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I'm wondering whether my 1982 Volvo 240 DL has two problems or one. I don't repair my own car (except for tiny things) but at least want to avoid unnecessary repairs.
1. The first problem I can live with. For the past couple of years, the engine cranks for a long time before it catches. Sometimes it takes several tries, but the engine has always started. It does start more quickly when the engine or weather is warm.
2. Two days ago, it was a cool, foggy morning. (I park outside.) The engine cranked for a little bit, but then the cranking slowed and stopped. I tried again and the engine only produced a few slow feeble cranks. A few minutes later, the same thing. The engine wouldn't start.
The next day, after a warmer and drier afternoon, the engine started after only a few moments of cranking. The same thing happened this morning, when it was cool but not foggy out.
I thought that cranking that slows down and stops means that the battery is only partially charged. But in that case, would the battery recover when the weather is a little warmer or drier? Does the battery have that much harder a job when things are damp? My mechanic checked my battery several months ago and said it was fine.
The battery looked okay -- there wasn't visible corrosion on the posts. The only thing I noticed was that the wires coming into and out of each post are exposed for around a quarter inch (the incoming and outgoing wires don't touch). I was wondering whether damp weather could cause moisture to collect on these wires and maybe short them out. But in that case, I don't know why the engine initially cranked on that damp morning.
I've also heard that condensation can collect on corroded spark plugs (or something like that), leading to starting problems -- wonder if that could be happening....
I know there are many reasons why the engine might crank a long time before starting. My main concern is that two days ago it wouldn't start at all. I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have.
Thanks!
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Looking at a battery doesn't tell us much.Since you do not work on your car I would take it to Advance Auto,Auto Zone that will test your battery and alternator.
I would think on those damp mornings with all that cranking the engine and no start I would look at changing plug wires,distributor cap and rotor would be in order.That's an easy fix that you could do,the main thing is plug wires. Take one off at a time so you don't change the firing order.
If you run into a problem we can walk you through it.
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Thanks for your helpful response! As a first step in dealing with the damp no-start problem, I think I'll take my car (assuming it starts) to the nearby Autozone to have them test the battery/alternator. I had hesitated to do this because they apparently don't do this for free in California and they get mixed reviews. (Unfortunately, there are no Advance Autos nearby.
If the battery is fine, I'll look into the other possibilities you mention.
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All of the information posted so far is fine but coming back to basics might be useful to you. For the damp mornings problem, giving the distributor cap and leads a good spritz with WD-40 may help. WD = water dispersant so it's doing the job it's made for.
Having a running car alongside with the battery connected to yours with jump leads should essentially take a weak/bad battery out of the equation and allow you to start normally if the battery is the problem.
Watching your plug leads with the engine running in the pitch dark could be useful. Lots of sparks usually indicate tired leads. This can be much worse with damp leads so making your damp starts more difficult. The WD-40 will give them a new lease of life. If the leads are very dirty, wipe them down before spraying. You can wipe them down with a clean rag soaked in WD if you want to, but easier to spray the cap after cleaning.
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Derek, thanks for the useful suggestions re diagnosis and treatment...
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I think you are dealing with a fuel pressure/volume problem for way too long. Two years of slow starting is IMHO is abuse of equipment that you must depend on some what.
What's up with letting it go? These cars have parts the work together well as they last a long time, easily replaced and with a decent manual, will enhance your life beyond fixing tiny things! Again an opinion of mine but well traveled by many.
This whole problem above is wearing down your starting system to a point you will have to fix it or leave it parked.
Now you are adding on those ignition scenarios that could lead you just far away enough from home so you will have to walk back from the point IT decided was far enough to teach you to do some maintenance!
You are leaving yourself open to experience randomness and chaos at the same time and you will not be able to tell which one got you the worst! Trust me these things make life rough enough without inviting them which such opportunities.
You have come to the right place for help but you will need to learn what you are looking at to convey those "tiny" things we need to know about your car.
Right now there are too many possibilities and will have to be eliminated in some order less than chaos or randomness!
Roll with us and we can get you rolling!
Phil
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Hi Phil,
Thanks for your thoughts on this. As I mentioned in my post, I don't repair my own car, except for tiny things. I agree that learning to do more maintenance on my car would be a good thing; unfortunately time does not permit that right now. I agree this website is a great resource, which I will turn to if I do learn to do more car maintenance and repair.
I do have my car repaired, but due to financial reasons, have practiced a kind of triage on the car's problems, with the goal of simply keeping the car moving. I realize that untreated small problems can lead to large problems, but there's a limit to how much I can have fixed at each time. Sounds like it's time to deal with the slow starts -- I fear I was thinking of them more as an annoyance than as a symptom. I'm still most concerned about the foggy morning no-start, but maybe the two problems are related.
At the least, I want to be an informed consumer of repair, so I appreciate your thoughts on possible causes of the slow starts and the effects they might have on the starter itself.
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I see that you are getting some good information from other posters.
I will give you some insight or background on what is happening when you turn the key and decide on what your first cheap step to remove a possible hindrance to a fast kick off.
First it takes a lot of energy to turn that mass of iron over and compress the air in the cylinders.
The starter motor sucks all it needs because it has the biggest and shortest wire to the battery.
If the battery cannot supply more than the starter needs the ignition and fuel pumps loose out first.
Without those two items working as well as they can they are not going to work as well as needed under a worse condition like the low battery or cooler/foggy atmosphere of night or daytime.
