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Okay, so after reading nearly all of the old posts on the subject, I'm hoping for a definitive answer when it comes to the hierarchy of tail lights. Understandably NOS/OEM would be preferable. But assuming that isn't an option (for a variety of reasons) what is the next best thing?
If I'm going to go aftermarket, is URO better than APA? APA better than URO? I see IPD sells APA tail lights for a hundred a piece, but are they much better than the estonian 55.00 special? Could someone reasonably buy the estonian lights and replace the aftermarket circuit board with the factory board and bulb holders to avoid the melting problem? Would some pre-emptive silicone prevent water leakage?
I realize that there are times to save money, and there are times to spend. I'm just trying to figure out which time this is and still be able to pay for tuition.
As always, thanks for the input!
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5-Year Update:
So as I mentioned in the post I went with the Estonian El-Cheapos from Lampsandlenses.com (which now appears to be defunct). 5 years later I'd do it again, although they've held up so well that I don't need to. The only sign of deterioration is the 'frame' between the lenses; whatever they used to blackout the metal is starting to de-laminate a bit. There is no sign of filling with water, nor any significant fading.
These have never been garaged for any significant amount of time. They spent two winters in Minneapolis where they saw temperatures down to -40°, two winters in Champaign, Illinois, and another pair of cold winters. They're now in Boise on their second summer of what I'd say are some pretty intense heatwaves.
These are in a manual, so they don't see the same amount of heavy use that an automatic may throw at them. However, I always drive with the lights on no matter the time of day, so some of the panels are getting full-time use.
Hope this helps!


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Alright, so I decided after a lot of good advice and opinions that I'd go with the aftermarket Estonian lights from LampsandLenses.com. I also decided that I'd use the Valeo circuit boards and the bulb holders from my original tail lights. So far so good. No melting after two weeks with them. Some notes though...
I did a side-by-side of the brake lights, and they're just as bright, but the running lights and the turn signals don't seem to have as thick or as good of a defuser. You can see the bulb more clearly in the aftermarkets if that makes sense. It definitely doesn't look bad, nor would it be super noticeable, but it may be something to consider for those who are thinking of buying just one.
The one thing I'm waiting on is leaking. My OEM tail lights leaked like crazy (how they were full of water in July in the 100 degree heat I'll never know), so it couldn't be much worse but if for some reason it is I'll report back.
Thanks again for everyone's input--it made taking a 120 dollar chance a lot easier!
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If just the reverse lens is missing, you can buy a replacement reverse lens from FCP Groton and silicone glue it into your tail lamps. Apparently, the reverse lens falling out was enough of a problem that Cibie made another run of them in 1996 or so (the date code on those reverse lenses).
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OK, after a long time (now) has passed without tail light problems on any of the 8 240's I look after, I can offer some opinion based on experience.
After one sickening waste of money on a replacement set for a sedan, I decided the aftermarket route was out for me. At the time, those lamps were labeled as "made in Taiwan" and cost about two-thirds the best Volvo price, or close to $100 each. With that experience, I learned what others have reported -- that you should toss the aftermarket bulb holders and stay with the Volvo-branded Cibie or Valeo, because the spring contact material is inferior and its plating makes a poor electrical contact material in a moist environment.
The flex circuit boards are not the root of the problem as many assume. Look closely at the the plastic that backs them up, both at the bulb openings, and at the tongue that accepts the card-edge connector used on the wiring harness. I don't know whether that plastic is inferior to the Valeo plastic, or just that the contact resistance is higher, making any plastic melt. No, it is not the bulb melting the plastic, it is the poor spring contact connections.
The real kicker is, the Volvo genuine lamps are seemingly made better in every way, and once you get past the $300-per-set extortion, they kick you while you're down, when you find out they leak. And of course, leaks cause poor contact, causing intermittent operation and melted plastic. I figure, even though these are made in some Valeo plant, they aren't production items any more, and as such no assembly workers are really that good at catching these hidden defects in the welds between the black plastic housing and the colored lenses.
So, I have purchased somewhere north of four new OEM sets, and now they all have holes drilled in the bottom of their lenses, and hard-wired bulb sockets, which as we all know is NOT how the Volvo gods intended.
I think now I could start with the Estonian-made product, knowing the defects, hard wire them from day one, and save a bundle. This applies even to the wagon lamps.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
It seems like a lot of suppliers are only interested in plugging the hole with a part, rather than making sure the part is of high quality. -Benski
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The last five Volvos I've purchased have all received new, low cost aftermarket tail lamps. I do it for a couple of reasons...20-35 year old tail lamps look like crap. Even if you polish them many are hazed w/ fine cracks. But, the main reason I replace them is a result of intermittent bulb failures in the tails. The Volvo design of contacts pressing against plastic being heated by brake lights is less than stellar. Add to that the occasional owner deciding 2157 bulbs are brighter and thus better. Then add in people pulling the bulb contacts out further to make better contact as the socket slowly caves in on one side and rises on the other. And...that's on o.e. lamps! I've switched to LED tail/brake lights to reduce heat and also stay off the brake. Auto cars are generally worse as most folks roll to a stop and keep the brakes lit. Here in Dallas, after the car behind me stops, I keep the car in neutral, foot off the brake. Been known to set the e-brake if on a grade. Replacing them once is part of bringing them back to snuff. Replacing them a second time is just plain dumbness.
