OK, In American cars you have a "Throw out" bearing. Is there two bearings on the Volvo M47 Clutch assembly? Groton is showing the two I mentioned in the 'SUBJECT"

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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Volvos have a release bearing (or, in American, a throw out bearing). At the back of the crank they also have a pilot bearing (an actual ball bearing) while American iron has traditionally used a bronze bushing. That is changing now, as well--when I had a local clutch builder put the parts together for the clutch in the VolvOldsmobile--Cutlass 215 aluminum V8 mated to a Camaro Z28 T5 inserted into a 240/260 body--I was offered the choice of a bushing at about $2 or a real bearing at about $5. If you are doing a clutch in your car be sure to replace the pilot bearing. -- Dave

This so "ho ho ho".
A 1936 Ford V8 used the SAME size pilot bearing as a red block Volvo.
Some had bronze bushings, some have ball bearingzzzzz.....
GM stuff, of course, is dead crap.

Bushing... yeah I got it. It's been a few years since I did a Clutch. AND when buying it in Kit form, it's all there.
It appears I have to get in the Trani to fix a Spring issue. I was thinking of doing the Clutch While the Trani is down but really, I may just drop the Trani since I'm guessing it's quick as compared to getting at the Starter Bolts and playing with the clutch cable and all that jazz with the Bellhousing.
Drop the Shafts, Crossmember and then the Trani to Bellhousing bolts and Pull.

The clutch is doing fine so I guess I'll wait.
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Hello
looks like the tranny to bellhousing bolts are going to be difficult to get looking at the one i have sitting in my garage, the bolt heads are inside the bellhousing.
good luck
Mike

If you're in there, I'd replace the throw out bearing as well as pilot bearing. Every once and a while, I think I hear the throw out making cricket noises on the '90 wagon. The PO had the clutch replaced, but the shop didn't bother with anything else. Hoping I can wait for the clutch 'til goes.

-Ryan
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Athens, Ohio
1987 245 DL 314k, Dog-mobile
1990 245 DL 134k M47, E-codes, GT Sway Bars, GT Braces, Draco Wheels
1991 745 GL 300k, Regina, 23/21mm Turbo Sway Bars

No question about that. When I do have to do the Clutch... It all gets changed out.
My clutch has 300K on it... Original. It's showing no signs of going so just dropping teh trani should be fairly easy to fix that Spring.
I'll see what the Bentley book shows me. I couldn't find what I was looking for at K-Jet.Org. Then I hope the impatient, obnoxious jackasses at the Volvo Parts Counter will let me fumble forthe part number on the Microfische.
I wonder if it's worth trying Tasca for a small part like this
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Tony, Not to get you depressed or anything, but if the car you're fixing is the '89 you have in your list of vehicles and not a 140 or 122 you will have to deal with the starter bolts and clutch cable, as the bellhousing to tranny bolts are inside the bellhousing. If you need l-o-n-g extensions--I can help you out there. -- Dave

I should be able to help out finding a p/n for the spring, and I'd go for Tasca. I've had good luck with them, and not dealing with parts counter people is always nice.

I think I have your e-mail address.... I can send a screen grab of the parts diagram with part numbers.

-Ryan
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Athens, Ohio
1987 245 DL 314k, Dog-mobile
1990 245 DL 134k M47, E-codes, GT Sway Bars, GT Braces, Draco Wheels
1991 745 GL 300k, Regina, 23/21mm Turbo Sway Bars

I'm looking at the exploded view of an M46 on page 432-2 in the Bentley

I see the Spring you are talking about (Item 45)

The M47 is different; Page 432-4 I don't see what Centers this shifter on the M47 there's a spring ( Item 29) but I can't see how that does the job... I could be wrong It does come up from the shaft that goes to the shifter.
Boy I wish had a scrap Trani to open up before tinkering with the real thing.
The cover comes off without anything shooting jumping out at me..right?


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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

hello Tony
when you remove the cover at the front (bellhousing) there is a ball and spring up front and center.
for me it fell into the tranny case and i fished it out with a mirror and magnet.
most likely you will need a new gasket, or you may use whatever you wish.
the gasket on mine came off in pieces.
before my install i took off the cover to flush out completly w/brake cleaner.
not the gears but just the gunk on the bottom.
good luck
Mike

Hmmmm.... check figure 5 on 432-6.

Looks like there's a spring on top of the selector plate, that's hiding in the explodogram. The thing is, I can't find a p/n for the spring separate from the selector plate (1377620, $58.31).

A scrap tranny would be handy right now.

-Ryan
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Athens, Ohio
1987 245 DL 324k, Dog-mobile, E-codes
1990 245 DL 137k M47, E-codes, GT Sway Bars, GT Braces, Dracos
1991 745 GL 304k, Regina, 23/21mm Turbo Sway Bars
Buckeye Volvo Club

Dropped the trani and opened it up. Yup, one of the little 'bumps' by that spring broke loose and lodged in the corner of the Plate and Cover. Lucky me, it didn't drop down into the gears.

