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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

Having researched posts and posted on this previously the consensus was there was a vacuum leak allowing unmetered air into the combustion cycle.

Here is a recap of tests, results and questions. I am thinking that I must be checking something the wrong way since with the list I have available I think I have checked everything.

1) Throttle knob 'O' ring is intact. It is tight enough to require some force to pull out of the Idle Control Knob socket.

2) I did an all around block of air hoses test on the IAC (IN and OUTlets), the Oil Vapor trap (PCV) at the accordion pipe, and the large hose to the EVAP at the Throttle body, the small EVAP tube holds pressure. I removed air blocks one at a time to see which caused the engine to stall for lack of air. Only the air block to the IAC stalls the engine.

3) The Throttle plate was visibly inspected to make sure it was closed.

4) Brake Booster: The line passed the break pedal test ... is there more to this line holding vacuum?

5) Climate control ... when I disconnect the vacuum tube and blow back into the vacuum tank I do not get a build up of pressure. When running a warm engine and disconnect the climate control vacuum tube the RPM climb by maybe 6-800. When the inlet to the intake manifold is blocked the RPM return to normal. ... Is there another test?

6) Cruise control ... (does not exist on my car)

7) Ignition advance ... ? ... My '88 has no vacuum line to the distributor for ignition advance. I thought this was managed by the Fuel ECU. ... Is there something else?

8) FPR is new and the new vacuum hose is clean an holds pressure.

9) Injector seals,
1. I checked with a hose (stethoscope) and hear nothing other than engine noise.
2. I blew propane over each injector and there was not change in RPM.

10) Cracked and/or brittle manifold gasket.
1. I checked with a hose (stethoscope) and hear nothing other than engine noise.
2. I blew propane over each cylinder port and there was not change in RPM.

11) Ignition ECU ... the tube pressurizes when I blow to the ECU.

I have been tracking MPG and oddly it has gone up from a normal 20+ to 21+ to 23+ to 20+ to 22+ to 19+ to 23+. I never have noticed such fluctuations in MPG and recently have used the car for much less varied purposes and think the MPG would be more consistent.

Insights appreciated.
Thank you
--
1988 244 DL; B230F; LH-2.2; Manual 5-speed (M47)








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

follow up on climate control line ...

- I pulled the inside panel under passenger side of dash to check the oppostie end of climate control vacuum line.
-- Found fists full of dried leaves. No indication of a rodent. I assume outside air inlet brings in leaves.
-- Disconnected climate control vacuum line at check valve ... this time I can hear the air equalize from the vacuum in the vacuum tank. I checked pressure in line by blowing through from engine compartment. This time I kept applying pressure and after three breaths the line pressurized.
--- I had someone else blow through the line while I laid with my ear down near the vacuuum tank. I could hear them applying pressure and the increased difficulty with the last breathes. No sound of pressure lost.
--- I turned on the engine and laid with my ear down near the vacuuum tank. I operated the push button controls and could hear the different doors open and shut and sounds of air movement. I could hear no hiss while the engine is running that would indicate an air leak.
- I do not believe there is a fault in the climate control line.
--
1988 244 DL; B230F; LH-2.2; Manual 5-speed (M47)








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

Boy, I am surely sorry that you are having such a terrible time trying to choke the life out of your engine! (:-)

I have used those hose stethoscopes but mostly for metalic sounds and pressure leaks.
I likes, being blown in my ear, as it tickles more(:-)).

In reading you explanation of ruling out the cabin climate control vacuum bottle, I almost got confused myself of which way you "mouthed off" opon that "little" hose.
I believe you sorted it out and you do not have a problem there. Besides you blocked all of it off earlier.

The check valve will have the white side (the vacuum bottles color) sticking away from engine. This way it allows air out of the bottle and you should only check those things with a vacuum because the seals in the control box and bellows are made to hold vacuum.
With pressure the bellows might rupture.
The Seals themselves need to slip and slide on surfaces. These seals allow air into enter the bellows of those and vacuum motors to equalize. The status of usage could be used on one or the other side for vacuum but at different times at atmospheric pressure. No PSI's were designed in.