I know, you know, that corrosion is something to look out for! The battery is the first place to look and it is the easiest.
I will suggest that you need to look into other little tiny hiding places.
For instance, the fuse panel and its terminals.
Another is under the distributor cap as it is subjected to same atmosphere but has a more critical job to do. The four terminals of the cap get green and the rotor button gets zapped four times every turn.
It is an easy thing to clean. You open up the cap by undoing the spring clips on each side with a small screwdriver and look under there at the goodies. I would take a gander at the terminals and the dome. Look for moisture and scrape or chip the green away with a sharp scraper point or your wife's finger nail sanding board. Just buff them up a little. Blow or wipe it all clean under there.
Anything helps if these items are rather old.
The cap goes right back on the way it came off and there is a little notch block in the cap that fits a notch cutout so it fits down in the right place. The clips only go back on easily if its all the way down and does not rotate.
Wires do not degrade much but if the engine has a misfire, moisture of fog will reroute the spark when they are! You can check that when the car is running with a spray bottle and mist the wires with water AT NIGHT and look for a light show.
After you square this item away and its hard to start it kicking over you might need to pull the plugs to see if its flooding or dry. If you have to go that far you can lay the plugs up on the engine and see how they spark when cranking.
Oh, back to cranking, you may want to have or use a battery charger to raise up the chances of the current being plentiful. Short drives or a lot of cranking will not maintain a battery at its full capacity!
If the plugs stay dry and you do not see a hint off gas the we will have to discuss fuel pressure issues. As I believe this is a K-Jet system and they have to have about thirty pounds or more pressure just to open the injectors of which is just the beginning of the fun of diagnosing.
Voltmeters are a wonderful, first good tool, to purchase anytime! I highly recommend the four dollar ones (or less) from Harbor Freight for new users. As for sure until you learn the do's and don'ts you cannot go wrong if you smoke it.
You can use it around the house to check lots of things too! Keeps you from throwing away good flashlight batteries when only one cell dies in front of the other good ones!
Time to get down in there and a little dirty but it's better than scuffing your shoes along side a road somewhere. (:-)
Phil
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Phil, thanks for the helpful explanations and suggestions, Phil! Your reply is a compendium of useful information -- even if I don't use all the info now, I will file it away for later. A voltmeter or multimeter sounds like a good thing to have and know how to use.
Due to the pressures of time, I may start by having the local Autozone or the Auto Club test the battery, and then go on from there. Not sure whether I'd check the rotator cap myself this time, but it's useful to know how to do it. I'm not a guy, I'm a woman, so I could use my own emery board to buff away corrosion. ;-)
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Yes a voltmeter is handy.
The throwing away batteries just happen to my sister-in-law. Her indoor/ outdoor thermometer quit working and it was not that long ago I replaced the batteries for her.
She thought it was that again and got to swapping them out herself and could not get it to work again!
She saved it again for me and I found out that all the batteries were dead even though she said she changed them. I personally think it was way too early for the batteries to go bad. Last time there was a button cell that she did not see under a separate little cover?
I think she got the AA's mixed up with some others or something in her battery box. I show her to always take some Scotch tape and put it over one end to mark it dead, after using a meter! The recycle people like that done to them too!
She now wants to learn how to use a voltmeter because she has tackled a light switch and a wall receptacle with sparks! I joked with her to the fact that is the other way to turn off a circuit breaker or find it in the panel so you can work on them, OFF!
Thanks for the compliment. I looked that word up. I had a good idea what it meant, it is just so rare, I think, to see it used in my world anymore!
My sister-in-law says I explain things to her well, that is, until her eyes start to glaze over! She is still getting those small inoculations to enter the mechanical world, since her husband died.
I could not tell it you were a man or a woman and do not think about that happening much.
I was concerned about the dangers of not doing maintenance.
As far as learning and doing, its all is an equal opportunity thing for both sexes and so will those break down experiences be included!
Phil
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Is the cranking always slow? If so, try jumping it to a know good battery. Very cold weather will reduce battery power. If little change, Remove and clean both ends of the battery cables, both the positive and ground cables. Check if the small strands of wire in the cable are broken near ends. Clean all terminals both on the cable and the battery and starter. Use a small wire brush.
If the cranking is ok, the cold start valve, vacuum leaks, and week spark may cause hard starting. Damp weather usually affects older spark plug cables and their connections. Moisture can also condense on the inside of the distributor cap.
If the engines runs well when warm then it's most likely something simple. Shop manuals are available free here:
http://www.k-jet.org/
http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/
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Thanks for the suggestions. Though I don't have much to compare it with, the cranking is *not* always slow. Even on that damp morning, it started out cranking at what for my car is a normal speed and then...got...very...slow...and...stopped. Just to clarify, the morning was damp and a mite cool, but not actually cold -- I live in Southern California.
It would be great if the no-start problem could be solved with a little maintenance of the battery cables and terminals. As I noted, the terminals didn't look so bad except that the incoming and outgoing wires are exposed for ~1/4 inch.
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If you have a voltmeter, watch the battery voltage while the starter is cranking. Sounds like you may have a dying/weak battery.
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Thanks, mtd240! I don't have a voltmeter, but will look into this. If the "doesn't start at all on a damp day" problem is just the battery, rather than being something more expensive and hard to diagnose, that would be a relief.
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