|
|
|
This is a B18 in a 1966 122, with Pertronix and original coil and armored cable. The fuel pump glugs out gas pretty okay when I crank the starter with the hose disconnected from the carb. So the car was great, I let it sit for a few days when the wet weather started, and the next time I started it up I had to take out the spark plugs and dry them off and pour starting fluid in the carburetor. It ran great all day, and the next morning wouldn't start again. Same thing each morning since, and it's been a week or so. This morning I tried to check for spark and I couldn't get a plug wire (or the coil wire) to jump an eighth-inch, that I could see.
I've read about using a jumper wire to ground the coil on the negative terminal with the key on, and pull the jumper on and off and check the high-tension lead for spark from the coil. I will do that, and I will take a multimeter with me to where my car is. I'm wondering if folks have a troubleshooting list for this? The ignition switch has been heating up whenever I run all the accessories. Maybe it is fried.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Has this engine ever started properly with the Pertronix? If you're getting the hot lead for the pertronix from the plus side of the ignition switch (OEM), then you don't have power when the key is turned to the start (not the on) position. This could be why you're not getting an arc at the plugs. I think a push button start is the best alternative. You could find a temp source of power (not switched) to test this idea.
|
|
-
|
|
|
(Has this engine ever started properly with the Pertronix?)
Yes, real reliably for the 6 months since I got the Pertronix.
(If you're getting the hot lead for the pertronix from the plus side of the ignition switch (OEM), then you don't have power when the key is turned to the start (not the on) position.)
Not sure about how the hot lead is wired. I know I ran one wire up to a permanently hot spade connector on the fuse box (not fused), maybe that was the hot lead for the Pertronix. But the switch never goes to the start position because I already have a push-button starter switch.
Only problem I have found so far is erratic charging from the alternator, acting like a poor connection on the alternator post. So tomorrow I will clean up all the connections and maybe do some soldering, and see if that goes away. It started right up after 8 hours on a trickle charger...maybe this is about a low battery, or maybe a starter that needs brushes. The investigation continues. I am happy I have another vehicle. Thank you for posting.
|
|
-
|
|
|
From reading all the new hints, I would guess the alternator is not keeping the battery charged enough to supply the voltage required by the Petronix. When you let off on the starter button, the Petronix finally gets enough juice but the engine has almost stopped rotating.
The starting fluid would have helped because it burns faster than gasoline and require very little spark to ignite.
Klaus
--
Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hm. Well today I am getting out my little brass wirebrush, and my soldering iron, and going over the connections to battery terminals and to the alternator. We'll see. Definitely something unsteady there, from the way the multi-meter readings jump around.
|
|
-
|
|
Hello,
You should measure the voltage drop from the battery to the ignition coil with the ignition on. A large value indicates a bad circuit through the ignition switch.
Goatman
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks. I have a multimeter. Not sure how to measure voltage drop.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Are you running resistor plugs? How about series connector spark tester? I know zilch about a 120, but do you have points to check?
All that being said, you wouldn't get it to start with starting fluid unless you had a decent spark. What about a choke function? People drive me nuts recommending carb cleaning and rebuilds, but it wouldn't hurt the car - just your pocketbook and clock.
Good Luck
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond
|
|
-
|
|
|
You can fry the pertronix by leaving the key on with the engine not running.
But the starting fluid thing sounds strange.
What carbs do you have?
Could the floats be stuck shut? Is there gas in the float chambers?
|
|
-
|
|
|
Choke is manual, and it works all the way from open to shut. The plugs are NGK, and yesterday I put new ones in. The carb is a Weber. This car has been running okay for a year. Pertronix went in about six months ago. Whatever it is, the car has been very hard to start for a week but after it starts once, it runs great all day. If I've killed the Pertronix it wouldn't run at all, would it?
|
|
-
|
|
|
The REAL sidedraft Webers?
Right. A fried pertronix is dead.
Does choking help it start?
|
|
-
|
|
|
Not sidedraft, just the single Weber conversion. Choking...well it won't start without choking it. But lately it won't start anyway without major time and trouble, taking plugs out and stuff. And today it didn't start at all. The starting fluid, I only did that one time, and I'm not sure if that was why it started or not, because I did other things too. I'm going to look at it now, and I will take a wire to act as temporary points to try and get a strong spark out of the coil. And maybe take a look at the wire that's supposed to hook onto the starter (and go to where?) cause often it tries to fire just when I let go of the starter button.
