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Hi all. Someone has a very nice 92 wagon for sale, slightly over 100,000 miles, no rust on body, nice leather interior, bunch of work recently done (steering rack, front end, rad, etc.). AC works. It has an oil leak, that may be the rear engine oil seal. Also apparently a valve cover oil leak. Not mint, but excellent shape (owned by original senior until last year). I'm getting my mechanic to look at it tomorrow and assess the leaks etc. Is $4000 a reasonable price to pay for something in this condition? Thanks!
p.s. I'm in the North-East.
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Here's what my mechanic found wrong with it:
- all shocks leaking, recommended replacing all
- 2 stuck pistons on front brake calipers
- transmission oil is old and needs replacement/flushing
- small oil leak on cylinder head gasket
- transmission cooling lines slight leak (either rust or loose)
- a few smaller things, not really noteworthy
The seller does not appear to want to reduce below my original offer, claims someone contacted him from out of town with keen interest.
Do I walk?
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Sadly, I think I'll pass on it and incur the mechanical inspection cost. THe other thing is, there is no indication in the paperwork (the low mileage DOES check out legit, by the way) of the timing belt having been done, so I'd have to factor that additional cost. So, to get it on the road in a reliable shape (in addition to the $4K buying price) would be shocks, some brake caliper work, tranny flush, PCV/flame trap obstruction check, timing belt, plus the air emissions test (assuming I don't have problems there). Starting to add up, even thought it IS a very nice 245 wagon... Oh well, other fish in the ocean, as they say....
Thanks for the advice, all!
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1990 VOLVO 240 WAGON
5 spd, silver, pw, pdl, 160K mi, recent brakes, maintained by Volvo mechanic, $2900. (860) 871-7191 (4X). Vernon Rockville, CT
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Thanks. I'm in Ontario Canada, so don't want to consider cars for sale in N-E US. Maybe the prices are a bit lower in New England etc, due to supply and demand. Anyway, good ones do come along here too, but this was the nicest one I'd seen in a while, so it had my captivated until the realities started adding up ($$$'s). Search goes on....
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Tell you what. You find me a very nice 544, and I'll trade you my 1985 245 GL with 116,000 Documented miles. She needs nothing. Repeat, Nothing. Everything that was required has been replaced, or renewed within the past year.
Bill
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posted by
someone claiming to be trichard
on
Tue Jun 3 04:53 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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no you don't walk.......you RUN!
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posted by
someone claiming to be V70driver
on
Tue Jun 3 15:37 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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Why did you hate this car so much? The price was a bit stiff, and I agree that it was too high after the owner refused to go down to accommodate the need for shocks and other repairs. But I repeat, a good rust-free body and intact interior is worth a lot if you want this kind of car. Not many truly clean ones are left and rust has devoured many.
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i did not hate the car at all.
the price relative to the "known" work that needs to be done represents VERY poor value for money imo.
i made the comment based on economic considerations. the car has all the earmarks of precipitating in the questioner a strong case of buyers remorse should he purchase it.
choosing solely based upon a nice body is no guarantee of future happiness.
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http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/car/703243712.html
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in the north east you can find a load of 240's on any given day on craigslist for way under 4000 and way under 3000 with mileage in the 100-150,000 range.
here in massachsuetts there are usually a dozen or more between the various craigslist regions.
for 4 grand it should need nothing in the way of reapirs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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re: "..., nice leather interior, ..."
Volvo 240 wagons rarely (if ever) had genuine leather upholstery. Usually it was some sort of faux-leather "naughehyde" (sp?), a slick surface backed by a tough canvas -- appropriate for the more abusive, carry-anything purpose of these great wagons.
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Ken,
My 85 245 GL is real Leather. The factory brochure calls out the leather interior as being standard equipment in the 245 GL model, and the window sticker called it leather as well. It has handled the previous 23 years very well, with minimal cracking. I have used saddle soap and an annual application of Mink Oil. It's as soft and supple as when new. The DL wagons did have either cloth or Pleather. When was the last GL built?
Bill
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The only 240s to have leather were designated GL. There were other trim differences too, but a GL is mechanically identical to a DL of the same year. They are relatively rare. I don't think they made them as late as 92. The leather only came in two colors that I know of, black and tan. Some of the earlier (late 70s) ones may have had other colors---now about I think of it I seem to recall a 78 265 that had a very pale, almost off-white leather interior, in a light green metallic car.
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Well, it's likely vinyl then... Black in colour and in good condition. Quite different profile than the cloth seats I'm more used to seeing in the 90 240's. The interior door trim colour-matches the seats. Headliner is beige vinyl. I'll see if I can attach a picture...
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Yes it is leather, the buttons are a dead give away. The 92 SE did come with leather. Dan
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It's leather. Vinyl does not surface crack (bedlast) like that. You have black leather seats. The sides of the seat cushions are vinyl. The seating surfaces are real.
Bill
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As far as I know, that's what the leather seats looked like, so I think you're good, at least in that respect. Mileage sounds good. You'll have a few things to replace with age, but my '90 with 262k mi brought me from Iowa to Alaska three years ago with about $1k in fixes and many more miles on the clock. Still running strong and a candidate for a manual transmission transplant if I get a good long weekend here somewhere soon.
Zach
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The oil leak may be as simple as replacing the flame trap, and cleaning the oil seperator box.
Bill
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Yes, I have read often that a clogged flame trap can generate oil leaks (increased crankcase pressure?). Wouldn't it be nice if it was as simple as that. A "master Volvo mechanic" apparently told the seller he thought it might be the rear main seal, I would have thought he would have checked the flame trap first (maybe he did). We'll see...
