My 84 240 wagon stalled this morning after starting up fine and running for a minute. I popped the hood and noticed the fuel pressure regulator hose was brittle and cracked and had come off. I pulled one off my 240 and put it on but
no go on the started. It cranks fine.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

thanks, Kirk

I have just had a similar situation on my 1987 740 GLE sedan 270K.
I eventually disconnected the ground wires for the injectors at the manifold.
Cranked over and engine ran rough until fuel ran out.
I left the ignition on reconnected ground wires a relay buzzed.
Restarted, engine ran rough working out the flood condition.
After through warm up ran steady/still idle, Has for 2 weeks.
Prior to all above, I swapped out One at a time;
In tank, And in line fuel pumps, FPRelay, FPRegulator, Radio Supression relay, power stage, IAC, throttle body, Air mass sensor, ECU, Distributer,-My connector to the hall sensor was hanging away from distributer base. Coil, plugs and wires.

All this still gave me no start until I disconnected the Injector/s ground at manifold.
Prior the engine would stumble then run smooth on 3 cold morning start ups.
I might add the engine harness is the up dated where the insulation does not turn to goo or crack up.
'83 245, '86,'87,'89 740GLE
--
Don in Spokane.

That's interesting Don. I'm curious as to the status of the plugs initially.
Mine are dry ie. no fuel even though fuel is being pumped. I'll certainly give that a shot though. I did disconnect and reconnect the ground wires but I'll try what you did.

thanks, Kirk

When I changed the plugs they were not wet, Or sooty. A grey color to the insulator. They were/are BOSCH wdr7 I believe.
I did find White crud between the plug and wire connection.
The plugs have been in for years. 1996
I did notice months prior a drop in gas mileage, From 25-27MPG to about 20.
When I had this No start problem, Turned ign. on to start It would stumble Twice then nothing but cranking. I let it sit for days at several times Same stumble Twice, Key off, Crank no firing Even after all the swap outs.
I was pleasantly surprized at the abrupt firing and running of the engine after disconnecting all the wires bolted down on the manifold with the fuel rail and leaving them in the air.
I thought I had a wiring fault, or a bad timing belt.
The buzzing that I heard While reconnecting the injector grounds with the ignition on may have wiped clean dirty or stuck contacts.
I hope this was helpful, The only time my 1983 245 did not start like this, It was a high mileage timing belt broken while the wife was driving.

--
Don in Spokane.

Any advice for getting fuel into the throttle body. I know I don't want to get the throttle position switch wet.
I noticed the wire to coolant temp. sensor is completely bare, would that cause a no start? The wire harness looks quite a mess actually underneath. Bare wire to the starter solenoid as well.

Am I wasting my time changing the fuel filter. I was getting fuel from the return of the fuel pressure regulator.

thanks, kirk

The fuel filter is letting gas through so don't worry about it now.

The harness may be part of the problem and does sound like you could use a replacement.

You can get starter fluid (ether) in an aerosol can and spray it into the TB from a vacuum connection.
Dan

So I sprayed some starting fluid into the throttle body and still no start or turn over. We heard a couple of pops and neighbor could smell it out of the exhaust. One thing that comes to mind from the past couple of months is that occasionally upon starting out I'd get a bit of a stumble within the first minute or so after my first slowdown and then acceleration.

I'm stumped.

thanks, Kirk

I'm lost on this, do you have spark and fuel?
Dan

Yes, I have spark and seemingly have fuel.

If you have fuel through the injectors then you may have a timing issue. I'd check the timing marks for the timing belt.

Make sure you did what Lucid suggested, he has the experience with your particular ignition/injection systems.
Dan

That's kind of the only thing I can think of at this point as well. I mentioned in a previous post that my old timer neighbors first mentioned timing. One of them pulled a plug and told me to crank it to get #1 to top and then looked at the position of the rotor and said it should be pointing at #1 but it was 180 degrees off. Does that sound right or possible?
The only think I can think of is that it's getting spark at the wrong time so won't fire up.
And something just struck me as I type. There were 2 instances where I was driving and heard a loud noise that sounded like a belt slipping to me. It was cold and early in my drive so I figured it to be fan belt noise as it went away.
Could the timing belt have jumped?

thanks, Kirk

Dizzy turns once for every 2 turns of the crank. If you had turned the crank 1 more turn to the next TDC of #1 the rotor would ahve been aligned correctly. I guess the old timer forgot that.

