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Hi all. I have a '82 245 GL with K-Jet that still causes some idling issues. And in the process of trying to figure out what may be wrong, I run into a puzzling question.
I always thought my brick is equipped with a B21-MPG. Even though it is 1982 model, I was told that some '82s in fact came with this motor. I am pretty certain that it is a MPG because it has distributor with a white cap on it. Although that is the only way I can confirm, from what I gather, it is MPG...right?
When I was tracing down the "Constant Idle Speed System," I noticed that the Coolant Temp Sensor in the car does not correspond with one for the MPG engine, according to the "green book." I have CTS part# 1306937-2 (for 1982 model/B21F CI)in the car, not the #1306024-0 (for 1981 model/B21F-MPG). Also, I have the ECU# 0280220005 which is for the 1982 model/B21F CI,according to the green book. I was hoping that my number on the ECU would match with the number designated for "1981 B21F-MPG" and I change the CTS with the right one then idling problem solved...not the case.
So my confusion is this...it seems like I have a B21F CIS just by referencing the green book, not the B21F-MPG from 1981. Although, once again, I thought I had a MPG motor... And some how, I believe this confusion is something to do with the idling issue. What is going on here? HELP!
I hope my writing make sense to you...Thank you!!
Toshi
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Toshi,
The answer is in the VIN#. According to the Green Book for CI systems the USA VIN # identifiers for an MPG engine is 49 and the year is B for an 81 and C for an 82. A sample VIN would be:
YV1AX (49) 4X (B or C) 1 XXXXXX
The MPG engine is a B21 F-9 with a Chrysler Ignition. A non MPG is a B21 F-5 with a Bosch Ignition. The temperature sensor should match the right ECU for the car since they have different resistance ranges. Hope that helps.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Mario,
Thank you for the information. My Brick, indeed, has "49" and "C" in the VIN...1982 with MPG, it is.
The the question still remains then...why does it has an ECU(of the Constant Idle Speed System) for the B21F CI (0280220005) and corresponding Coolant Temp Sensor (0280130023)? Has someone in the past swapped them out? I assume it is quite possible...because when I bought it, it was not running and it has had some poor work done to it. I wondered if I should look into swapping the ECU with the right MPG ECU along with the matching CTS? What do you think?
You know, I was just telling my wife, this site is quite amazing. As far as I know, this is one of the rare example of good, truly useful use of internet. Thank you so much for taking your time to reply to my posting, Mario. With folks like you, my brick will continue to live a long healthy life!
Happy Memorial Day,
Toshi
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"...why does it has an ECU(of the Constant Idle Speed System) for the B21F CI (0280220005) and corresponding Coolant Temp Sensor (0280130023)?"
According to the Bosch parts book, the '82 240 uses the same Idle control unit (005) and ECT sensor (023) with both the K-Jet and LH 2.0 FI systems.
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Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Thanks,
I understand that, in '82, both CI/K-Jet and LH-Jet came with the identical CIS system as you noted. The thing I am trying to figure out is why my brick, which happen to have K-jet with MPG ignition, has the k-jet/LH-jet CIS system. According to the green book reference, K-jet with MPG has different CIS system than one in K-jet/LH-jet. Confusing thing is some '82 like mine came with MPG which commonly has seen in '81 models... I am trying to correlate the idling issues with this discrepancy of the CIS system.
I guess the question is has someone previous swapped out the CIS system to more "'82 appropriate" K-Jet/LH-Jet system or, for the '82 B21F-MPG, were they originally equipped with the "K-Jet/LH-Jet" CIS system even though it is MPG? Thoughts??
I hope what I am trying to say make sense...
Toshi
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Toshi,
In looking at the CIS info in the Green Book it is a little confusing. To answer your question I will look at my CIS ECU this week and get back to you with the number. Mine is an original, since I have owned the car for 26 years. The temperature sensor should follow the ECU model for an 82.
Just as an FYI, if your idle seems to stay high at times make sure you have done the base idle setup and check the A/C switch. The switch has a small micro switch on the back that tells the CIS ECU to raise idle 50 to 100 RPMs if the dial is move out of off. The switch broke on mine and caused intermittent faster idles. It took me months to find out. I fixed it with crazy glue.
Also idles changes can be caused by air leaks. Check your injectors seals for leaks. When they get old they leak air. Another one that took me some time to fix.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Mario,
Confusing, indeed. Assuming you have another one of these '82 with MPG, I would appreciate very much if you can check on your CIS ECU and which temp sensor you have...again, I have a sensor with white plastic connector with ECU# ending in 005, currently.
