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Hello All,
So my 120 isn't unlike many we've seen. It was a daily driver with faded paint, a little bondo on the rear wheel arches, a crack in one fender. All in all not too bad. I'd say the worst of it is the taillight arches if that's the right term are a bit knurled from PO using the wrong screws to fasten lights and so the bulb housing isn't as straight, and flush as I've seen on other 120's.
The trunk handle is also pushed in a tad. I'm not shooting for concourse here, just clean lines and paint. I've already committed $2,000 and the old man is taking his sweet time, and is asking if I can source trunk lid as apposed to him fixing the dent Behind the handle.
My feeling is it's taken 7 months, he's already been paid, I don't think it's being too firm to ask him to just pull the dents, prime and spray the car (outside only), the same shade of green. My new date for pick up is sometime in January, prior date was June.
thanks in advance for your opinions and thoughts.
greendread
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You should never pay upfront for such type of work!
Since you already did, I'd take the car out of there and sue this guy in Small Claims Court. You'd likely win...
This guy is obviously taking advantage of you. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but the time it has taken, and the present condition of the car in the pictures do not indicate that he is dealing in good faith. $2,000 should be plenty for the job you expected.
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Hello All,
So I went to the shop to get things moving along.... Found the car out in the lot in the rain, at least it's getting worked on. But it's not looking good. Waited for a while and when no one showed up after opening time I left. But I got some shots on my mobile. It was tucked in against a half rotted out Le mans, so they're not the best shots; but you get the picture.
https://plus.google.com/photos/108465411839042148924/albums/5833396559152918353?authkey=CJzM8Lj8gceftwE
Cheers,
greendread
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I think you are kind of screwed since you paid upfront. Having said that it doesn't seem like you paid very much. I had a shop, that has done decent work for me in the past, quote $1000-$1200 to fibreglass and paint the rear wheel arches on my '96 Civic, and the arches still look okay.
What to do ? Go talk to them. The suface rust isn't a big problem, so don't go in with your hair on fire. But do talk to them about what you were expecting and find out what they were planning to do for the $2k you already gave them ( you have a receipt, right ?). And then find out what it will take to get a decent paint job in the next few weeks. At that point you can decide what to do.
All advice is worth the price charged...
Greg
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Hello All,
Yes, $2,000 isn't a whole lot of money... but that said, l never had to spend real money to have this car running and humming along for years. I spent the money because the car deserves it. Before it got to the shop it had faded paint and a dent at the trunk lid and beautiful new front floors. The floors are rusted, and the body is worse off. But its repairable. I almost feel like I sent my child to a horror movie summer camp.
With the way the can primer is sprayed on there I don't even know how well the paint will stick. I'm thinking of getting a Por 15 kit and having the floors sprayed at this point. I've not talked to the owner in a while but he says his "wet look" paint treatment will go on smooth and hide imperfections ans last years on the street. I googled wet look and came across posts mentioning epoxy or tractor paint. I don't know. I saw an mg, f100 he gave the same treatment to and it looked pretty good up close.
It wasn't easy to let go of the money but I felt like I was doing the right thing. I've kept receipts so I'll have a chat and see where it leads me. I'm optimistic.
Thanks
greendread
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You have my sympathy. Having both your car and the money means rock and a hard place. Is there such a thing as a trades standards office there? Anyone who can lean on him to at least keep your car protected whilst it's "in his care"?I'd say he was liable under common law to do that. Putting it outside to rust is wanton damage IMO.
Note: I'm not familiar with American law.
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Three words - Better Business Bureau.
Threaten to file a complaint. Post those photos along with the shop's name and start sharing. Sign up on Angie's list and report it. If you've got a title and receipt for services call the cops if he won't release the car back to you.
Looks like it was sanded to expose the steel and then left to rust. This pictures suggest intentional vandalism (in my opinion). That shop looks more like a junkyard to me.
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A couple thoughts/suggestions on this dilema. If you are able/willing to do body work, do all the prep and repairs yourself to the point that you are happy with it then use Maaco or someone similar to do the actual paint. These guys can do reasonalbly decent paint work. Another possibility is a local voc-tech school with an auto body program. Some of these have after hours adult programs which you can attend to learn the process and sometimes use their facilty to do your own work.I have done this on several of my past projects at our local school. Or, you may be able to get them to do your work for the price of materials.