OK, just tried TASCA, Three times. I get through, I get hung up on. I try again, I get the parts guy and then, I get hung up on.
I would do this on line but I cannot seem to find the part using the part number or description. What the Heck?
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Hi Tony:

I have been following your issue and wonder if you went to MD to pick up the free M47 to practice on before your tear down?

Did you remove the entire trans from the bell housing and take it out to work on it or where you able to access from above?

Maybe it is just easier to to to your local Volvo dealer and get the small part as it should not cost that much more and it you are a VCOA member you can get a 20% discount.

Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for your many helpful tech tips and suggestions! I have a '93 244 M47

Regards,

Al

Hi Al,
This morning I dove in and dropped the trani without have a spare to learn on.

The guy in MD was blowing smoke.. because when I finally decided to take him up on his offer to "come and get it" he suddenly wanted to open up Negotiations. He wasn't happy at all with my offer.. I haven't heard from him. I hope he doesn't need my help..
Anyway. It took 2 hours to get the trani out of the car. The one Bolt just to the drivers side of the Crank Sensor is impossible. I can't imagine how I'm going to get that one back in.
I will order a new Selector Plate from Volvo I'm glad the nub that broke off was part of the Plate and not part of the Trani Housing. I did manage to pull the rear flange off and replace the Seal for that. Then I scared myself and went for it. I took the rear plate off the back of the trani to replace the Shifter Shaft seal. I managed to do it with the Shaft still installed. It's tiny but I punctured through the Seal with a small screwdriver and carefully played it until it came up and off. With a 1/2 steel pipe, I cleaned up and rounded one end and it worked perfectly to put the new seal in. Neither seal fits very tight..No pressure there I guess. I did put a film of RTV on each seal so they should stay put.
Monday I will try AGAIN to order from Tasca.. they hung up on me three times today Grrrr. And tomorrow I will put the new Clutch in and Paint the Shifter bracket and Clutch fork.
OH... The way these tranis are designed you have to take the bellhousing with the trani. It's bolted from inside the Bellhousing. That's the only reason why I'm doing the Clutch.

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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Tony:

Glad to hear that you have things somewhat under control. Regarding BB members and the classified or "free" so far my experience has been 8 out of 10 were "smoke" or a rip off. Only a few things have been OK. Ebay is much more reliable. Perhaps since most of those who post on the BB know what is what and for those of us that know we want to keep the good stuff ourselves for future use. The guys that offer "free" or as you put it free with "negotiations" or for sale are normally getting rid of crap!

I had the same problem many years ago with a 142S 4 speed the top plate (shift pattern restrictor) broke. I replaced the clutch at the same time as well.

Are you replacing the clutch cable and pilot bearing? Are you getting the flywheel machined?

How tuff was it to get the M47 out by yourself? Did you use a trani jack or cradle on a floor jack.

Oh and yeah that one bolt that goes through the bell housing to the starter is the worst bolt I have ever tackled. I used a 1/2 inch steel bar to rap the bolt head on the firewall side after a multiple PB Blaster soak to mechanically dislodge any chemical bond at the threads. Even with that it was a bear but finally worked,

I would use anti-sieze on the starter bolts on reassembly to prevent the corrosion from ruing your day in the future.

How many miles were on the existing clutch and how much was left on it?

Did you use a Sachs set up?

Thanks & good luck. Hope you are taking digital pics to post as some of us would like to see this on your site.

Regards,

Al

Are you replacing the clutch cable and pilot bearing? Are you getting the flywheel machined?
****After seeing the Flywheel I opted not to get it machined it looked perfect and I had no issues with it.
**** no on the Clutch cable. It's smooth and no rust and it's easy enough to do If and When I need to.
**** Yes on the Pilot Bearing at 300K miles I owed it a new Bearing. AND I was glad I did it. after pulling the old one out, It was OK, but a bit noisy.
The SACHs Kit gives you a Bearing but it looked cheesy and had a metal shell covering the bearings, I bought one from Groton and it came with the same plastic/rubber shell as the OEM.


How tuff was it to get the M47 out by yourself? Did you use a trani jack or cradle on a floor jack.
****Getting the trani out was not bad.I used a floor jack but I think next time I'll just wiggle it out and Press it down onto my chest. These tranis are not that heavy. 120lbs ish. The jack actually got in the way because teh trani has to rotate and it wanted to fall off the jack. Here's a hint: Pull teh trani out about 1" (to clear the Crank positioning sensor bracket) rotate about 45 degrees then pull the rest of the way out. Putting it back up...another story.