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My 1985 245 was serviced for years by Volvo, "Master Mechanics". At 70,000 it was puking oil from every crevice, and seal. I decided to service the car myself, and when I finally got the flame trap off the car, it was plugged solid. The repair orders called for replacement and I had been charged for the service, but it was obvious from the baked on crud on the holder, and related parts that it had never been touched. The vacuum signal port was also plugged solid with carbon, and required several probings with a fine wire and spray solvent to clear. With the trap replaced, and the oil seperator box cleaned, the oil leaks vanished. There is now a flame trap relocating setup on the engine, and it is serviced at every oil change, and the oil seperator is flushed with solvent prior to draining the crankcase oil. The engine is tight, and clean once again. So much for the so-called Master Technicians. The ones with whom I was dealing are robbers, minus the firearms. My little Helga runs better today than it did while under their care.
Bill
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posted by
someone claiming to be BG
on
Mon Jun 2 09:47 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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The interior is really nice and the body has minimal rust, I suggest you buy it. Mechanical things you can usually repair, but it is really expensive to get an interior and body into nice shape. Maybe some of you guys have a greater tolerance for beat-up-looking transportation, but I like all parts of a car to be in good shape.
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Yes, probably worth it, as the miles are fairly low, you will no doubt get another 100k out of it. The 240s I see for sale in this area at half that price are usually beat cosmetically and mechanically...I would buy it if it appeals to you.
Jay
84 245 GLTi 235k
88 740 GLE 220k
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Thanks guys. I have certainly seen cheaper ones for sale (I picked mine up for $1700 3 years ago, and have maybe put $1500 into it to keep it running), but have not come across one quite as nice as this one. The leather interior is most nice, first time I've come across that. My current 92 wagon has over 200,000 miles, the AC quit on me last year, and it's a lot rustier underneath and here and there than this one is (as I said, no rust is visible on the body, and just a bit here and there underneath). Must have been well cared for during its life. Like someone said, what car can you get for $5000 that will reliably get you another 100,000 miles?? I'd drive mine longer, but it's gotten to the point where I don't have as much confidence in it anymore, and it's starting to slide beyond the point of recovery (rust). My mechanic has a keen eye, so I'm sure he'll point out anything major I may have missed, or the seller may not have divulged. I'll let you know how I make out.
p.s. are these cars typically troublesome when it comes to emissions testing? I need to have it pass to get it licenced.
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Try to confirm the mileage, the odometers fail on a regular basis on these cars. Are there any repair records or get a carfax check.
Expect to put another $1,000 - 2,000 into it to get it in shape
Dan
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Yes, good suggestion on the mileage. The seller says he has almost all the records dating back to 1992, so I will be looking at them before I buy (while mech is looking things over). Here's a few of the things he's replaced since acquiring it last year: new OEM exhaust, strg rack rebuilt, P/S hoses, t.rod ends, ball jnts, contrl arms, hatch harness, rad core, d-shaft u-j. Looks like the vehicle sat for a few years since the orig. owner was elderly and ailing.
Agree with the suggestion that VG exterior and interior are selling points.
Cheers!
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I would say that if the oil leaks were repaired, the car was safety and emissions tested, and there is in fact no rust, then it would definitely be worth it for $4000.
On the other hand, if it ends up needing say, a rear main, a blower fan and rear trailing arm bushings, then it probably isn't. Tell your mechanic to be critical-- tell him to pretend he was buying it for his daughter!
Good luck!
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I have tried to convince the seller that the money he has invested in the car over the last year ($2500, I think he paid $3500 for it) was in part the typical $1000+ that someone has to spend on a 15 year old car to bring it up to snuff, and in part the typical annual maintenance costs - $1500 say - on a vehicle that old. And that at the end of the day, the car is still only "worth", say, $3500 (debatable, depending on location and numbers of nice specimens for sale). I deduct from that $500 to cover off possible work to repair the oil leak (ie. if the transmission has to be removed to replace the rear main oil seal), because I don't think that should be passed on to the buyer, it's a flaw in the car. I also deduct $300 because the vehicle is sold without safety or emissions (a catalytic converter would cost that much and may well be required to pass emissions, based on my experience). So the final offer is $2700, in large part based on very good body and interior, and overall good mechanical condition of the car (barring a few things like shocks, stuck calipers, etc., which in my estimation is part of a new buyer needing to bring a car up to snuff, and/or part of the general running costs).
IF someone is willing to pay more than that, they're more than welcome to have it! Cheers.
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I think $4k is top end.
BUT:
- mileage IS quite low
Check for rust...check cleanliness of oil, and take a look inside the valve cover for degree of 'black/sludge'
Only big job you've mentioned would be the rear oil seal, but check for a clogged pcv/flame trap first...more often the cause of leaks.
Any car will require some expense after purchase. If you can get the car in really good shape for less than $1k after you buy it, then you've got a car for the ages at a pretty good price.
For comparison, I bought a '90 244 with 165k miles last week for $900. I expect
to spend around another $1k to make it 'right'.
Good Luck
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Value is entirely relative. I certainly see your point about paying as little as possibe.
However, perhaps a different perspective is in order. A 100k Volvo 240 has at least another 100,000 left in it. Assuming the initial cost is under $5k, what else for that money has another 100k left in it?
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I would keep shopping. Thats the price range for a well preserved 240 in a volvo dealership.
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