--
When Volvos are outlawed, only outlaws will have Volvos!!
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Hey "swiftjustice44":
Would you please provide some more information about the LED stop lamps that you are using?
I have been interested in doing this, but was not sure which brand of LEDs have worked well in this situation.
Thanks, John
--
If it needs to be maintained, repaired or replaced on a 1990 240, I've probably done it. '90 240DL, 287K (Almost There!!) Looking forward to 300K badge (or sticker??). >>You haven't really worked on a car until you draw blood<< :-}
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Not sure if this is where Swift gets his, but I'm going to give the fine folks at superbrightleds.com a shot. Seems like all their products are plug and play, and if they advertise during nascar, they've got to add at least 3-5 HP to the ride, right???
If you're skeptical, I'll take one for the the team and let you know how they turn out.
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I've had the Estonians on my 244 for several years and they have been just fine. I did transfer the OEM Volvo bulb holders over to the Estonians though, because they are a much higher quality. The Estonian circuit boards have been reliable ad the lenses still look good.
Charles
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Thanks, Charles! I'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on a pair of Estonians. I'm just holding off for a little bit to see what John has on the used lights...
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I just installed aftermarket taillights on my 245. For some reason the ones for the wagons seem to hold up better - time will tell. I got them from lampsandlenses for $ 38 each plus $ 10 shipping. Country of origin unknown.
For that price, I thought I'd try. If they hold up, I can use the money I saved towards the E-code headlights.
--
1992 245 187k
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Thanks for the source--their price point is Estonian in nature, but for some reason I feel a little better about them being in New Jersey and in business for 30 years. Doesn't mean their any better quality, just that I have someone to gripe to when they go south.
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I recently replaced my genuine Volvo tail lights because I wanted to dress up my car.
The old ones were not in bad shape at all. If you would be interested in buying them, let me know by sending me an email, and we can discuss.
John
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If it needs to be maintained, repaired or replaced on a 1990 240, I've probably done it. '90 240DL, 287K (Almost there!) Looking forward to 300K badge (or sticker??). >>You haven't really worked on a car until you draw blood<< :-}
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John--the email through the board bounced back. I am very interested as I'd rather have genuine parts on her than make some gamble on Estonian made stuff. If you could send a few photos my way at brian.maxwell.wiley [at] gmail [dot] com I'd appreciate it!
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I feel that if you're looking to save a buck, go dirt cheap because all of the aftermarket lights are made to meet a price point, not to give value. You have to decide how much value you can justify forfeiting.
I mounted a pair of $55 Estonia taillights on my daughter's 240 three years ago and they seem to be doing well enough. I would have paid a bit more for decent used OE lights if I could have found them, but since disaster seems to follow my sweet daughter, a new set of genuine Volvo tail lights would surely have been a gamble with long odds.
On the other hand, I just ordered a new pair of tail lights from TASCA at nearly three times the cost of the Estonia specials. The new lights will go on a very nice '93 5-speed sedan which just clicked over 80K. There was really nothing wrong with the original lights, but we are handing over another '93 to our son which needs new taillights, so, problem solved.
As far as the URO brand, it is the brand which made me stop buying from FCP. A few years ago, I ordered a URO-branded fuel pump from FCP who told me it was made in the USA. When I got the pump, it had a pretty blue paint job, but not an iota of identification on it. No manufacturer's name, no part number, no country of origin - nada. I wondered how URO even knew what it was.
I searched URO and their website proclaimed them to have an international presence but little else. I gave URO a call and after some verbal gymnastics, their customer service guy admitted that the fuel pump I had bought was made in god-forsaken China, not the USA. So much for URO with an umlaut.
Rich
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Thanks for the input. Having seen both the Estonian lights next to the TASCA parts (which I'm assuming are Valeos?) did you notice a big visible difference or a difference in fit? Any melted plastic on anything after running them for a bit? Bulb-Out sensor going nuts?
On one hand I feel like because they're a part I could presumably transfer to a new Volvo if old Åsa finally shit the bed I should spend the money and get the real deal. On the other, I feel like it might be overkill as this definitely isn't a show car.
It's funny, because if you'd asked me 2 years ago if this would ever be on my mind, I'd have said you were crazy. Apparently all it takes is a couple of weekends in the garage doing minor things and one IPD Garage sale and all of a sudden I'm replacing heater cores and doing my own suspension, and care about genuine vs aftermarket parts!
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Yep, you've hit the nail right on the head. I laughed out loud when I read your reply. A steady stream of $100.00+ white boxes from IPD has graced my porch for quite a while. There is a lot of satisfaction in 1. Doing the work yourself. 2. Perhaps saving some money. (I'm not too sure about this...) 3. Knowing that at least something in your daily routine isn't infected with cheap, aggravating, unsatisfying, and unsuitable "offshore" parts.
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I recently purchased a rear assembly with no origin markings from FCP Groton .. about $75 each sku 1372450. They appear to be a step up from the estonian model I have on another car and the box advertises "original quality". Both brands fit perfectly and function .. after a year or two of use the cheap estonians have no problems and no melting. We drive with the lights on all the time. The original factory units might have been beter ... buy 'em if you've got the fundage and nothing else to spend it on ... just opinion.
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Thanks! The lights you got from FCP, they weren't URO brand were they? Just trying to flush out which seem to work and which don't from past experiences.
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