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I'm contemplating purchasing an 1800 soon, but here are a few questions I was wondering about.
Mostly about body work.
I already know what to avoid (rust, high miles, etc), but what does it take to fix the rust?
The areas I'm mostly concerned with are the hood latch area, and the rear panels behind the wheels.
The rust holes behind the wheels are the ones that frighten me the most. Are those panels that if there is a rust hole in them, are open to below? Or is it completely 'sealed' and a hole there would most likely lead to rust in the belly of the car?
If it's open to below (or not structural) I'm not too concerned. But if it is rusty in the frame, I'm not interested in having to re-do a lot of the body.
They aren't huge gaping rust holes, but holes none the less.
I'm not planning on spending lot for this car (800-1200) so I KNOW I'm not going to get a car without issues. I just want to know if my issues are relatively simple, or a huge red flag.
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Hi, it's me again.
I found an 1800 locally (NW). It's not a driver now, it's a shell.
BUT...it's in good shape. Of course there is some rust issues but nothing major.
The current owner was planning to have it restored/media blasted, but changed his mind.
He's had it a few years, and before that it sat for 7-8 years. The owner before the current owner said something happened and it died. Thought it was a fuel pump, but decided not to fix it.
So currently, the car sits with the engine, transmission and rear axle out. It's on a dolly (which would come with the car).
It has a b18 and a m41. Don't know the state of the engine but other than sitting for a long time I doubt it's an anchor.
The headliner appears nice, the dash appears crack free and all the dials/bezels are there. Don't know how many (if any) work. The seats appear nice too.
It has no windshield (in it) or back window and side windows.
The guy also said IF I bought it, he would deliver it (which is a HUGE plus imho).
I'm not too concerned about putting the rear axle back in, or the transmission or engine. The insides being taken apart actually would be a mixed blessing as I wanted to put in sound deadening inside (but I didn't take it apart, so I wouldn't necessarily know what goes where). My only concern is the windshield(s).
Is that possible to do yourself? Or would I be an absolute idiot to try and tackle that?
Obviously rust is an issue, but it's actually relatively rust free. Needs rocker panels, but the bottom looked strong.
His asking price is 1700 for it. Is that reasonable? That includes delivery (about 30 miles of driving).
Thanks all!
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Some pictures would be nice...
For me, it'd have to be really, really straight and rust free to even consider $1700. And I know exactly how to put it all back together...
So many risks... missing bolts, missing parts, parts that are bad (and I'm talking engine and transmission.. big stuff)
The potential for having $5-10k into it by the time you've got a good car seems not unlikely.
Unless all work done and parts are very well organized and documented, I wouldn't pay more than I would for a parts car.
All that said.. if you do get it, you will know the car very well by the time you have a driver, and it would likely be a solid car with new seals and bushings and motor mounts and stuff...
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Im not worried about putting it back together, and since I'd be doing all of the work (outside of major engine repair), I think the costs would be reasonable.
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Talk him down to $500... that's what its worth.
Then offer him $1000 to deliver it.
Yeah, you caught me at a weak moment... And I have a soft spot for '65-66.. just cuz I have one.
Approach the seller with the idea of 'giving it a good home', and don't lowball.... That means more than money. It's a sweetheart.
What's it worth to you? If it's worth $1700 to you, great! If it's worth $1200 to you, well then be honest. Honest with the seller, as well as yourself.
See you in the Pacific NW in a month or two or three... Keep your eyes open for a red ES with CO plates.
But we gotta go east first..
George, see you on the flip side...
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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I read up some more into the prices/values of the cars, and I think to make it worth my while, it would have to be a smokin' hot deal. 1700 is too much. 1200 is not worth it. If the glass was in, maybe...but it's pretty much a shell.
The parts are there, but I'd rather not have to re-build everything. I'd be replacing seals, gaskets and other parts in the engine and transmission.
The body is in good shape, but I'd rather have one that I could drive.
So unless he's gonna go down to 500-600, I'm gonna more than likely pass.
I doubt the guy will accept that price (which is ok, it's his car. he can price it whatever he wants). He didn't sound like he was desperate to sell it (but that could've been his selling point).
It HAS been on ad since the 25th of March. Most of the ads I've seen (that aren't grossly overpriced) don't last that long.
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I made what I felt was a fair offer (I said 750-850), considering I have no idea if the engines or transmission are anchors or not.
He took it well, saying how he's had an offer of 1000 or something. Not sure, he spoke quickly.
The amount of money I'd have to funnel into it to make it a drivable car, let alone a running car, was too much for the asking price.
I saw a FI 1800 that was for sale for 500 dollars MORE and it was running, cleaner and had a TON of work done on it already (it sold, or the owner took the ad down). To get the one I looked at to be equal of that one, would be probably several weeks to a few months of work PLUS lots of money.
but for 600 bucks, I'd do it. 1700? no way. I think the guy wants closer to what he paid for it and thinks it's worth that (which is his right), OR he thinks because a friend of his says it's worth X dollars that it is worth X dollars (not realizing that something is worth what someone pays for it).
I had a VW Bug when I was younger that the guy who fixed it up for me told me it was worth 1800. I sold it for 800. I sold it for what it was worth, not what I wanted. This guy doesn't want to sell it for what its worth.
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You did the right thing. Yeah, people bitch about low-ball offers, but nobody cares about a realistic offer.
Asking price ranges on collector cars are all over the place. Realistic purchase prices are based on logic, and all too many times, sellers (or potential sellers) simply think their stuff is worth way too much...