I think it is time to check the valve timing, the belt may have slipped on the cam leaving the ignition timing as is.
--
David Hunter

Ah, I'll let the old timers know. I recently had the valve cover gasket and cam seal replaced and I don't think they did the timing belt for some reason. I was doing it because I had to get it smogged and I know it failed smog because of the timing and the shop said he thought the mechanic had put the timing belt back incorrectly. I can't recall all of the details but it eventually passed with flying colors. Perhaps they didn't adjust the tentsioner properly?
How much play should there be in the belt? I can push it in a fair amount when I
pull back the top of the cover and push on the right side of the belt.

thanks again.

The timing belt runs very tight. There is spring that applies tension to a pulley, then the pulley is tightened. That is the final step when installing a belt. There are details in the 700 Faq section (same engine).
--
David Hunter

There definitely seems to be a little play in
the timing belt when I push on it so I'll look
into that next chance I get. Perhaps it's time
I learn how to do the timing belt. I'm still
a little confused as to the hall sensor's role.
Can I rule that out if I'm getting spark and the
tach moves a little when I crank?

Thanks

There are 2 separate functions inside the distributor. As long as the engine is rotating the hall sensor sends a continuous string of pulses to the ECU where they are processed. The ECU among other things controls ignition timing and passes the timed pulses to the ignition amplifier and then to the tach and coil primary. The coil secondary then generates the high voltage spark pulses to the rotor which sends them in turn to each plug wire.

If the ECU does not see a good signal from the hall sensor when starting it will not turn on the fuel pump.

If the ECU does not see a good signal from the hall sensor when starting it will not turn on the fuel pump.

It's the other way around , David. The (FI) ECU gets it's "permission" (pulses) from the Ignition CU when it responds to the Hall Sensor signals. Only then will the ECU initiate FI operation.

Spark trumps fuel. No spark no fuel.

EDIT: I modified a canned post on LH2.4 start/run. Let me know if I goofed or missed something...

Start-Run Sequence LH 2.0/2.2 Version

1) During starter cranking, the distributor Hall sensor sends timing pulses to Ignition Control Unit (ICU)

2-a) The ICU send these Hall Sensor pulses the Ignition Coil (– terminal) to generate timed high voltage pulses from the coil.

2-b) At the same time, The ICU also sends the pulses to the FI ECU, to initiate FI operation (no ICU pulses means no Fuel pumping).

3-a) The Fuel Injection (System*) relay (previously energized at Key On) powers the AMM, IAC, ECU, Injectors, and Fuel relay coil + side.
* The LH2.0 System relay is adjacent to the Fuel relay (same relay type).
* With LH2.2, the System relay is in the white case as the Fuel relay.

3-b) When ICU pulses are received by the FI ECU, it activates the Fuel relay by grounding the relay coil (– side) to run the fuel pumps and power the injectors, etc.

When all these things work, the engine runs until the Ignition is switched off, which in turn shuts down the FI system.

--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Hi Bruce,

Looks right to me. Check my assumptions after a scan of this thread: OP has spark, fuel at rail, but no fuel at plugs. Pumps operate without intervention. Has not yet tried squirting a bit of carb cleaner into the manifold through the FPR vacuum port. Has partially repaired original 1984 engine harness.

First thought I have is fuse 13 circuit like you did. But fuses are "fine".

Next thought is injector wiring is shorted in harness, and injectors are not getting turned on. A borrowed 'noid light would prove or disprove that in 10 minutes. Wonder if the chain auto stores lend them out too?

My '84's harness needed more than just visible damage repaired.




--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"The more people I meet, the more I like my dog"

So I'm still trying to track down this no start issue that's been plaguing me.
I tested the injectors with the noid light and they all seem to be pulsing properly. I'm leaning toward a slippage of the timing belt but I'm still a little unclear as to why the plugs would still be dry.

thanks.