I do have the intermittent high rpm, occasionally. It seems to happen after engine has warmed up. Poor idling before warm up, like at a stop light in the morning on the way to work, is another annoying symptom I cannot figure out. A/C switch, as far as I know, is not working...maybe it needs to be looked at as you suggest...could you tell me more about that or is this "micro switch" pretty self explanatory once I see it?
I did replaced injector seals last summer, so I doubt they could be the culprit...
Thank you so much for your help!!
Have a great week,
Toshi
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Toshi,
After checking, my 82 has the 005 ECU and the matching 1982 Temperature Sensor and they are original. My car was built in Nov 81. It looks like you have all the right CIS parts, so your problem is a defect not an improper substitution.
As far as the A/C switch is concerned all you have to do is check the back and you will see the setup. If it is broken you will notice it. Idle problems on a K-Jet usually go back to air leaks. Carefully inspect all air hoses and intake plumbing for leaks. Good luck.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Hi Mario,
Thank you so much. I just want to make sure...your 242 has MPG correct? Thank you so much for taking your time to chaking into this for me.
I will take a look at the A/C switch along with all the air/vacume lines. I know I need to replace a few lines around flame trap... Wish me luck!
Cheers,
Toshi
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Toshi
Yes, mine has a 49 and C in the VIN# so it is an 82 MPG. Just make sure you check the base idle setup first. The procedure is in the Green Book or Bentley. This will put you in the ballpark for the CIS system to control the idle or tell you if the CIS is working at all. The CIS/ECU is only capable of working within given limits. Good luck.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Thanks Mario! Untill next time...
Cheers,
Toshi
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Toshi,
The answer is in the VIN#. According to the Green Book for CI systems the USA VIN # identifiers for an MPG engine is 49 and the year is B for an 81 and C for an 82. A sample VIN would be:
YV1AX (49) 4X (B or C) 1 XXXXXX
The MPG engine is a B21 F-9 with a Chrysler Ignition. A non MPG is a B21 F-5 with a Bosch Ignition. The temperature sensor should match the right ECU for the car since they have different resistance ranges. Hope that helps.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Hello,
I have a tendency to repeat myself, but not like this. Have no idea what happened.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Toshi,
The answer is in the VIN#. According to the Green Book for CI systems the USA VIN # identifiers for an MPG engine is 49 and the year is B for an 81 and C for an 82. A sample VIN would be:
YV1AX (49) 4X (B or C) 1 XXXXXX
The MPG engine is a B21 F-9 with a Chrysler Ignition. A non MPG is a B21 F-5 with a Bosch Ignition. The temperature sensor should match the right ECU for the car since they have different resistance ranges. Hope that helps.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Hello,
I have a tendency to repeat myself, but not like this. Have no idea what happened.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Toshi,
The answer is in the VIN#. According to the Green Book for CI systems the USA VIN # identifiers for an MPG engine is 49 and the year is B for an 81 and C for an 82. A sample VIN would be:
YV1AX (49) 4X (B or C) 1 XXXXXX
The MPG engine is a B21 F-9 with a Chrysler Ignition. A non MPG is a B21 F-5 with a Bosch Ignition. The temperature sensor should match the right ECU for the car since they have different resistance ranges. Hope that helps.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Hello,
I have a tendency to repeat myself, but not like this. Have no idea what happened.
Mario
--
82 242 DL-MPG
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Toshi,
The answer is in the VIN#. According to the Green Book for CI systems the USA VIN # identifiers for an MPG engine is 49 and the year is B for an 81 and C for an 82. A sample VIN would be:
YV1AX (49) 4X (B or C) 1 XXXXXX
The MPG engine is a B21 F-9 with a Chrysler Ignition. A non MPG is a B21 F-5 with a Bosch Ignition. The temperature sensor should match the right ECU for the car since they have different resistance ranges. Hope that helps.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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Toshi,
The answer is in the VIN#. According to the Green Book for CI systems the USA VIN # identifiers for an MPG engine is 49 and the year is B for an 81 and C for an 82. A sample VIN would be:
YV1AX (49) 4X (B or C) 1 XXXXXX
The MPG engine is a B21 F-9 with a Chrysler Ignition. A non MPG is a B21 F-5 with a Bosch Ignition. The temperature sensor should match the right ECU for the car since they have different resistance ranges. Hope that helps.
Mario
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82 242 DL-MPG
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