posted by
someone claiming to be steve long island
on
Wed Mar 13 19:02 CST 2013 [ RELATED]
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after replacing alternator, have had an intermittent starting problem. New battery, new plugs, wires, rotor, cap, air filter, and yesterday replaced starter. Seems to be getting fuel and elec cause I have all the dash lights when I turn the key....it sort of half cranks, then might start weakly....other times, cranks perfectly normal. No pattern of hot/cold, etc. just when it feels like it. Once running, idles and runs normal...and very well... ??? have had her 22 years and have done all her work...a little heartsick...any help would be good Karma...thanks
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Dear steve long island,
Hope you're well. Failure points: (a) ignition power stage; (b) fuel pump relay; (c) fuel injection relay; (d) crank (RPM) sensor; (e) grounds; (f) battery cables (corrosion inside the insulation sheath); (g) fuel pump(s).
If any of these is a factory-original item, it doesn't owe you a penny.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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CPS !! Thanks Spook....
Once I read all your advice, I ordered one as well as a fuel pump relay...those seemed to be 1 and 2 on the hit parade of causes of my problem.
After I located the CPS (which is a 2'long wire with a female end, and a male insert on the other end that bolts into a hole the top of the tranny bell housing), running along the firewall down to the tranny, I realized that was my problem.
Both ends were frayed, the end that bolts to the tranny was cracked near the plug, and as an added bonus, the bolt (10mm) that was holding it in the hole, was barely hand tight....plus it had a yellow stripe on it, which I guess isn't good? It's OEM and I'm the orig owner....but the thing was shot no matter.
So I swapped it out, and after a dozen starts so far, all systems go...I'm hoping that was the problem.
Since I had the fuel pump relay in hand anyhow, I popped it in as well, since I'm sure the condition of the CPS had to be the cause. If it wasn't so apparent, I would have done one part at a time....but....this thing was SHOT. I also double checked my battery connections which were tight, and looked for any lose grounds....
so, thank you all, esp Spook for your triage list of possible causes....
I think I'm gonna tackle another water pump/timing belt soon since I'm on a roll. It's a red block, and I did change the tb once already hoping if I botched it, I wouldn't bend the valves....and that was 95k mi ago, so I'll see if my luck holds out for another go around....
For anyone changing this CPS, it's a 10mm bolting it to the trans, although mine was loose, be sure you DO NOT forcefully yank it and crack the end that sits in the trans. I shot a little wd-40 on the bolt to clean it (not knowing it was so loose), but it probably helped loosen it from it's seating, which helped it lift right out without a fight.
a socket, an extension, and the wrench made easy work of it. Just carefully slide your hand b/w the firewall and the plumbing, and you'll have enough room to turn a ratchet. I was able to reach down no problem and hand start the bolt.
The top end, is a female plug that is keyed, and connects to a plug with a release. Not much else to it.
Thanks...wish I could offer more. I'd be happy to share anything I've learned. She's asked very little over the years, but I've attempted about everything needed, and she's still on the road.
Thanks Spook.
Steve Long Island
92 940 T 244k
red/red block/red brick
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Dear Steve Long Island,
Hope you're well. You're welcome!! Timing belts for the B230 engines have a working life of 50K miles (said to be 100K for the '95 model year, but with no obvious reason - the belts are the same for '93-'95 models - I stick to the 50K change interval) or 10 years, whichever comes first.
If your timing belt has gone 95K miles, it is on borrowed time. See the FAQs for the proper procedure. If you're careful not to allow movement in the cam pulley or the crank pulley, the belt change is simple.
Change the timing belt tensioner if it is the factory-original item. Tensioners should be changed every 100K miles. Even if you changed the tensioner, when you last changed the timing belt (95K miles ago), the tensioner is within 5K miles of the end of its service life. It could last longer. However, you'll change it at a time/place of your choosing, or your'll change it at a time/place not of your choosing.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Spook, Matt:
as I mentioned, I've done a tb change once before, and I've been reading now to refresh/prepare.
Of course, I must have removed the crank pulley if I got it done (and I do remember wedging my breaker bar against the bulkhead and cranking quick, which I WILL NOT do again, guess I'm buying #5284 ), but forgive my stupidity here....how come pushing back the tensioner and holding it with a little nail which I recall, doesn't allow enough slack to slip the belt off both pulleys, replace, release the tension, and done.
I'm trying to remember why the pulley needs to be removed.....
forgive my stupidity....not asking you to re-engineer the car, but trying to visualize the process in my head before I get going.
thanks fellas, sorry to be a pest.
steve LI
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Dear steve long island,
Hope you're well. If the heater hoses are factory-original, change them at once!! They don't owe you a penny.
