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1.) Is there any replacement compression spring available for the earlier style oil pump (the one with the 0.5" diameter ball bearing valve)?
I thought I found one at McMaster-Carr, but no, the wire diameter is .5mm too thin. I do not believe it would resist compression like the original. The resisting force is about half of what's needed (if my conversions to Newtons are correct)
Too bad, too, . Theirs is 39mm long and 11mm O.D. like the original.
Looking at the assembly, it appears the wear of the spring could be avoided if some kind of sheath, similar to a valve guide could be installed above the check ball. Any thoughts?
2.) The gear cover underside on my pump (114,000 miles) is scratched by the gears. Is this normal? I wanted to measure "end float" as per the green manual, but couldn't figure out how. Gear backlash is within spec.
3.) How the heck does the reinforcing ring from ipd actually install? It doesn't seem to "press fit" at all, but remains loose on the distributor shaft. Won't it fall into the pan if I later remove the distributor?
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IPD sells a sturdier spring - I imagine others have them also.
Yankee Trading in Easton may have either a stock or heavier one.
Usually spring wear is not too big a problem.
A few scratches are probably not a serious problem but be sure it is put together clean.
You can check end clearance with a straightedge and feeler gauges.
The ring goes around the oil pump shaft and stays there either by being a snug fit or by gravity.
The distributor shaft usually won't pull it out.
Note the manual diagram for timing marks and distributor gear placement are on TDC for #4, NOT #1!
So you should turn the engine 360° between then and running plug wires.
If you have too much end play in the pump gears you could lap the flange on the end of the pump to reduce it.
NOTE: I have had the auxiliary shaft work its way out of the pump and fall into the crankcase.
When that happens, the gear mills a postage-stamp sized hole in the pump body.
It doesn't pump after that.
Maybe you can stake the shaft in place, pin it or something.
Sure will ruin your month after it comes out.
Sorry I didn't get to see you when I was in PA in Aug.
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Hello, George. Yes it would have been good to see you again. August was a busy time for me as I was dedicating myself to completing requirements for getting my road racing license with N.A.S.A. , which I completed at Lime Rock, mid month.
In the following week I managed to crash three cars within 9 days, but that's another story!
I am still keeping your family in prayer, as before.
I'll go back to check the end float, given your instructions.Thanks.
This oil pump of mine is the early type with the ball bearing style relief valve, not the later, plunger-type for which ipd sells that spring and reinforcing ring.
My stock spring is worn about half way through the wire diameter on 3-4 turns....I wish I could remember how it looked upon dis-assembly, but I think it wore against the three vertical ribs above the ball valve that are cast into the pump body. It is here I thought one could ream out the top half of these and fit a collar above the ball to act as a guide for the spring, giving it a smooth tube to operate within. It would be necessary to know how high the ball valve travels in order to allow enough room, but I think the concept has merit.
Upon second look, I see that inserting a tube this far into it would actually block oil flow.
So, I thought well, the problem of spring wear looks to be one a spring deflection. It has a lot of wiggle room and rubs these pump body castings.(which probably guide the check ball, not the spring)
On the recess of the pump lid where the spring inserts, there is a good opportunity for inserting a collar to limit this deflection from the far end.
By my calculations, this recess I.D. is 12.5 mm, tapering to 12.0mm at the bottom. (this will be a bit of a nuisance, since this is where the collar needs to press fit into it)
The spring O.D. is 10.76mm so, one can see the opportunity to create a guide here to hold the spring vertical and centered on the check ball.
OK, what to use for a guide collar?
Hmmm. It just so happens that the oil feed tube for this pump fits the bill almost without modification!
I.D. = 11.00mm
O.D. = 13.00mm (just a snug larger than the opening of the spring seat in the pump lid
As for what length to make this collar, I think 8.00mm (exposed length)
This puts it just at the bridge that separates the check valve chamber from the pump gears. Oil could still readily flow all around the tube-collar. About the only flow restriction would be the spring is encased to this point, like having a solid rod, instead of a spring. Lots of room for oil flow around that, though.
The only mod, therefore, it the press fitting needed to insert the tube into the existing recess for spring.
Now if I just had a spare supply tube I was willing to sacrifice....
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The spring from ipd is a hunk of junk, throw it in the bin.