Sure, restored it might be worth $10k, but gotta realize that it'll cost twice that or more to get it to that point.
The one thing I will do when I make a low offer is give the seller my info and simply tell them.. 'I know my offer is low, but that's what it'd be worth to me. Here's my card, in case you change your mind'
And doing so, I figure I'm about 50% at ending up with the car.
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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The glass is easy to install. You can do it yourself no prob.
My first reaction was that $1700 is steepish for a basket case with some rust problems, but good upholstery, dash pads and headliner are a definite plus -- that stuff is expensive, and the pads and headliner are not simple to install. I'd say it depends on how much rust repair you're prepared to do yourself.
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it's not a LOT of rust.
And body/surface rust doesn't phase me.
I'm considering that 1700 + delivering isn't too bad.
Although I'd see if I could do it for 1500..
It greatly depends on if I can sell my truck though. I'm having a constantly gas flow problem right now. Not sure whats causing it.
Thanks for the information though!
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Hello,
What year is the potential new project?
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
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66.
unless you wanted to drive up here and buy...then it's whatever year you dislike the most!
;)
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Hello,
You don't have to worry.
I need another project like I need another hole in my head.
However, I do like the 1966 and later 1800s/e due to the more robust rear suspension.
Stripped down like you described will make it a difficult puzzle to put back together, especially if you do not have previous experience with an 1800.
But you sound like an intelligent person and it is not rocket science and there are lots of people here who like to help.
Your biggest problem will be how many of the hard to get parts are missing and dealing with condition of the wiring.
And this is where previous experience comes in handy and even then some items will still probably come up missing when reassembly time comes around.
We have been brought more than 1 basket case and I distinctly remember in 1 case having to sort through 5 boxes of misc parts and hardware to determine what was present and what was missing.
It was a 122 wagon and I neglected to notice that the filler neck section that is mounted to the body and some of the other associated parts were missing.
Not all that bad for what I was presented and we had the used parts to install from another car, but I still missed it.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
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Thankfully, at least from what I could tell, the vast majority of the interior/bolts etc, are in the car in 1 or 2 bins.
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I have two recommendations:
1) Buy the Haynes 120/130/1800 manual. It's mostly about the Amazon, but there is so much similarity mechanically that it's the one to have. It's much more comprehensive than the Volvo shop manuals.
2) Join the 1800list on Yahoo! Groups. There is encyclopedic knowledge about all things 1800 on that list. You'll delete a great many posts that are not relevant to what you're doing or your particular car, but ask a question and you WILL get the right answer.
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Thanks!
I know with the 240 there is the "Bentley", is there nothing like that for the 1800/120?
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Nope, no Bentley bible for 1800s. I work on these cars for a living, and the Haynes is the most useful.
http://www.ipdusa.com/products/5111/101114-haynes-shop-manual
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I'd like to say thanks to the people who gave me advice on 1800's. But, so far, I don't know if I'm going to end up getting one.
there were two I was looking at, and one got sold and the other one I think got sold. Didn't receive any word about it.
He was open to a trade and when I offered my trade, his end went silent and the ad on CL was deleted. I think he didn't like how I felt my end of the trade was worth more than his was (and I was still willing to negotiate things).
But that's ok, I might've found a 62 122 instead.
Though I wanted an 1800....:(
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1800's are old ,prone to rust, and put together with all kinds of angles and curvesand hidden parts . Anything can be repaired but will it be cost effective is the question. A lot will depend on if you can do it yourself.
Good Luck
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thanks. I don't mind some rust removal, I've done that before. I don't even mind holes in the body (as long as they're not structural).
I looked at one today. it was in good shape (body wise) but more of a project than I wanted.
I want one that I will EVENTUALLY re-store from the ground up (or at least, do in sections) but not one that would have to have a lot of stuff done just to get it to a drivable state.
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Where are you located? I have a friend/client with a '68--a solid, running car--no "beauty"--but all there. He's been toying with the idea of putting it on the market. We're on Long Island. -- Dave
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Rust in the lower panel behind the rear wheels is cosmetic. Where you do have to be concerned is in the frame rails to the rear of the front suspension and along the transmission area. The outrigger rails with the jacking points also are heavy rust areas. If it looks like it has been repaired in those spots your next step is to give a closer exam with a small ballpeen hammer to try to determine the gauge of the metal repair. I've seen at least one beautiful looking repair that turned out to have been made with metal thinner than a tin can. -- Dave
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Thanks for the input.
Are the frames easily viewable from under the car?
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The frame is easily seen but were I buying an 1800 I would have some way jacking the car (safely & w/jack stand) to get underneath. A pocket screwdriver for poking around is an essential tool. The owner may not like having holes punched in paper thin metal but you as the consumer need to know. -- Dave
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There is a small electronic gizmo that you can buy to check for body filler - I would get one.
I have a '67 1800 on my patio. The last owner bought it in hopes of making it into a show car. Before he stripped it he had the suspension redone to the tune of $1900 - new shocks, springs, bushings, etc.
Then he took the interior out - the car has more patches than Raggedy Anne!
He then stripped it and sold most of the parts on ebay.
I bought the body, drive train, (less starter & generator) and suspension for $500. No dash, no seats, no trim, no interior, The body was patched and everything under and inside was painted with a body protector like undercoating and appears to be solid. I think that the undercoating was a clue to its real condition.
You definitely should take a long tour under the car and look under the carpets.
--
'96 855R,'64 PV544 driver, '67 P1800 basket case, '95 855, '95 854, the first three are mine, heh, heh, 485,000 miles put on 9 bricks
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