Heater hoses have a working life of about 15 years (in a climate with low average ambient temperatures). A burst heater hose = rapid coolant loss = overheating = head job. Also replace the heater control valve.
Because heater hoses are hard to access/inspect, use Volvo brand heater hoses. They last for about 15 years.
If you'd not otherwise do so, change the radiator hoses, when you replace the water pump. Those hoses, too, are best replaced with Volvo brand hoses.
Rubber items' durability cannot be assessed by inspection, which does not reveal how the rubber was compounded and processed.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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changed heater hoses last year, as well as the heater control valve....and yes, they are a pain to reach. If anyone is doing this, assemble the connections to the heater control assembly first, and then make your connections at the firewall (e-z) and the block (a little tough). It's a tight spot.
Yep, Volvo hoses do last almost forever....good tip.
Also, if anyone is changing hoses, there's one real shorty that does a 180 basically, that connects down by the oil filter sleeve....I guess it cools the oil? I was able to get to that one just by jacking up and sitting her on stands....it definitely carries coolant, since it gave me advanced notice with a little green drip...real short hose shaped like a C
did radiator hoses last year, Spook, when I replaced the radiator....thanks for the heads up.....hoses go without notice, cause they degrade internally first. Yep. Good Call.
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
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...hope you're well too Spook...
Yep, I know I'm overdue on the TB, and the water pump is getting nosy too....I'll hope to get in there this weekend.
I've done the tb once, and remember it wasn't bad.....it was pre-internet and I used the chilton's for instructions. I seem to remember putting a breaker bar on the bolt holding the crank shaft, and giving the ignition key a quick turn to break it loose....
but now, that sounds kinda dangerous and stupid.
I'll read faq....I should be ok....thanks. I also remember marking gear position with white out....gonna have to do my homework....
thanks again, man!
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"and I did change the tb once already hoping if I botched it, I wouldn't bend the valves"
No chance of that on a US market, unmodified B230FT. It is a non-interference motor.
If the belt breaks the engine stops and you have to replace the belt. Heck, with the cam mounted distributor, you only have to line up two timing marks to do it because the intermediate shaft just drives the oil pump so no alignment needed.
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thanks....
I attempted it cause it was a red block....I was a little shaky nonetheless. At that point, she was still almost brand new: 142K
Thanks for the encouragement and reinforcement. Was dumb luck I guess buying the 940 instead of the more "luxurious" 960 which I think has an interference motor.
: )
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thank you...gonna try the cps first. She doesn't owe me a penny is right....I think this car has a soul actually. Even on the occasion break down over the years, she still manages to limp home....Only car I've ever owned. Don't know how I'd part with her.....and she's taught me how to work on cars. Started knowing zero, and have done everything needed myself (except the starter this week....couldn't reach it).
sounds silly to anyone but a Volvo owner....I know.... : D
thanks for your help....new to this site..how do I pay it forward? Happy to share what I've learned over the years. 92, 940T with the 2.3, red block.
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pay it forward by posting back with the resolution to your problem.
my order of operations would be:
1. Fuel System Relay - you can remove and re-flow the cracked solder joint and/or buy a spare -- check the FAQ
2. Crank position sensor - as spook said, if you have never changed it, it is time now. Inspect it for fraying insulation and shorts - I think there are some pics in the FAQ of the failure mode
3. Power Stage - mounted to the front drivers fender. These can and have failed for me and causes on / off no-start
4. Fuel Pump - mine failed at about 200,000 miles, its an involved job and this is one repair I trusted to a reputable independant Volvo mechanic
If the car is in good shape and has been well cared for don't be afraid to put some money into it.
You can do items 1,2 and 3 for less than $150. I'm not advocating throwing parts at it, but these are known failure items that again don't owe you a dime and will help to clarify your further troubleshooting.
Replace them one at a time so you know what the problem was.
Matt
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'90 245 285k, '93 945 296k
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thank you Matt, for the help....I just posted my results. You fellas were right on. CPS, as you and Spook diagnosed.
Glad to be back on the road. (plugged in a new fuel pump relay as well since it's a single philips screw to get to it..guess, I was on borrowed time with it too...)
If there's anything I can share about my car, I'd be happy to...
Steve Long Island
92 940t
244k
all red
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disassemble and re-solder the fuel system relay, test it in the car and then keep it in the glove box for a spare. see instructions in FAQ
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'90 245 285k, '93 945 296k
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My vote is battery cables.
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Post Back. That's whats makes this forum work.
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seems to be getting a lot of juice though....acc all working, lights, horn, etc, all very strong. Even the failed crank sounds strong....
Hate elec problems....frustrating....thanks...
If I solve this, I'll post.
Thanks again.
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