Hmmm. Injectors being pulsed, fuel pumps operating (I think), and still dry plugs?? That would have me scratching my head too, and wondering did a backfire pop your FPR vac hose off and wipe out your AMM? Is there really fuel pressure? Crack the fitting open, does it spurt? I re-scanned all the responses and even Santa didn't suggest unplugging the AMM for a test. I must have missed something. It doesn't sound like a slipped T-belt to me, but that sort of occurrence really hasn't been part of my Volvo experience.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Most would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism.

Initially the fpr hose was cracked and not even attached when it stalled and I popped the hood to check it out. I have tried to start with AMM unplugged and I swapped out the AMM with another for testing purposes with the same result.

I actually did spray starter fluid in the throttle body and still no start.
I got a couple of popping sounds and neighbor/assistant could smell it out the exhaust. I guess it could be the wiring though I'm not looking forward to that one, it could be beyond my capabilities.

Thanks for tips, much appreciated.

Kirk

Kirk,

If you have spark and fuel, it appears your injectors aren't working. Art had this to say above...

"Next thought is injector wiring is shorted in harness, and injectors are not getting turned on. A borrowed 'noid light would prove or disprove that in 10 minutes. Wonder if the chain auto stores lend them out too?"

I vote for the noid light too, at this point (or sooner). But even if chain auto stores don't lend them, you might find one (Bosch type) for under $10. Just saw one for $2.99 on ebay. I paid IPD $6.95 for one on a weak moment some time ago.

They all look basically alike (see below) but terminals vary by FI injector type (maybe working voltage too?). You just plug it in place of an injector and watch it while cranking. It will flash if voltage (constant from Fuel relay) and pulsing ground (from ECU) are present.




--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

So I bought a noid light online and checked all of the injectors and they're all fine. I'm not sure what to try next. I have spark, it appears I have fuel, though the plugs are dry, all relays test fine. The wires to the coolant temp. sensor are very worn, would that cause a no start situation possibly?

thanks, Kirk

Thanks, I just ordered a noid light on ebay and it should arrive by the weekend, which is when I'll have to check it out anyway.

best, Kirk

Yes it could jump a tooth or two and still run poorly. If the distributor is 180 out it is not going to run.
There is a tick mark on the distributor that corresponds the location of #1 plug wire. The rotor should point to that mark when #1 cylinder is at the top and Cam mark is lined up with both #1 valves closed. This is TDC of the compression stroke.
Dan

See what happens if you dump a couple of onces of fuel into the throttle body. If it starts and runs for a few seconds you know valve and ignition are OK.
--
David Hunter

Still no start. All fuses are good. Fuel expelled when the return line from FPR is disconnected. Fuel relays check o.k. and I can hear the pumps running. I'm getting spark at the plugs but the plugs are still dry. The plastic hall sensor connector is broken but the wires look fine, the tach moves a little when cranking, and I'm getting spark so am I safe to rule out the hall sensor?
I disconnected the AMM and no change.

A few years ago my wiring harness melted at the grey connector and shorted out. It was repaired as far down as could be reached and the wires at that point seemed o.k.

Not quite sure what to check next. The old timers from next door and across the street weighed in and had me crank with a plug out and looked at the rotor and said it should be pointing at the #1 plug but it was out 180 degrees. I know what they're getting at but that doesn't seem possible.

Any help greatly appreciated.

best, Kirk

I had a similar problem with my 84 after a short road trip. Shut it off and then no start. Turns out the electrical connector at the ICU was not making good contact. Electronic cleaner, a wire brush and dielectric grease took care of it. Also check the condition of the infamous gray connector on the firewall. Good luck.
--
Harold Thompson '84 245 Virgos

bf3VzB ftersdgtykmt , [url=http://woinlbijcopg.com/]woinlbijcopg[/url], [link=http://qgrkwtvjqxbz.com/]qgrkwtvjqxbz[/link], http://cancaflsthod.com/

A leaking vacume line to the fuel pressure reg would not cause a no start. A disconnected coil would, a cracked plastic connector might if the electrical connection is broken.

You will serve yourself better to logically diagnose the problem.
Check timing belt by making sure cam is turning, just look in the oil filler.
Check for spark
Check that fuel pumps are running
--
David Hunter

I've been away from the car for a few days and was
only able to have a quick look this morning
and I have a suspect. It seems like the plastic
connector on the distributor is loose or cracked.

