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Okay, notwithstanding all the praise I've heaped on my 1988 240 DL wagon, the facts are: my job entails lots of driving and talking on the cell phone for business purposes. The inside of my wagon is as loud as a 1970s Ford pickup. Sometimes I have to pull over to the side to get the details.
And then there is the matter of the as yet unsolved door lock problem on the wgon.
What I love about the 240 wagon is it drives and handles like a lighter, sportier car. Very light on its feet.
In a moment of haste I traded a perfectly good 2002 Ford Focus hatch, red in color, for a 1998 Volvo S70 sedan, red in color. The Volvo is a dream in silence, much the way I wish my 240 wagon would be. But the Volvo S70 turbo is front wheel drive and has a heavy feel. Not light on its feet like the Focus was. Well, there are other important tradeoffs too but I'm not going down that trail.
So whenever I see those Volvo XC wagons, from 1998 on, I drool. And I bet they are quiet to drive. But are they heavy on handling, like the S70? Because if so, I would just as soon keep my 88 wagon until I drive the wheels off it.
On the internet I saw this paint that costs about $50 a gallon that is supposed to damp down sound better than that Dynamat that Chip Foos uses on Overhaulin. I thought, next summer or whenever it stops raining, I could tear out the interior of the 88 wagon, paint this stuff on, and call it good. Assuming I'm going to solve the door lock prblem, and I'm confident.
The only way to really solve this question is to drive an XC and judge for myself. But that would entail a whole movie that I don't have time for, and I don't know anyone who owns one.
Any comments? But don't bother dissing the Focus, I've read enough on this board to know the concensus. I mention the Focus merely because I was so surprised when the 240 wagon drove as light as the Focus, the 240 being a heavier car by far. But the S70 teaches me that not all redesigns are an upgrade.
Fire at will. Maybe you can disillusion me about the XC and I can have some other pipe dream this winter. Did I mention it's raining?
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The XC is an all wheel driver, if you don't have a need for AWD don't get it as it is another maintenance item and robs you of BHP and MPG.
The 850's are nice, but getting a little old. The 1999 introduced electronic throttle and that was a bust. 2000 was a decent year? 2001 is the year to avoid. 2002 was marginally better than the the 2001. 2003 introduced Haldex AWD which was a great improvement with the AWD. 2004+ are all good.
As to the steering, the 850's were over compensated in my opinion and much to light. The 1998 was a little harder to turn the wheel but gave me better feel. Remember, the front wheels do all of the work and the motor is on top of them.
I do like the comfort and climate control on these cars - set it and forget it, year round. The cruise control with the P2 cars is better than the 850.
Getting a model with dash phone will require newer cars, so expect to pay for a good system hook up that will use the radio.
Just go to any dealer and take a test drive on Saturday. They won't mind...
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My name is Klaus and I am a V♂lv♂holic
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Thank you, Klaus. This is a good synopss and a sensible approach.
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FWIW -
Before I bought my 850 wagon I test drove either a 99 or 2000 V70XC. The car and the steering both felt heavier than the 850. The XC is substanially heavier than an S70, V70 or 850. IMHO - The 850's steering has better feel and is weighted just right. The 2001+ cars are even heavier and are not sporty compared to the older cars with the exception of the "R" models.
Maybe my 240 was just old, but I simply don't understand why some people say that 240's handle well. Due to their simplicity they do well at communicating what they are doing with the driver, but handle well? Maybe if you spent a lot money upgrading the suspension? Sorry, but I just don't get it...
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95 855 GLT Sportwagon 214k, 90 244 DL 300k
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hey jaywalker, i can't vouch for all the 240s. but i've had mostly 4 bangers that i pushed hard through the coastal mountains of wa and even some rally type driving on logging roads. you know, small truck, small 4wd wagon, and of late the focus i was so fond of. hard into corners, fast down the straight, brake before you get to the turn and punch it. that kind of thing.
when i got this 88 240 wagon i drove it the same, paved road, logging road...enough to test it out. i am simply amazed that this giant car (compared to what i've always driven) can maneuver so well.
okay, it's a little slow, but it's all about timing.
best of all, the good ole boys in their giant trucks don't pull out in front of me anymore.
