posted by
someone claiming to be lynn
on
Wed Apr 23 12:37 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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I'm pondering a purchase beyond my 240..something good on gas with 2 air bags (passenger and driver) and go forever!! I think I'm spoiled with my 4 240's! I saw a 960 with 70,000. they are asking top dollar, though. How are those 6 cylinder cars compared to the 240 holding up wise, road worthy, and gas from the 4 to the 6?? Where are the weaknesses? Also what about the line of..S40.60 80?? As you can see i have no clue about model numbers, that's how un familiar I am about those. I know the 900 series is still rear wheel and probably less to go wrong and cheaper to repair. Thanks for any input.Also is the suspension any different from the 240's....wondering what the ride would be like...Lynn at chmtnbliss@cs.com
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posted by
someone claiming to be trichard
on
Thu Apr 24 13:46 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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lynn,
my 30 yo daughter recently went through this very conversation with me when she asked me to help find a volvo and out of her hideously expensive to maintain honda odyssey.
she likes the 960 and 850 because of modernity of styling and cache.
i spent months trying to persuade her to look for a 940 4 cylinder non turbo wagon. it took 6 months of back and forth. she finally agreed and we found a 93 na 940 wagon with 92,000 miles. after doing some preventative work for her she has been driving it happily for 2 months now.
these were my reasons to her for staying away from a 960. we will leave the 850 out of the picture for this discussion.
1. the 960 is a 2 cam, 24 valve 6 cylinder engine versus a 1 cam, 8 valve 4 cylinder 940 engine.
2. those extra valves and cam will produce a LOT more power and smoothness of acceleration at the cost of generating a huge increase in heat from the all aluminum block which needs to be dissipated. this is means 2 things .....the cooling system MUST be maintained in scrupulous condition. ALL aspects of it. and the oiling system must be maintained in perfect order.
3. this means you must know with certainty if the previous owner flushed and kept up the cooling system according to specs. AND they changed the oil and filter RELIGIOUSLY (3000 miles) using quality products.
4. if either or both of these areas have been badly neglected or just haphazard you will have sooner or later major expensive repairs.
5. the head on the 960 has smallish oil passages which if the oil is not changed properly will narrow or clog in time (100K) ....the resulting decrease in oiling will cause the camshafts to eat themselves to death thru heat and friction.
6. the cooling system is not tqat much bigger than the 4 cylinder engine and so must work much harder to dissipate the huge increase in heat produced.
you decide. if you know with certainty the 960 in question has been maintained according to volvo specs you might have real sweet ride. if the maintenance is unknown you are playing roulette.
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posted by
someone claiming to be trichard
on
Thu Apr 24 13:53 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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lynn
one more thing i forgot to mention about oiling.
the red block 240 and 940 4 cylinder engine remains sound even when the oil has not been carefully changed.
the white block all aluminum 960 engine has smaller oil galleries which if they get narrowed or clogged because of poor maintenance CAN NOT ....short of dismantling the entire engine EVER be really successfully cleaned out once narrowed or clogged.
ask any professional volvo mechanic with long experience on these engines and they will tell you this.
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I enjoy my 960's and 850's and have owned 240's,740's and 760's,but to answer your main question,no 960 is as trouble free as a red block rear drive car.The 850 is less problematic than a 960,but has a few typical(such as AC evaporator)problems that are expensive to repair.Do not buy a turbo anything unless you really need the extra,expensive to repair bonus horsepower.
Bill
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Hey , I have two 940 turbos one being an se model . I like the B-230ft but they don`t get as good gas mileage as my 245 non turbo . I believe the mileage on the non turbo gets at least 4 to 5 miles a gallon better than the turbos . Gas here is nearing the 350 a gallon mark . The 940 is a great car and my choice would be the B-230 4 cyl. any day over any engine . If you need the power,the turbo has more than enough . The 91 940se is a 960 only with a 4 cyl. turbo . The 92 940ft I have does not have the independant rear suspension but in my opinnion rides just as good with less to go wrong . The se model , like the 960 is more glued to the highway in a panic situation . The se has more electronics . My wife loves the car , it has 60k on it and looks new but I hope it holds up as good as the 92 940ft with 180k and I have had no major problems with it and it was her car until I found the like new se model . The 850 is a front wheel drive and I am not as familar with these . I would wonder if they may be a safer car in the snow as they also have better traction and winter driving mode . Hopefully someone here can give an opinnion on this . There is no better car than a Volvo to put your family in and a lot of people sacrifice saftey for good gas mileage . Hope this helps . Larry
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You may also want to consider a 940, it's RWD, redblock, turbo available if you want and similar body and interior to a 960
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I am pondering the same question. My wife won't drive the 91 240 I have, but she said she will drive a 960 or 850. I am not sure of the nos. either. The interference engine and timing belt make me nervous in the 960. The 240 with the non-interference engine gives me piece of mind. I am also nervous about the 960 trans. Most of what I know is from reading the 700/900 FAQs. I would really love to buy a good looking rear wheel 960 or 850 for $3200 if I can. I would love to have a turbo. These cars don't seem to hold their value which is good for folks like me with multiple teenage drivers. Not sure why the don't hold value maybe folks want BMWs or SAABs. We also have a 90 760 which has been a family original purchase hand me down, a great car.
