|
|
|
91 240 Wagon, 200+K, daily driver. Last week I suspected that I had gotten some wet gas. Had a hard start one day after work...stumbly start but eventually started. The following Monday, the car would not start, not even stumble. I was bummed. It has been awhile since I had to do the Brickboard troubleshooting thang. I write this post for someone else who may be having the same problem. I looked at all possible tips. No help. Everything rang out ok. I had put in a bottle of heet earlier this week, no help. Earlier this evening, I decided to crank it out longer than normal. I did get a stumble but no light off. I continued to crank and it started but extremely rough...so rough I thought the timing belt may have skipped a notch. Eventually, he cleared up but threw a 1-1-3 for injectors. I cleared it and everything seems ok for now.
So...we are in a season for water in gas so maybe some of the posts for no-start could be for wet gas.
Mark
2- 850's and a 245...
--
Hopelessly Volvoesque; 91 240, 95 850, 97 850
|
|
-
|
|
|
91 has no 25 amp fuse in the engine bay, so just listen when you let go of the key. If you hear the fuel pump run for a second after you crank and release, then your relay is okay.
Pull your plugs and see if they are wet after a no start. If so, it's a good bet your ECT, the coolant temp sensor for your injection, is bad. Sometimes you can get it to start with the throttle wide open. Sensor is under the #3 intake runner. If the plugs are wet, sensor is probably bad and you are running full rich at startup and gas fowling the plugs. Change the sensor, blow off the plugs.
If you have no EGR, you can get to the sensor with an extension, a deep 19mm socket and a universal. Tough, but do-able. You may break the old one on the way out. With EGR, still do-able, but requires the patience of a saint. Almost easier to pull the intake in that case.
I had the rough, stumbly bad/no start two years ago and replaced the ECT. Cured the problem. Aftermarket sensor only lasted two years as noted, and failed a couple of months ago. I put in a new Bosch sensor second time around.
DS
|
This post has been marked as an answer to the original question.
|
-
|
|
|
Dave...you made my weekend. I feel like an idiot for rambling on about water in my gas...blah blah blah. I should know better that there are always more things to be done to effectively troubleshoot a problem. I was getting wet plugs right away after I cleaned them and restarted then the problem would reappear. I changed the ECT sensor 1.5 years ago with a "non" bosch sensor. Must have been the problem. I changed it last night and put new plugs in and the car runs strong again. I did remove the intake manifold a bit to ease the replacement of the sensor. That is the only way to go after doing it the other way the last time. Thank you for your help!!
Mark
--
Hopelessly Volvoesque; 91 240, 95 850, 97 850
|
|
-
|
|
|
Interesting that you didn't get a fail code for a bad ECT. Did/could you bench test the failure for resistance readings?
|
|
-
|
|
|
yama, I have not bench tested the ect...i could, i still have it...I was so elated it started and I could retreat from the cold garage that I didn't even put my tools away! What kind of resistance values would I be looking for?
Mark
--
Hopelessly Volvoesque; 91 240, 95 850, 97 850
|
|
-
|
|
|
The resistance goes down with temperture. 32F around 5500ohms, 70F around 2500ohms and 100F around 1100ohms. Both pins to ground(the case) should read the same.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Glad that did the trick!
DS
|
|
-
|
|
|
"I looked at all possible tips. No help. Everything rang out ok" K? It's easier to help if you list what you did. And there are several good no-start step-by-step testing threads. I usually
- Check the 25A fuse - but I don't think you have one
- check/ remove/ clean the fuel-pump fuses
- jumper to see if fuel pump runs
- bypass the relay
- check the dot color and wire condition of the CPS
- unplug the MAS and start up
- check timing belt for a tooth jump
Your long cranking w/ brief rough running is often MAS
I just worked on a friend's 91 w/ a no start which he'd let sit in his garage for 9 months. I cleaned the fuses (remove, clean fuses and clips w/ soft wire brush & solvent) and then jumped the main pump at the fuse panel. Took a few tries. Here's what I think happened:
- the car quit, restarted; they limped home.
- next day no start
- he rolled the fuses but they were too oxidized
- he replaced the fuel pump relay w/ a bad one from a junkyard
- he replaced the MAS with an almost bad one
- He replaced the CPS with a new one but his old one was fine
The car had worked marginally through the oxidized fuses and the fuel pump ran hot. And then refused to run until it was hit a few times with juice.
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars
|
|
-
|
|
|
Well, I got out to the car today and did the following per your questions:
Check the 25A fuse - but I don't think you have one....I can't find a 25 amp fuse.
- check/ remove/ clean the fuel-pump fuses....I did this first, finding bad (almost broken fuse elements) replaced with new.
- jumper to see if fuel pump runs....did this, pump does run
- bypass the relay...not sure how to do this??
- check the dot color and wire condition of the CPS....I don't understand dot color. I did check the wire condition and plug contacts, seem ok.
- unplug the MAS and start up....unplugged the MAS and no start. I did follow the Haynes t-shoot guide on the MAS and where it says to read ohms at pin 2 and 3 for 3.5 to 4.0 ohms I got 3.2 ohms (not sure if this is a problem?)
- check timing belt for a tooth jump....I kind of ruled this out due to the fact that it did start and ran smoothly for some time.
I tried to "reflow the solder joints on the fuel pump relay. It didn't seem to help at all.
Any ideas?
--
Hopelessly Volvoesque; 91 240, 95 850, 97 850
|
|
-
|
|
|
Look through the threads here. The original CPS units have yellow dots and known problems; white dots = later = good ones. But check that.
--
240s: 2 drivers + some parts cars
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks for the reply. The CPS on my wagon has no dots. It has two tears in the insulation of the cable. I was just getting ready to go get a cps and a fuel pump relay when I read the Mr. Samuels post about the coolant temp sensor. Now I am not sure what to do. Any tips?
D. Samuels...The plugs are wet after start attempt. I hope I didn't bugger up the fuel pump relay reflowing the solder tips....some one has been in that relay before...i don't remember doing it myself?
--
Hopelessly Volvoesque; 91 240, 95 850, 97 850
|
|
-
|
|
The newer CPS (Bougicord/Electricfil) has a white band (tape) near the plug. Not dots.
Glad the ECT solved your issue. I was not aware anyone other than Bosch made those ECT sensors. Good to know!
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
What's the definition of a will? It's a dead giveaway.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks Art! I couldn't find any markings on my CPS cable. I decided to leave it in service for now since I got the old boy runnin.
Mark
--
Hopelessly Volvoesque; 91 240, 95 850, 97 850
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks for the tips. I will get out to the garage tomorrow to run through the list. I appreciate all the help from my fellow bricksters.
Mark
--
Hopelessly Volvoesque; 91 240, 95 850, 97 850
|
|
-
|
|
|
Everything rang out. What does that tell us? From where I am, I did not hear a thing.
Spark to plugs or gas to plugs. Where did they ring in all this? How did you confirm the timing was right?
Start us off with what is working and then what is not. Then we can shoot for the problem in the middle!
Phil
|
|
-
|
|
|
Phil,
I had spark at the plugs, checked wiring at the pump and under the seat (read in an earlier post). Disconnected the AMM and tried to start. Everything seemed to be ok.
--
Hopelessly Volvoesque; 91 240, 95 850, 97 850
|
|
-
|
|
|
113 is a a secret code for another problem. replace the fuel pump relay. read this thread.
http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1510373/tips_removing_fuel_rail_cleaning_injectors_1991_240_lh31.html
good luck, chuck.
|
|
|
|
|