I've had very little time to diagnose the issue.
Fuel pumps are running and coil seems ok.
We checked for spark at plugs and were getting
spark, then took off cap to check it's condition
and after putting back on we didn't get spark.
That's when I noticed the connector on the side
of the distributor. I reseated cap and we got spark
but no start. I did hear a couple of little pops
when cranking but no start. Further investigation
us pending.

Thanks for the tips. I'll check cam movement
tonight. The timing belt was recently replaced.

Kirk

Sorry I thought you said coil connector. In any event it sounds as if you have a flaky electrical connection maybe chafed wires at the entry point into the dist. I think you would need to resolve that before considering other causes.
--
David Hunter

Timing belt is o.k. I'm getting spark at the plugs but the plugs are dry.
Thinking back on it I'm remembering that there were a couple of times when I
was driving where I'd step on the gas and there seemed to be little power, almost
like it was trying to get fuel but something was not allowing it to.
The pumps seem to be working fine and I swapped out the main pump with another that I had. There was a slight change in that it seemed to almost want to start for a second but then back to nothing, just cranking.

Am I correct to assume that if the plugs are dry and I'm getting spark that it must be fuel delivery related? It still strikes me as odd that the only obvious thing I noticed was that the vacuum line to FPR was broken and off and I've no idea how long it was like that.

thanks, Kirk

Are you sure the in-tank pump is working? Is the little hose that is known for wearing holes alright? If the new main helped a little maybe it was able to pull a little fuel from the pump. I guess you could try disconnecting the FPR and having someone something to catch fuel while cranking. If no fuel is coming out then you've got no fuel pressure. The main pump is running so I'd guess the pre-pump isn't giving its share of help and/or the hose inside the tank is causing the pressure to never materialize. Think of when you crack a straw and try to drink a fountain drink through it. Just doesn't work even though its just a small crack.

I like the idea of putting 12v right to the pre-pump to hear it run. Not sure where to get volts nearby so you don't have to run a long wire from the battery. Be sure to ground the pump too.

No or lower vacume at the FPR RAISES the regulated fuel pressure by as much as 9 psi, that will not cause a no start or dry plugs. If no ignition pulses from distributor can be detectected by the ECU that will kill spark of course but it also prevents fuel pumps from running.
--
David Hunter

So since I'm getting spark at the plugs I can rule out problems with the hall sensor connector or distributor and focus on fuel delivery?

I think the FPR hose event is a red herring.
Here are some known suspects for no fuel with the LH 2.0 system

1) The 25 AMP blade fuse near the coil. Also check it's wiring, including the red wire feeding it from the Battery + terminal.

2) Fuse 13. Maybe not blown, but poor, corroded fuse terminals can block +12V from getting to the Fuel relay coil.
[No dash warning lights when you turn the key on would also point to fuse 13.]

3) A 3-wire connector somewhere near the ECU can also kill the Fuel relay or its +12V output wire to the pumps. The connector has a Y-R wire from relay to pump, and a also BL-Y wire in changing to BL-R out (to Fuel relay coil. The 3rd wire is Red-White (I think) for AC control.

I think your Fuel and System relays are somewhere above the passengers toes on the firewall. You can feel and hear them if/when they get energized.
• The System Relay (One Brown and one Orange wire output) should click when the key is turned on, and stay energized till the key is turned off.
• The Fuel relay should click during cranking, when the ECU makes the ground for the coil when it gets timing pulses from the Ign Coil terminal #1 (wire with thick gray insulation).
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

All fuses and relays check out o.k. I'm getting spark at the plugs.
The fuel pump runs when cranked and I can smell fuel but there's no indication
of fuel getting to the plugs.
I guess it could be a clogged filter though that seems a bit unlikely....

best, Kirk

yes, i strongly suspect that the hall sensor connector is dodgy and need to inspect further.

thanks, Kirk

I don't think that was why it stalled or won't restart. Check the fuses and thencheck for spark and fuel to get an idea where to start looking.
Dan

http://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1342960/220/240/260/280/starts_help.html