(at least with ANY regularity). You have a schrader valve on your fuel rail, next time it will not start depress the little plunger in the middle and see if you have fuel pressure there at the rail. You are IMHO making this a bit more complicated than need be. Fuel, fire, in the proper time. That's it.

I know nothing about inverters, but the relay is the RSR(Radio Suppression Relay).
It is another suspect in your stalling issues. This thread will show you how to jumper the relay in order to rule it out as the culprit.
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1474597/940/960/980/V90/S90/rsr_bypass_jumper.html

As The Rod says, that is the rsr. It's supposed to go up slightly behind the power stage/other name I forget, that's pictured earlier. The clip goes on a metal bracket.

I didn't see if it was established earlier, but the car is a turbo so therefore it's a Bosch system. Regina wasn't used on turbo's.

I didn't see if the cps, Crank Position Sensor, was replaced. Where the motor was replaced it'd have been easy to damage it, on top of the trans right behind the motor.

To me, the symptoms indicate power stage, rsr, cps, fuel pump relay under the dash. Then possibly AMM, Air Mass Meter, which happened to me.

Where there are random wires in the fuse box is concerning; sounds like there may have been an alarm or a custom radio at one time.

What is the cps? The crank shaft sensor was replaced on July 11th in an effort to fix the problem.

Dear volvoabc,

Hope you're well. The cps is the crank position sensor also known as (aka) the RPM sensor. The crank sensor is mounted atop the transmission's bell housing.

It can be seen (barely) by standing near to the air conditioning receiver/drier (the aluminum can-like unit, mounted next to the passenger-side strut tower, just in front of the firewall). Look towards the corner of the engine, between the receiver/drier and the firewall. You should - if you lean towards the engine - see the top of the crank sensor.

If the crank sensor fails - usually the result of wear-and-tear on the wiring harness, that allows water to get at the wires - the engine control module shuts-down the fuel pump. This is a safety measure: if a collision stops the engine, but opens a fuel line in the engine bay, the fuel pump shut-down keeps gasoline from being sprayed near a hot engine.

Hope this helps.

Yours faithfully,

Spook

Test voltage at the battery when it is resting (12.6 - 12.7 V fully charged), during starting Low 12. V) and at idle (13.5 - 14 V).
See what you have and let us know.
Dan

Is the car a turbo?

Also, can find out what the fault code numbers are?

Yes, the car is a turbo.

I don't know what the first one was but the second was 113 - short term fuel trim fault. He repaired the vacuum lines.

Sound to me like simple low voltage. Check the charging system for voltage - low 14's are good. Anything less and you have a bad brush/regulator set. While you're changing that change your mechanic too.

Or alternator ground wire with intermittent conductivity...

But if the battery (and charge) he is starting with is fresh, the odds are low that this will effect running.

You should read theFAQ - I would see a dealer before you throw parts at it.

Crankshaft sensor, bad ground power stage, etc.

In 600k of Volvo miles on 8 Volvos my dealer has never failed to fix my cars with 1 part.

They never charge more than 1 hour's labor, for troubleshooting and often nothing.

I have read over some of the FAQs but my knowledge of cars is limited. Taking it to a dealer around here isn’t an option. They are notorious for ripping you off and their knowledge isn’t up to what some of the independents are, not to mention that I am female. The owner of the largest group of dealerships is known for walking into the showroom and firing everybody.
Where I take it right now specializes in Volvos. The owners have Volvos themselves. Unfortunately, the mechanic hasn’t ACTUALLY seen it die – just slightly after the fact. You can’t fix something that isn’t broke (I work computer support and I tell my customers that on a daily basis).
I gave my approval to fix the wire as it was obvious it was going to cause me problems somewhere down the road. The relays were the original ones and at 20 years old, they were likely to go out too (no charge for labor was involved). I’m just trying to get some ideas as what could be wrong with it.

You could have a worn wire rubbing on something and causing it to stall. Do you have any fault codes. If it happens changing from 1st to 2nd i would look under the car around the gearbox area something must be moving to cause a short to stall the car.

It has had 2 codes. My mechanic said the first one wasn't nothing and he didn't tell me what code it was. The second one was 113-short term fuel trim fault which he repaired the vacuum lines.

Thanks for responding so quickly.
It is an automatic and doesn't seem to be related to speed. I have had it cut out on me when pulling into a parking space and going 60 mph on the interstate. It happens after I have had the car running for awhile and mainly doing a lot of stopping and starting.

The hand-held digital volt/ohm/ammeters you find at Harbor Freight are not hard to use, especially the digital ones. Cen-Tec makes a good basic volt, ammeter, and ohmmeter and will probably serve your needs. Checking the battery voltage involves turning the selector switch to a DC setting, usually 20 (volts). Hold the black probe of the tester to the negative terminal of the battery and the red probe to the positive terminal of the battery. Your car's negative battery cable may be blue rather than black, but will usually be the cable on your left as you stand facing the battery. For safety's sake, wear a pair of protective safety glasses as you're making this test. Record your voltages and the time you made the tests.
I looked at kjet.org and found wiring diagrams for the '94 940s and 960s. Check under Documents/Greenbooks. The diagrams were not as easy to follow as the ones in my personal "Wiring Diagrams" green book, but were still valuable information. The cost of your own copy for your car would be well worth it, I feel.
Hope this helps.