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posted by
someone claiming to be lynn
on
Wed Apr 23 13:25 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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Hi JAYTEXAS!! .thanks for the help...what is the interfernece engine?? and what about the timing belt?? Never heard about either...thanks, Lynn
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In May 2005 we "jumped " away from the 240s to a 1997 965. After owning a 1975 245, 1979 245, 1981 244, 1983 245, 1984 244, 1986 266 and a 1988 244, it was a big difference.
Noticed - silent and smooooth ride, at idle had to look at tach to see if engine was running, got used to the 740/940 dash layout, (really miss the extra places on the 240 as I want a voltmeter), and the 5 inches wider body.
The car came with owner's manual and copies of the Volvo dealer's service records from 53K to 125K when I got it. Without that I wouldn't have bought it.
It runs nicely on Mobil-1 5W-40, all year. Has the 15-inch wheels, but some have 16.
The moonroof leaked until this January when I found a used roof in Austin (200 miles). The Volvo people wanted around $900 for a new roof, so we waited until I located a wrecked S90.
Timing belt and serpentine belt (drives everything else) and their tensioners are a DIY job, but a good indie shop can do for just under $1000.00. The enginechanges as of the 1995 models provide a change cycle of 70,000 miles.
Same oil filter as the 240 - the Mann 917. Cannot use the same oil change ramps though, as the 965 has less ground clearance and more distance between the front tire and the front bumper bottom so the bumper hits the ramp before the tire gets to the ramp. So far I have used a nearby Meineke Muffler shop and paid them $10 to put the car up and put in the oil and filter I provide. Every 5000 miles or so. I have to add a quart between changes.
Some post-1994 models have the Nivomat self-levelling rear shocks. I think that option dropped after 1996, though. I had Sears install Monroe rears last year. Not great, not bad, and that's all I could find away from the dealer.
Suspension is VERY different from the 240, front and rear. The front might be similar with the 740/940 cars, as the platform is basically the same.
Rear is independent, with the differential looking like it is bolted onto the body. Rear spring is a cross-ways mounted leaf spring made from 1-inch think fiberglass. Comfy but tight ride.
Antifreeze is Volvo, at $24 a gallon. Urk urk. Dilute to 50/50 with distilled water. Had a small leak problem, but replacing the coolant reservoir fised it.
Dash warning lights include low coolant, and low windshield washer fluid. Nice.
Also has a superb (to me) audio system: Am, FMx2, CD, and 6-disc CD changer. Six speakers.
We like the remote access and alarm system, too.
The OBD-II system makes the annual emissions test quick, if the CE light is off. It never is, but no one has found out what, in the evaporative emmissions control system, is at fault. I have found a way to get tested, though it makes it necessary to run the car on the dynamometer.
The AW40 computer-controlled tranny is fine.
1997 is the last year for the 960 Series. The 1998 versions are the S90 and V90. S=sedan, V=van or wagon. There are some minor changes. If you search, either the 1997 or 1998 should be of the best.
Used parts are not easy to find, especially when compared to the 240 parts "pool".
IF you get one, AND it is a 965 or V90, AND you want to add a third row seat, CONTACT me. We have no use for the one we got.
Highway mileage before E-15 was forced on us was around 26mpg running 70-75. In-town is still 19-21. Wife commutes daily 45 miles round trip.
Let us know what you get.
Regards,
Bob
:>)
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Interference engine means the valves and pistons will contact each other (somewhat catastrophically) if the timing belt should break. The early years of the 960 had a skinny timing belt with 20 or 30,000 mile change intervals. Most people forgot about them and ended up rebuilding a cylinder head or sending the car to a wrecker because of a broken belt.
I'm a somewhat fortunate beneficiary of someone else's similar misfortune. It seems the $1500 for brakes and a coolant temp sensor was more than the owner could swallow after spending who knows how much on a cylinder head rebuild 6 months earlier. I picked up a beautiful '92 960 that now has new brakes and a coolant temp sensor. It runs beautifully. The inline 6 is an absolute dream to listen to. It's smooth, loves to rev and has pretty good scoot. I'll certainly buy another...and I've owned close to a dozen 240 series cars...
--
Dale
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The 960 is an expensive car to maintain unless you DIY. And even then, the parts ain't cheap and it can be difficult to work on because I don't think the engineers designed or did their worse case analysis on maintaining the car. There are many bolts and nuts that require a creative mind to figure out how to get to them. Ask anyone who has worked on changing the intake gasket or from what I read, has removed the head...it's a mess to repair yourself.
Having said this, I must admit my '97 is a smooth, well-handing car, for a street car that is, and is as reliable and comfortable as any car I've owned; as long as you maintain the fluids.
'97 Volvo 960
'00 Toyota Taco
'73 Datsun wildly mod'ed turbo track car
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dr. Chip
on
Fri Apr 25 04:47 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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Reliable is the key word.
For me, all of my cars have been reliable, american, german, swedish.
Flukey, annoying at times, but always reliable.
Preventative maintenance was at the basis of the "reliability", and none of it was cheap.
My V90 volvo predictably falls between he german cars I have owned in the past and my 9/740's in terms of ownership cost (discounting first 4 yrs depreciation, which the lessee payed, ouch).
The problem with parts is real, stick with expensive Volvo OEM whenever possible.
You buy a used car, and you take your chances. No regrets from me on my choice.
The problem I face is what to replace the V with when its too old (in my book) to call the family car. Looks like an MB E350 may be next.. Most of which seem to have this bloody 4matic BS.
Wish us Yanks still made a real RWD wagon..
Westchester County NY
98 V90
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