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A 240 with stock springs, slightly upgraded dampers and good condition bushings is a hoot to drive. Once you place it on a line, it drifts to the limits of its under-steer (much less than the 7/9 series) and just sticks there. Not enough power to brake it loose (unless you have a turbo), transitions from side to side well, etc. It is a lot like a BMW 2002 in that way or the modern Subaru BRZ...you always know what it is doing and it always does things the same way without you having to analyze.
I am sure with upgraded a bunch more stuff you could improve that balance of handling, but out of the box its only problem is LOTS of body roll (no French car lots, but enough to be scary to passengers).
I have ridden in a first gen V70R and I was smitten..until we it a pothole! Then I was mitten again until the next pothole.
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onkel, you speaka my language. i can't put all the lingo to the motions but i do know what you mean. i saw on youtube a video called 240 Swangin or something like that. it is exactly my car (except mine has a flat black hood) drifting around a course and screaming those tires! i expect they've got a little somethin somethin under the hood, and so i say that my allowance is going toward an ipd upgrade on my front end.
call me crazy. i don't care.
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You nailed it. 4 better shocks and new bushings gets expensive and I'm still not convinced that will do the trick. With no IRS and a solid rear axle there are limits to what you can do in the handling department. You'd probably need strut braces and larger sway bars too. Then the ride will be rock hard. I've never driven a 240 that I thought handled well. Predictable with good feel - yes - but sporty - no. Of course, I've never driven one that was close to new. The 7/9 series cars may not have a 240's "feel" but I have driven a couple of 740 and 940 turbos in nice shape that handled pretty well.
BTW - When it comes to handling a 240 ain't no BMW 2002. Not even close. Terrific handling car! I owned a 73 2002 for 5 years and one smallish reason I bought my 244 is because it resembles a large 2002...:) I guess I'm a sap for boxy cars.
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95 855 GLT Sportwagon 214k, ex - 90 244 DL 300k
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Stiffer springs and larger sway bars are really a night-and-day difference to the suspension. Where the 240 suspension shines is its simplicity - it is not the best design for riding-on-rails handling, but it is VERY easily tuned to be what you want it to be. If you have never driven a 240 with brand new bushings and shocks, ipd sways and stiffer springs, then you can't judge the platform's potential. However, as you said, the stock 240 suspension is far from sporty.
Unfortunately, as handling improves in the 240, harshness increases, unlike some new cars I have ridden in which seem to float on a cloud, but still handle well. What the newer, more comfortable suspensions lack (usually) is the feedback - you can feel the road in a 240 as well as if you were walking it barefoot.
That's my take. I like to think of a well-tuned 240 suspension as comparable to a vintage sports car's, but not equivalent to modern designs.
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"4 better shocks and new bushings gets expensive" But we agree they are wear parts, right? The shocks on step up from OEM are about $120 more for all four. With a few exceptions, I would not upgrade bushings, just replace the worn ones with OEM quality rubber.
Outside of a 940 SE with a LOT of work, I have never been in 7-series that is enjoyable in anything but a straight line. You mention turbos...the extra power forgives a lot of sins. Like a Mustang 5.0 verses the smaller nimbler car...like the 2002, BRZ, Datsun 240, etc.
"When it comes to handling a 240 ain't no BMW 2002". Oddly a '73 2002 (base) is what I use as my benchmark and you are right that they are not in the same league. They both punch above their weight with low power, surprisingly nimble handling and impeccable feel (for what they are). I am told the 144 is even more so.
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Yup, I too would be interested in driving a 142 or 144. They look like fun! Most people like Amazon's and P1800's. Definitely an overlooked older Volvo.