This may be too little too late in that you are into this guy for quite a bit of cash but at least it is information for possible future projects.
Good luck and a Merry Christmas.
Deloc
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Did you ask for references?
We all should get the names of, and talk to customers that have had similar work done - under the same conditions.
Perhaps this body man has never done a job like this and bit off more than he can chew.
Have you looked at the work that he is doing on accident repair? Does he repair or replace parts?
Can he repair the trunk if you remove the handle AND cut out any braces that are in the way?
I hired a neighbor's church friend to apply some sheetrock on the ceiling of a bedroom of our cape house,
The ceiling was 3-1/2 feet by 11 feet. I was on a ski trip when he did the work. I was dismayed that he put the sheetriock up, put mud on the screws and seams (no tape!) and then sanded ALL the mud off leaving a tiny bit in the cracks,
I told him that the work was unacceptable because I didn't think that he had ever done that type of work before and I did not expect my house to be his school.
I offered to pay for the materials, and after I got the job done right, I would pay him anything that was left over. I never heard from him again.
Good luck.
--
'96 855R,'64 PV544 driver, '67 P1800 basket case, '72 Yamaha Rd400, '68 Honda 350-4, '12 XC70, the first 5 are mine, heh, heh, 525,000 miles put on 10 bricks James A Sousa
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posted by
someone claiming to be amazon63
on
Thu Dec 13 03:39 CST 2012 [ RELATED]
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$2000 isn't very much for body prep, and paintwork. So you will get what you pay for.
As far as the dents go I'd say how many dents are we talking about and how bad? What does "a tad" mean to you? Words have slightly different meanings to different people.
10 years ago I paid ca. $800 for straightening a fender that had gotten bent, bodywork, and painting it to match the rest of the car (that escaped the soft collision with a light pole)
I thought I got out pretty easy from that one.
I think you are being unreasonable on the time as well. Create a triangle, and put the words Inexpensive, Fast, Quality, one in each corner. You can now choose two of those, any two, and you will sacrifice the third. General rule of projects, you can never get all three at the same time. Doesn't happen.
If you don't want to pay him, and you want it done semi-well, you can expect it to go slow. If you want it done semi-well (or better) and fast, you'll have to pay up (either with him or someone else). If you want to pay a low price, and get it fast, one will simply spray over dirt and whatever else there is on the body.
Pick your poison.
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Interesting....
So the only real dent is the trunk... after some thought, I figured the metal has stretched, he would have to do a good bit of work to smooth out and match the curve where the handle attaches to the body. So I'll get another trunk lid. It'll save time and allow more attention to prepping the body. I'm pulling the glass and God willing putting it all back in patiently.
I can also say the seven month delay has been due to the fact that the guy gets a ton of insurance work that makes him big money on short work. I just don't want my car to rot while it waits. I'm honestly willing to keep the car in primer and wait for round two, but the car isn't there yet.
Thanks for the good input,
greendread
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For your trunk lid maybe try here. A good source for parts I believe and probably advice too.
Susquehanna Spares, 3725 Elder Rd, Harrisburg, PA 17111 (717) 921-2644 ; 122/1800 parts, Joe Lazenby owner
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I see two basic problems here. The first one is that you paid it ALL up front.
That means he has no economic incentive to do it quickly; in fact if he can get by doing nothing more he is way ahead. This should be a lesson for all of us - pay enough up front so that it does not work a hardship on the guy/shop, but owe him enough that he will eagerly desire to finish up and get the rest of his money.
