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Distributor Shaft end Play way more after rebuild than before-- Problem? 700 1990

posted by  Steve Hogan on  Thu Feb 28 06:38 CST 2008
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last visit: Mon Sep 29 08:09 CST 2008
[RELATED]

The distributor re-seal job on my B230F engine has turned into a giant pain. Even with appropriate tooling, driving out the dowel pin holding the dog to to the shaft was really difficult. I removed all the varnish, installed the Honda shaft seal, kept all the metal and fiber shims in the correct order, and reassembled the distributor using the old dowel pin. After assembly the dog was not moving freely from side to side, but was extremely tight and could only be moved left and right accompanied by a clicking sound.

I removed the dowel pin and measured it to find out that the ends were mushroomed out about 0.001" -- enough to make for real trouble. It turns out that the dowel pin diameter is 0.1562 -- 5/32" which is a standard US diameter for dowel pins. The length, however was non-standard, so I cut down a 5/32" x 1" pin and drove it back in. The dog now slides back and forth smoothly like it is supposed to do as it finds the center of the camshaft.

There seems to be, however, significantly more end play now than I had before. I am measuring about 0.012" - 0.015" clearance with a feeler gauge between the dog and the first metal shim it rides on. The dog pivots freely on the dowel to the extent that the clearance between it and the first shim allows. My recollection is that the dog was quite tightly pressed against the shims before I disassembled it, and it was also quite tight on the first reassembly with the messed up dowel pin.

I did not leave any shims out. As far as I can tell, the dog must be in exactly the same place as it was before and the pressed on shaft collar on the rotor side hasn't moved.

This leaves me with only two explanations for the extra clearance.
1. This is the original clearance before the varnish and gunk took up the extra space.
2. The oilite bearing pressed into the aluminum distributor base moved towards the rotor side during the disassembly or assembly.

I am loath to disassemble this thing once again, but 0.015" is IMHO a lot of end play. I could get some thicker shims or check the status of the oilite bearing. It must have not been in very tight if it moved, bccause I put no direct pressure on it.

Is there an end-play specification for the distributor shaft?

I have only my own distributor so I don't know what's normal.








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    Distributor Shaft end Play way more after rebuild than before-- Problem? 700 1990

    uid 55's pic
    posted by  john sargent on  Wed Mar 5 16:09 CST 2008
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    last visit: Wed Oct 22 09:07 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    The Volvo shop manual gives no spec for end play. They must assume you'll be re-assembling the distributor just as you disassembled it. You probably had one of the fiber washers fracture and drop out the the assembly along the way. Volvo does not sell new fiber washers, but I have some from old distributors, and some from a local hardware store. I can't give you a figure, but I probably shim the end play from 0.000" to 0.008".

    Once the distributor is installed, the shaft tip o-ring provides enough friction in the cam socket to prevent end-play. Your distributor does not have Hall effect, and the only thing end play will give you is more or less clearance between the rotor and the cap. I've overhauled many distributors, and I generally don't install new shaft tip o-rings unless the old one has been damaged. They only provide friction in the socket of the cam. They cannot leak any oil because there is not where for the oil to go.

    Volvo calls for a new pin to be installed every time the distributor is apart. I've never gotten a new pin, but I've dressed a few.
    --
    john








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      Distributor Shaft end Play way more after rebuild than before-- Problem? 700 1990

      posted by  Steve Hogan on  Thu Mar 6 10:57 CST 2008
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      last visit: Mon Sep 29 08:09 CST 2008
      [RELATED]

      John,
      Thanks for your input as resident brickboard distributor expert.

      Having carefully read the warnings re: the potential fragility and lack of availability of the fiber washers, I was extraordinarily careful not to damage or lose any of them when I took it apart.
      I did have to flatten the toothed washer that covers the seal after extracting it. I also noted that there were a couple of high spots on the drive dog face that rubs against one of the metal shims. The high spots appeared to be caused by dog deformation during the first pin removal, and I noticed the telltale shine on them when I took it apart the second time. I used 800 grit wet sandpaper on a granite surface plate to polish off the spots, but I couldn't have removed more than 0.001 at the very most --- I quit when the high spots were brought down to the level of the rest of the face.

      I decided to bite the bullet and press out the pin again to figure this all out, since I am just not comfortable with that much slop.
      The oilite bearing is still higher than the surrounding aluminum baseplate, so the bearing did not move therefore has nothing to do with my perceived increase in clearance.

      I measured all the shims and washers (except the toothed plate which I am not going to take apart again to figure out what's going on.

      To review my assembly from rotor side to dog:

      1. Rotor shaft with pressed on collar
      2. steel shim 0.495"(12.6mm)ID x 0.976"(24.8mm)x 0.0197"(0.5mm)
      3. fiber washer 0.500"(12.7mm)ID x 0.935"(23.75mm)x 0.0293"(0.75mm)
      4. toothed washer
      5. distributor base casting with pressed in-oilite bearing
      6. steel shim 0.495"(12.6mm)ID x 0.976"(24.8mm)x 0.0075"(0.19mm)
      7. fiber washer 0.500"(12.7mm)ID x 0.935"(23.75mm)x 0.0293"(0.75mm)
      8. steel shim 0.495"(12.6mm)ID x 0.976"(24.8mm)x 0.0197"(0.5mm)
      9. drive dog

      I noted that the steel shims #2 and #8 are identical.
      It appears that the fiber washers #3 and #7 were originally identical. They appear to be somewhat worn in that they are a bit egg shaped on the OD and the thickness measures differently around the washer due to varying amounts of wear over the face of the washer. You can see that the depth of the dimples varies as well.

      It appears to me that the thin shim (#6) may have been the originally selected shim to adjust shaft end play. If I use the same worn fiber washers, I could replace that shim with a thicker one and take up the extra clearance.
      If I substitute another 0.0197" thick metal shim for the 0.0075" shim, I will remove about 0.012" clearance and that would be about right.
      Alternatively, if I can locate a source for new unworn fiber washers, that will take up some clearance as well.

      SH







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        Distributor Shaft end Play way more after rebuild than before-- Problem? 700 1990

        posted by  Steve Hogan on  Mon Mar 10 06:29 CST 2008
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        last visit: Mon Sep 29 08:09 CST 2008
        [RELATED]

        It turns out that one can purchase the drive pin from Volvo - PN 1389935.

        Volvo also sells a (relatively)low-cost distributor repair kit which appears to contain some washers including the toothed cover plate and at least one shim.
        One cannot tell much from the Volvo parts pictures. I ordered one and will let you know what parts it contains and how it works. Since it is nearly impossible to satisfactorily flatten the toothed seal cover washer after prying it out, a new one would be a great help in maintaining a smooth, flat bearing surface for the outside phenolic washer to prevent accelerated wear after re-assembly.

        The kit is PN 3501194 and is under $8 from Tasca Volvo. The pin was $1.22 which is a lot less than I spent to buy a whole box of 5/32" x 1" dowel pins (screwy size not generally available from even good hardware stores) that I still had to cut down to use. Based on the difficulty in removing the pin without deforming it enough to cause problems on reassembly, I would certainly recommend having a new one (or two) in hand before you re-seal your distributor.







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          Distributor Shaft end Play way more after rebuild than before-- Problem? 700 1990

          posted by  someone claiming to be Looser on  Thu Mar 13 18:19 CST 2008 [RELATED]

          You are a better man than me.After trying myself and then 2 machine shops later all unable to remove the pin I gave in and spent the 90 bucks on a snap replacement.






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