I would use anti-sieze on the starter bolts on reassembly to prevent the corrosion from ruing your day in the future.
** all the hardware got Anti Sieze . well the Flywheel and Pressure plate got drips of Loctite.

How many miles were on the existing clutch and how much was left on it?

****The Clutch had just under 300K miles (297...)and measuring with Calipers, I spent up about 0.040 off the clutch and I had about that left on the clutch before I would hit the rivets. 1/2 million mile clutch.
Although the Sachs clutch is new and measures thicker, the rivets stick up higher then the original so the mileage will be less between changes. Wasn't happy to see that. All things being equal, Probably get 250K on this clutch.


Did you use a Sachs set up?
****yes. Grotons more expensive kit was the SACHS kit. It DOES come with the Alignment tool. Groton said it didn't come with the tool or the pilot bearing.. it came with both.
I have more hints on getting it back up, if you are interested lemme know
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Tony:

Thanks for the reply. As you know I have the '93 244 manual M47 and will need a clutch change in the near future.

The last clutch I did was in 1975 on my 1970 142S. I guess you would say I am out of practice and will need some help by the BB when I decide to tackle it,

As I recall, when I dropped the trani at that time it was not that heavy and was managable.

Any further hints that you can give would help. Did you take any digital pics to place on your site?

I have a Sachs clutch set in stock ready to go. Once you get the bell housing and trani out how hard was it to change out the rear engine seal. I seem to recall that you had to manipuate the engine angle or something like that.

How is the cluth working now and do you think it has more grab facilites greater power transfer than the one you replaced.


Thanks

Al

Good for you! Sounds like it all worked out.

Thanks for the Part number... That is # for the M47 Plate I assume. I just went to my local Dealer and he wants MSRP for it.
I tried using teh TASCA website to find the part. Without knowing the part number, they have no info on the Trani. http://www.tascavolvoparts.com/index.do

Looking up trani parts, you would think that all they offer is one seal.
I'll drop the trani and open it up and see what is going on. I guess it wont be a 1 day job since I need to explore then purchase the bad part. AMSROADRUNNER offered me a dead trani but dropped off the grid when I was going to take him up on his offer.
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

That would be great.

I still do have a little Play in the Shifter from the time I did the Pins, Collar and bushings. If I remember correctly, I only bought 1 pin. I thought that was all that was in there.
I have those part numbers so I'll grab those parts as well since it's all apart anyway.
Thanks Ryan.

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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

FYI the entire M47 gasket set is $34 at the dealer, everything in an M47 that's needed, front to back, p/n 271575. If for some reason you remove the bellhousing from the trans box, you will need this kit for the shaft seal & front case gasket. Make sure you don't disturb the front 1/2 input shaft, and keep the shims in the right order.
The last time I got an M47 shifter plate it was $52 from Swedish Engineering.

While you're at it, make sure you replace the two dowel pins in the shifter linkage swivel sockets and the springs for the detente balls on the shifter rails (top cover).
If there's still some slop in the shifter, drive out the small roll pin at the base of the chrome handle and replace the two rubber bushings inside the handle.
Also check the shifter cage bushings.
When you seal up the transmission box w/new gaskets use only thick lithium grease, not silicone sealant.

It's all done and back in and working.

The roll pins were tight, I just did them a year ago.

The Shifter Plate was Listed at $79 from the local dealer, Went to order from Tasca, ($58) all of a sudden they decided it was no longer avalable. I thought they were a dealer, how could one dealer get the part but another cannot????

My friend, who owns a collision shop and has an account with the local dealer, got it for, well he wont tell me. I assume it was the typical 20% off list, I gave him $60.
I guess it isn't totally uncommon for the spring mechanism to fail on these tranis?

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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

That spring is the most common to cause slop in the side to side shifter gate, but usually is 200k+ miles before it is so bad it needs replacing.

When I did my M47 seals in July I decided it wasn't that bad at 275k miles, so I left it alone, and wish I had replaced it. I'd like to find a new spring and drill out the rivet and not need to replace the whole shifter plate.

The 'Pin' that sticks up between the Spring came unriveted. The Pin was all intact except the Peened over part broke. I was almost going to Tap the Hollow Pin and run a screw up in it. If it didn't hold up I would have been ticked.
I may try it and see if it looks like it will hold. I guess I could have ran a screw up the New one as added support.
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'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

I believe you will find the pilot bearing to be part number 181799

Tasca shows it for $10.15 and FCP Groton shows one for $4.00

Randy

I believe you will have a pilot bearing and a clutch release, (or throwout) bearing. Same as most US built vehicles. The pilot bearing fits in a counterbore inside the flywheel(actually the end of the crank, I misspoke here) and takes care of the input shaft of the transmission, and the clutch release bearing fits on the clutch fork. Similar stuff, slightly different terminology is all.