Seriously, the stock spring delivers more than enough pressure, increasing that pressure does nothing other that cost extra horspower to drive the pump & heat the oil up. Also, the extra strain on the pump causes the pump's driven shaft to split & then they insist you need the strengthening collar to fix a problem that didn't exsist in the stock motor.
Need proof? The exact same gears are in the B30 pump & it supplies oil to 50% more bearings no problem.
--
Three 164's, Two 144's, One 142 & a partridge in a pear tree.
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Unfortunately I already bought the ipd spring, not seeing the "note' on the ordering page that it is only for the later, plunger-style oil pump.
Interesting observation about it.
The compression spring from McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com/#metric-compression-springs/=92pt5e
is the right type (closed, ground round wire) and dimensions, but I would worry about it being too weak due to the 1mm wire diameter v. the stock 1,5mm size.
If my calculations are correct,using 5- or 7- kg which compresses the spring to specified lengths as per the Green Book, the 27 Newtons of the McMaster model are about half of what's needed (roughly 47N)
McMaster also has a stronger spring of more than 2mm but I think the dimensions change too much for it to be useful.
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What's wrong with the spring that came with the pump?
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Three 164's, Two 144's, One 142 & a partridge in a pear tree.
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Photo link:
http://picasaweb.google.com/89Volvotic/OilPumpSpringRepairMod?authkey=Gv1sRgCKCU-dW8t9LGQQ#
My spring is worn about half way through on 3-4 turns. Don't believe anybody makes a replacement.
The ipd spring is for the later, plunger-style pumps, not the early ones with the ball check valve.
I am calling a spring company today, however who has something I believe will work
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My local Volvo parts place sold those springs & I live at the end of the earth, surely you can get one in the USA. Have you tried Volvo?
--
Three 164's, Two 144's, One 142 & a partridge in a pear tree.
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Yeah, my local dealer is looking to Volvo for one, but we're trading faxes of the picture of if, etc.
Meanwhile a spring manufacturer I called left a message they didn't have a similar spsring of theirs on the shelf, but they went ahead and make one for me today!
It's gonna cost me $50 though as they have a ten-count minimum. Of course I'll just get the one. Unless I want to wait 2 weeks.
Nope. But I will try to talk them into sensibility with the hope of future quantities when I come up with my spring replacement kits for this repair.
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Don--why not work with the later type pump? -- Dave
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Dave -- I have that spring. It's about one-third again longer that this one. And smaller diameter. ipd clearly state it's for the later pump design. I meiised that point when I ordered it.
Even if I could cram it in there, it would bend against the pump body like crazy and wear fast.
Or, are there some other internals for this early pump that replace the check ball and use the ipd spring? I've not seen them.
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I'm not sure you undestood what I meant--why not just go to the later pump altogether. I was trying to think back--pretty sure I used a later B20 pump when I built the B18 for my '68. Hey, are you going to get your '69 together and come play at Summit Point in November with EMRA? Come hell or highwater I've got to get the Volvo From Heck back together (brakes, long story)--haven't been on track in two years. Time Trial will be on Sunday but they're talking about adding a few TT test & tune sessions to Saturday's race schedule. Now that EMRA is using transponders to time TT cars there's lots of seat time even though the day is split with racers. This past Pocono North TT brought out over 70 cars. -- Dave
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Well, yeah, I could get another pump but I'm trying to make enough phone calls and asking around so to avoid spending $150 for a new pump when it looks like it's just a worn spring ready to fail.
Besides, I'm having fun making new contacts with potential new vendors (a spring manufacturer). I may try to invent a repair kit for this pump along the lines of the observations and measurements I listed elsewhere in this thread.
I really enjoyed that November EMRA event in the past. I have one more door2door race with NASA at NJMP in two weeks and I still need to pull out the body work. I hit a Mustang, a Avalon, then crashed into a wall at Pocono entering the straight on the North course.
Three crashes in one week.....
As for the '69, I'm dressing it up as I pull it apart: new engine seals & painting, transmission painting, engine bay rust removal & painting, re-bushing the suspension, and rear wheel arch rot repair and painting. Then inspection and maybeyet I'll get to drive the thing once before winter!
At Summit Point? I dunno. Thinking more like keeping it a cream puff after all this effort.
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Tried Planetman? I'd use him first for anything, he stocks all kinds of oddities + knows what he's talking about.
--
Three 164's, Two 144's, One 142 & a partridge in a pear tree.
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