Thank you for responding. Any other ideas would be welcome.
|
|
-
|
|
|
..."it tries to fire just when I let go of the starter button"...sounds precisely like it needs a diode ORing cable for the power. Exactly how is Pertronix unit powered?
|
|
-
|
|
|
So today I cleaned all the connections and soldered all the wire-ends that weren't well-soldered before. I used the gray paste that Ron recommends for air-tight connections (can't recall the name). Now with the engine running the multimeter shows 14.6 steady, regardless of rpm. No more erratic output from the charging system. Maybe that will do it. But I thought of something else.
There's a starter button on this car. And a Pertronix with the IPD kit so you don't have to cut into the armored cable. I notice that turning the key to "start" while pushing the button...the car fires up. If I let go of the key it snaps back to the "run" position and the motor is running. Can I improve the spark at cranking by this method? It seems like it, or else why does the kit include that wire that runs to the lead on the starter solenoid? Must be a "spark while cranking" circuit there...which I haven't been using, and I never needed it because the battery has always been charged up...until a couple weeks ago.
Tomorrow when the motor is cold I'll see how it goes, and if the "key to start" method works when cold. Thanks all. Positive (+) thoughts.
|
|
-
|
|
|
If I'm reading this right....
The reason you fit the starter button is stop you breaking keys when fighting the strong spring in the switch when you turn the key to start the engine. You only need to click the key over to "ignition on" and then use the button to start the engine. If you're saying that the key snaps back it sounds as if you're turning the key past the first position and trying to start "normally" whilst pushing the start button. Depending where the button is you might need both hands for this.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Derek, Yes I had an idea it might help, if I did the two hand method. This morning was the test. It didn't help. So I spent the morning on connections again, this time on the wires around the starter solenoid. Much corrosion there, so once again I am hopeful.
BTW, inside the distributor cap, the rotor is just missing any post when the engine fires. There's a buildup of green stuff not on the face of the terminals inside the cap, but on the very edge. Is there a solution for this?
|
|
-
|
|
|
The rotor must not touch any post in the cap or it will destroy the cap or rotor. That green stuff is copper oxidation, an indication that moisture is getting inside the cap. Inspect the cap carefully for any cracks.
Klaus
--
Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Klaus, that's a nasty rotor in the picture. Mine looks better than that.
There is joy here. The Volvo has started normally the past couple of morning tries. I think this advice from Klaus was right: "From reading all the new hints, I would guess the alternator is not keeping the battery charged enough to supply the voltage required by the Petronix."
There was corrosion down around the starter solenoid, and when I took the wires off and cleaned everything (and threw away a couple of wires no longer in use) that seemed to do it. Plus I had already done the same cleanup/soldering stuff on wire-ends at the battery and alternator. In addition to your help, the Petronix troubleshooting page and the guy at NAPA also steered me in the same direction...toward the charging/wiring system. Thanks again brickers.
Klaus, I live in Tacoma, Washington. Anything copper here is green.
|
|
-
|
|
|
"BTW, inside the distributor cap, the rotor is just missing any post when the engine fires. There's a buildup of green stuff not on the face of the terminals inside the cap, but on the very edge. Is there a solution for this?"
Not sure how you can tell where the rotor is relative to firing unless you have one of those clear caps or x-ray eyes. A bit of buildup on the cap "contacts" (not actually contacts as the rotor doesn't touch them) is normal so you don't have to be in a hurry to clean it off by scraping etc. Just keep them tidy. The gap between the rotor and the cap contacts isn't critical. My car ran perfectly and started first turn of the key with the damaged rotor shown. No blade on it at all. Ran and started the same when I replaced it. (Not with that good one, I don't think that's a Volvo one)
|
|
-
|
|
|
Ron, The Pertronix has two wires, red and black. The black one goes to the negative terminal on the coil. The red one goes to a Y, where one leg goes to an "always on" spade connector on the fuse box, and the other leg goes to the solenoid on the starter. There it shares a terminal with the green wire.
|
|
|
|
|