The second part is the thing that makes car restoration less than economically viable: The insurance companies have deep pockets and strong desires for good and especially FAST work. You can't compete with them unless you buy your own body man. I had a shop that I thought would do some body work on my 69 164 including replacing the rear metal from the back door back and from the chrome trim down. In fact I have the replacement metal shipped to me by P.E. Dillon in Tucson. Discussions with the shop guy seemed to indicate that I might get this done along with replacing front and rear glass for somewhere between 1500 and 2500. He was going to call me when things slowed down a bit so he could spare the shop space to work on it. After about a year I went over to see him and he hemmed and hawed and finally said that one of his men could do it for me at his own place and I could negotiate with him. The guy swaggered out and felt every surface on the car, running his hands over the finish and finally said that he would do the job for $10,000. As soon as I was able to speak again I said "I can't see this car being worth much more than $3,000 no matter how good a job you do on it. Is there a way that I could do part of the work, like sanding, etc, to reduce the cost?" and he allowed that his reputation was at stake, so he didn't want to do that but that he would do it for $50/hour, but anticipated that it would cost MORE than $10,000 that way. So the poor old thing is still sitting in my driveway while I try to decide what to do. I think there are a couple retired body guys around who might take the job "for kicks". I've owned this car since 1971 and have put 250,000 of its 290K miles on it. Meanwhile I've started on the engine so I will finish that before I get back into the body work.
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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As said, define "tad". With the bootlight removed, a decent body man should be able to pull out or hammer/mallet/dolly it back out to shape unless there any kinks there. Easy to get at and should need only a skim of filler. The tail light corners might also have been distorted in the same bump. They don't fit with absolute precision and rely a bit on the seal but the opening should match up nicely with the reflectors. As it's being painted a bit of picking hammer work might help. Make sure the screw tabs line up properly and get the proper screws. VP do them as a set.
Any pictures?
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Not 100% sure what your question is but, no it is not too much to ask. Maybe next time don't pay up front though.
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They’re right; quality paint jobs don’t come speedy or cheap. Paint can make or break a decent vintage car restoration. A bargain paint job usually isn't such a bargain in 4-6 years, especially if you park it outside.
Prod him if possible… but thing Spring!
I have a good 122 deck lid I'll give you one if you pick it up in Northern California (I-80: Sacramento to Reno), can’t ship.
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posted by
someone claiming to be greendread
on
Sat Dec 15 21:46 CST 2012 [ RELATED]
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Hello,
Cheers to you for the offer; but I'm in Philadelphia.
I stopped into the shop yesterday, and the car is sitting outside where I last saw it over a month ago. The areas that were sanded down to the metal all have surface rust, and the leaking windshield gasket has developed a pool of water on both the driver and passenger side... these were new panels I ordered from iroll motors.
So yeah I'm going to prod him. I'm also going to take the glass out myself so the guy actually puts my car in the shop, and repairs the damage from leaving it out all these months. I hope I can neutralize the rust in the floor panels. All I wanted was a fairly straight body, and primer, now it seems the project is backsliding. I'm going to stay positive an hope for the best.
Cheers,
greendread
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posted by
someone claiming to be amazon63
on
Sun Dec 16 07:52 CST 2012 [ RELATED]
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No. This is no place you want your car to be at.
Anyone who will store a vehicle that's been partially cleaned off paint, and has exposed metal, outside in the rain would not be involved in painting any of my cars. Water can do a lot of damage in a month.
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posted by
someone claiming to be greendread
on
Mon Dec 17 15:22 CST 2012 [ RELATED]
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I hear you,
But I've paid in full. His shop help was an older man in his 70's,who has apparently had a heat attack a few months ago, so now my car is sitting. I was told the car would be ready in January.I saw a good bit of rust on the outside of the car and my new floors are rusty too from a leaking windshield gasket. The thing that burns me is he was aware the car had a leak, and to top it off he put the car back out clear room for new work. I've taken photos, before and ongoing; all I can do is hope. I'm going to spray treat the floors with metal ready and hope the damage is light.
cheers,
greendread
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"he's already been paid," you my friend are pretty much scuppered.
Body work/paint work at the best of times a disappointing process.....A fast turnover shop will do a cheap fast job that looks ok from 10 feet. A quality shop will cost more than the car is worth except for real high end cars. Doing it yourself until it is time to spray might help....
for 2K you can get a car prepped and spayed but it won't be anything more than adequate....
paid 2K for body/paint on my 220, they got the color wrong, they had to re-spray, then they got fish eye...they had to rub down and re-spray, final job was alright but I don't think the primer was done right as the paint will chip off to easily....did not pay a cent til it was all done....If I paid up front, pretty sure the wrong color would have been all I got.
Best bet may be to be there often offering to help move the job along
--
Patrick, '68 220 , '53 GMC 4104, '97 VW Transporter.
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