I prefer to watch a hand held vacuum pump with a gauge.
If you had a very small leak, you could be hanging over the fender for sometime waiting for it, wet tongue and all.
There you are with a tongue stuck tasting some stale rubber or the other persons beer as pressure puts things in stuff!
Guess there are those brave, he-men types, everywhere!
There is some internet verbage out there about why men don't live so long, that is quite funny, to me!
Yours, goes back to us all being boys I'd say! (:-)

I am not familiar with an 88 but on my 86, you might have the ICU on the washer bottle fender. It was mentioned by another poster but stated the distributor. That is not the right place.
There should be a white nylon line connected to diaphragm that runs under the engine to the ICU and BACK to a port on the intake manifold that hooks to a fitting under that familiar (:-) climate control vacuum line.
Some people do away with that line thinking it helps with emissions. I cannot support that idea as I have no idea but figure some smarter than me put it there.

Is that fitting plugged or a solid connection without leakage of the diaphragm? It controls timing, under load, I believe?

You should only a hold a vacuum on the Fuel Pressure Regulator intake manifold connection onthe housing and definitely no gas from it either!
With evaporative canister and flame trap lines plugged off that leaves air only through the throttle plate, the mixture screw that is worthless on the LH and that electronic controlled IAC valve.

Considering that you have the throttle plate centered in the bore and resting only in the bores center circumference without the outer shafts lever, sitting on the stop screw holding the throttle shaft and to make all the air where it can only go through the IAC! This we want!

There can still be a minuscule amount of air sneaking around the throttle plate because, after all, its only a squared edged metallic plate is doing the sealing. Air is darn thin too!

It is not enough air to run the engine and this is good. We want that amount of air to be below or at the most closed range position of the IAC. The IAC will then have to open slightly to get the engine into a smoother idle and then move it on up to a specification set by the ECU's fuel management program.
You should never hear a stumbling or racing engine when its dialed in with the other components. It should rev up to start and idle right back to specs. If it does not, suspect the IAC!

The IAC must be set to have enough RANGE to thin and enrichen air flow under all conditions.
The IAC SYSTEM must deliver this to work on a mass produced engine, run with consistent reliability of performance, within a framework comprised of a less knowledgeable public arena of owners and of course, still studying (on your hourly dollar) mechanics!

Fuel mileage is affected more by bad ignition maintenance, a bad fuel pressure regulator or the O2 sensor. Other things are short trips, road conditions or even more likely a lead foot on the pedal and I should have left sooner!

In the book they want you to believe that you have to set the stop screw open a certain turn amount and the engine run at certain RPM. This is not so as smooth is option or actually not required!

You want it to barely rock the plate open or as I do it, I feel it touch the lever and give it one- sixteenth to almost one-eight turn and lock the screw down. Do not look for or expect space around the plate as you are not suppose to see any!
Seeing any is too much, unless you have a light behind it and left it on inside the engine!
Do not expect expect really smooth because the IAC valve will do that when you unleash it by removing the ground.

The stop screw safe guards against jamming the plate in the bore from the return spring pressure and a quick or hard release from wide open throttle position.

This leaves only the IAC to let the engine breathe and maybe that Mickey Mouse plastic air screw but do not count on it on LH systems. Those are left over K-jet parts. Its Like, the saying, its cheaper to keep her, I mean, IT, as mid-production changes, are like change orders, when building a house!

If you cannot get it to idle after that then there is something wrong with the IAC or the IAC is being told to do more RPM by the ECU.
Just like recently on ENGINE 41's car it turned out to be the a/c thermostat switch in the dash, was accidently turn on since one of the Bushes administrations.
The micro-switch attached, which was an auxiliary device to tell the ECU to hold the idle higher for the additional load.

On the 91 models all of that stuff has been removed and done closely in conjunction with the ECU/IAC the same way.

If you got that puppy choked out, it has be the IAC or a very well controlled intake manifold leak, IMHO.
Phil









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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

"7) Ignition advance ... ? ... My '88 has no vacuum line to the distributor for ignition advance. I thought this was managed by the Fuel ECU. ... Is there something else?"

There should be a vacuum line between the distributor and the ICU mounted on the WW fluid tank.

But I agree 760 rpm is what you should see, who knows how accurate a 25 year old tack is.