The 2002 has much higher limits than a 240. I took corners at speeds in mine that I would not even consider/or achieve in a 240 and my suspension was stock...:)
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95 855 GLT Sportwagon 214k, ex - 90 244 DL 300k
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"I took corners at speeds in mine that I would not even consider/or achieve in a 240"
Again, you might be surprised. Go see a 240 race LeMon's. They out corner most of the E30's and get left for dead on the straights...then reel them back in on the corners. The difference in power-to-weight was staggering but the silly little professor's cars regularly trounce more E30's than any vintage BMW fan (me included) like to admit. A lot of that is the drivers, but some of it is the car.
Cornering a 240 is very disconcerting on stock springs, shocks and sways, but the limits are surprisingly high. You truly feel you will fall out of the seat as the car is listing so far. When they break loose, they do so slowly and recover easily. Given the same tires and factory quality suspension, the 2002 is better but the margin is smaller than you imagine. A 2002 is more fun to drive fast.
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Hi redfoxglove,
FYI. This is based on our AWD forum members.
1998-2000 V70 FWD (but avoid AWD possible)
2004-2007 XC70
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sweet, Baklava
I have read various references to the preferred models. good summary. this goes in the folder
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All of those white block modern Volvo's feel heavy nosed to me compared with the RWD variants. The AWD maybe less so, but still more than the 240. 2001+ models especially. They look sleek from the outside, but feel like whales when driving; they are big cars.
I went the white block route with a 99 V70 for similar reasons; quiet ride with modern refinements. I got burned by a bad exhaust valve at 160K, but was looking to revert to 240's prior to that incident. I missed the balance of RWD on a 240, drivability and visibility are superior, and with some sort of locking rear diff (like a G80), I prefer them in the snow and rain.
To address the quiet ride issue, I stripped the interior and bought a roll of Fat Mat, which can be had for less than half the price of Dynamat. I installed that stuff everywhere, including the doors and rear hat shelf. After that, I stripped some of the foam damping from a 93' 240. In places where that wasn't covering, I used 1/2" carpet foam cut to fit. Then carpet back on top of all that. It was an investment of time and money, but now I dare say the ride is quieter that an S70. I use bluetooth calling without a problem. I believe bringing ride noise in line with a modern Volvo can be done, but you need to be methodical. For me it was worth it after realizing I would much rather maintain a 240 long term than any white block.
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heya 4343
i like these ideas. methodical, i can do. Fat Mat, good tip. that dynamat is spendy but i was considering it. foam from a beater, probably no can do. but could probably cut foam to fit.
one fine day i hope to talk husband into a p-n-p tour of the seattle metro area where i understand there are several that hold beater...er...retired but once loved old volvos...
i'm going to print out these suggestions and put them to my folder for perusal over the long rainy winter
thanks
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Can't help you the XC but...I hear great things about the R package suspension calibration.
On quieting you 240:
Get a hood blanket from a turbo or other.
Make sure all the felt panels under the dash are in place.
Consider dynamat or the generics on the engine side of the firewall (can't remember which ones are rated for the heat and exposure)
Throw a heavy quilt in the cargo area.
Make sure the engine is running perfectly with no exhaust leaks, collapsed accessory bushings, etc.
None of these will make a 240 a quiet as a modern car but the hood blanket in particular helps loads.
If you liked that Focus...go drive the Focus ST. My wife's focus is pretty darned nice and all the magazines say the FWD nature of the ST is all but invisible do to the tuning. Unless you need the in-dash navigation, avoid the MyFord touch.
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a mighty yes to the focus st. i've only seen it in pictures though.
great suggestions on damping down the sound in the 240. maybe a hood blanket from any old car could be spliced to fit. out here where i live there aren't so many volvos in the pnp. the guy who used to have the only volvo shop was a tax protester and quite a number to deal with.
thanks onkel
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