Dan








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

I tried to fix a similar problem on my friend's 88 to no avail. We took it to the best shop in town and they told us they would no longer work on pre 1990 Volvo cars because of problems with the wiring harnesses. They said that they would fix one thing and in the process would mess up something else.

I believe he plans to sell the car. Not only could the idle problem not be resolved we discovered the heater core had been bypassed.

I wonder if your problem is related to the harness. Is it possible that the signal from the AMM is not making it to the ECU?

Hawk








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

I've read that Volvo corrected the wiring harness in the '88 model.
It not I suspect i would have more going wrong than trying to get the idle lower.
--
1988 244 DL; B230F; LH-2.2; Manual 5-speed (M47)








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

you mentioned everything that plugs into the accordian hose (Intake Bellows) but did you take off and check that Bellows? They split or wear on the Inner fender well.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

Done. Removed and water flooded to confirm I was not seeing a small hole.
--
1988 244 DL; B230F; LH-2.2; Manual 5-speed (M47)








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

I must be missing something here but is it not the idle specification for the engine to idle at 750 RPM normally? That should be listed in the decal on the shock tower for timing and such.

That's what all my LH cars do? The ECU controls it through the Idle Air Control Valve. If the A/C is on it might get bumped a wee bit by the IACV.

If you ground the wire (blue wire not the pink on the fender. I think you should check your manual on that) to the IACV. It should then drop idle underneath its control value and idle strictly on the air passing through the throttle plate only. 500 to 600 rpm.
That is unless you have a black knob on the throttle body which is technically obsolete starting in about 1985.
That can be totally shut down, if the stop screw for the throttle plate is set to just stop the throttle plate from jamming in the bore and not holding the plate open for extra air, which by the way, thats when it is, maladjusted!

Take a step back, turn around twice and go through it again. You might be good already!

Phil








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

Phil,

The Green Volvo Books say 700 RPM with IAC disabled, 750 RPM with IAC enabled.

I'm trying to track this down because the Black Knob on the Throttle Body is completely closed and I cannot reduce the idle further. That is very different from before I started having running problems, which with an AMM and Throttle Body and TPS replacement left me with an idle that cannot be turned down to or below spec.

Given the horrible time I had with the running problem I want to be proactive. The idle adjustment is not correct and I'm sure something is not right, especially with the erratic mpg I have been getting.

--
1988 244 DL; B230F; LH-2.2; Manual 5-speed (M47)








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

You wrote, "Only the air block to the IAC stalls the engine."

So it is the IAC that is providing the air.

"The Green Volvo Books say 700 RPM with IAC disabled, 750 RPM with IAC enabled."

If the idle is at 760 with the IAC disabled, though it is supposed to be with the IAC enabled, maybe the IAC is stuck open even when it is disabled.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.








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I agree. 760 RPM seems right. 200 1988

"Only the air block to the IAC stalls the engine.
3) The Throttle plate was visibly inspected to make sure it was closed."

This shows that there is no vacuum leak. Ie. with the air from the IAC shut off and the throttle plate closed, there is no air coming in and the engine suffocates.

760 rpms at idle seems correct.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

Check and confirm the Bosch connector for the temperature sensor is locked in place and making a good connection. I know from recent experience a loose connector will cause a high idle which simulates a stuck IAC valve.








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

Salt N Pepper

I finally got under the hood to check the temperature sensor connecter.

The sensor is 2 1/2 years old and there is no indication the connection is loose.
The lock wire is up and slides down into the release position.
Given the location I did not pull it off.
--
1988 244 DL; B230F; LH-2.2; Manual 5-speed (M47)








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

Have you set the base idle yet? See the FAQ's for directions.

http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineFuelinjection.htm#SettingBaseIdle

Dan








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Continuing Idle Issue ... can not get down past 760 RPM w/ IAC disabled 200 1988

Dan,

The idle has been set EXCEPT for the CO2 test and I do not have that test sensor.

If the problem is in the CO2 set screw then wouldn't I be able to adjust the screw and see a change in the idle to confirm a problem?

Or would that change the idle regardless and also change the CO2 mix?
--
1988 244 DL; B230F; LH-2.2; Manual 5-speed (M47)







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