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92 740 Wagon - B230F - No start - Help ? 700 1992

posted by  NavalGunner1125 on  Wed Jan 30 03:34 CST 2008
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last visit: Mon May 19 15:30 CST 2014
[RELATED]

'92 740 Wagon, think it is a Regina (one pump in the tank).

Have good spark !

Plenty of Fuel at the rail, it sprays out like mad when the valve on the rail is open. I assume there is plenty of fuel pressure.

Air is not restricted, took off the hose to the
Air cleaner and cranker it over. Not much suction (vacuum).

Timing belt is good and has been inspected - all in good shape.

Engine doesn't "fire" when trying to start

WTF ?

CJ

--
'92 740 B230F Wagon::'92 B230F 240::'86 B230FT Wagon (RIP-Parts Car):'83 320I::'79 320I::'81 320I::'74 2002::'70 Torino GT Convertible(351C)::1970 Dodge Dart GT 340::'70 Monte Carlo::1979 Dodge Tradesman B300 Custom(360)::'84 SAAB 900S::2004 Dodge Dakota








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    92 740 Wagon - B230F - No start - Help ? 700 1992

    uid 40935's pic
    posted by  Goatman on  Wed Jan 30 04:55 CST 2008
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    last visit: Sat Jul 26 20:30 CST 2014
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    Hello C,

    I want you to get it and spray it. Spray it in there good!!! Once you spray it, you ought to be able to say it:
    Now its in there, just like it should!!!

    I think that although you did a dirty check for fuel pressure, there might not be any in the cylinders. If you spray starting fluid into the airbox, the engine might start. And if it does, you know that your problem is in the Electro-Injectorizer System.

    I would start with the spray first to make sure you aren't chasing the wrong goose.

    Good Luck!!!








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      92 740 Wagon - B230F - No start - Help ? 700 1992

      posted by  NavalGunner1125 on  Wed Jan 30 13:12 CST 2008
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      last visit: Mon May 19 15:30 CST 2014
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      I sprayed the piss out of the intake with Starting Fluid and not so much as a burp. Spark is good though, I just rechecked it.

      Think it might have soaked the plugs due to too much fuel (flood condition) ?

      I have not pulled a plug to check the fuel situation yet. I would have thought the Starting Fluid would have at least caused it to fire when cranking over & good spark regardless of the condition of the plugs.

      CJFS - Now what ?

      regards....
      --
      '92 740 B230F Wagon::'92 B230F 240::'86 B230FT Wagon (RIP-Parts Car):'83 320I::'79 320I::'81 320I::'74 2002::'70 Torino GT Convertible(351C)::1970 Dodge Dart GT 340::'70 Monte Carlo::1979 Dodge Tradesman B300 Custom(360)::'84 SAAB 900S::2004 Dodge Dakota








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        92 740 Wagon - B230F - No start - Help ? 700 1992

        uid 40935's pic
        posted by  Goatman on  Wed Jan 30 13:24 CST 2008
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        last visit: Sat Jul 26 20:30 CST 2014
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        Hi,

        It would have certainly fired if everything was good but the fuel system. You might try cranking for ten seconds and ten seconds more, and I'm sure you have. It might have flooded, and airing out the cylinder head by removing the plugs and cranking should clear the chambers. You should also hear the Phoosh of the compression stroke. Make sure that the valvetrain is operating while cranking.

        Since it doesn't fire with fluid and you have a spark, you ought to check the compression if the above fails. A compression check will quickly reveal if the timing belt has slipped as the numbers will be low.

        Good Luck!!!








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    92 740 Wagon - B230F - No start - Help ? 700 1992

    posted by  someone claiming to be fixit2003 on  Wed Jan 30 04:49 CST 2008 [RELATED]

    Does the air suction improve when cranking if you open the throttle plate? If so then the IAC may not be working. With the throttle closed that's the only way the engine gets any air. Have you actually look down through the oil filler hole to verify the camm's spinning?








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    92 740 Wagon - B230F - No start - Help ? 700 1992

    posted by  Chris Mullet on  Wed Jan 30 04:30 CST 2008
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    last visit: Fri Oct 24 09:08 CST 2014
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    CJFS,

    It's been a while....(Are you still putting dead deers in the neighbor's car?)

    OK, so you've got spark, you've got fuel pressure at the rail, and you've got air. Like Bruce said, if the plugs are dry then the next logical place to turn is to the Radio Suppression Relay (which supplies power to the injectors). If you have an aux fan relay mounted beside it, try swapping the wire leads. If the RSR doesn't have a neighboring relay, you can disconnect it and jump a wire from the battery (+) to the green/red (which sends power directly to the injectors). If the engine then starts, you've found the problem. Don't leave the jumper wire connected this way a long time as it might drain the battery.







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    92 740 Wagon - B230F - No start - Help ? 700 1992

    uid 18083's pic
    posted by  lucid on  Wed Jan 30 03:59 CST 2008
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    last visit: Fri Oct 24 12:31 CST 2014
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    "Plenty of Fuel at the rail, it sprays out like mad when the valve on the rail is open. I assume there is plenty of fuel pressure."

    That can fuel at the rail can be misleading, and the result of the automatic pump "buzz" when the key goes to or thru position II. It doesn't mean you have normal pump operation. Or even if the pump runs, that the injector voltage is getting thru the Radio Suppression relay.

    Are the plugs getting wet? I'd suspect not. If you have "good spark" and fuel gets to cylinders, there would be some action.

    Do you hear the Fuel relay click the 2nd time as you crank?
    I sure wish you had your relay where mine is (shameless show-off pic below).


    Fuel Relay
    --
    Bruce Young
    '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.








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      '92 740 Wagon - B230F - No start - Help ? 700 1992

      posted by  NavalGunner1125 on  Wed Jan 30 04:18 CST 2008
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      last visit: Mon May 19 15:30 CST 2014
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      Bruce,
      I think the fuel pressure is really good at - I opened the valve while the engine was turning over (being cranked) - there was a ton of fuel at the rail.

      I had replaced the fuel pump about 7 months ago so I am confident the fuel pump is doing its' job.

      The RSR may be another story though as well/or the signal from the ECT to the ECU for variable negative temperature coefficient variable resistance ( what I would call a thermistor) supplied tot he ECU by the ECT.

      I just went out and pulled off the - Battery lead - will let it sit for 15 minutes then go and try it again.

      What do you think ?

      --
      '92 740 B230F Wagon::'92 B230F 240::'86 B230FT Wagon (RIP-Parts Car):'83 320I::'79 320I::'81 320I::'74 2002::'70 Torino GT Convertible(351C)::1970 Dodge Dart GT 340::'70 Monte Carlo::1979 Dodge Tradesman B300 Custom(360)::'84 SAAB 900S::2004 Dodge Dakota








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        Repeat: Are the plugs getting wet? (NMI) 700 1992

        uid 18083's pic
        posted by  lucid on  Wed Jan 30 04:59 CST 2008
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        last visit: Fri Oct 24 12:31 CST 2014
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          Read This when you get a chance..... 700 1992

          posted by  NavalGunner1125 on  Sat Feb 2 11:55 CST 2008
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          last visit: Mon May 19 15:30 CST 2014
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          I went out to the car on Friday morning and the damn thing started right up ! I drove to work and then home (Friday night).

          Got up Saturday morning about 8, went out and it wouldn't start !
          WTF Right ?

          Cranked it over, pulled out Fuse #1 and the car started firing (it died of course but, it did fire up....)

          Got it running finally just by pulling Fuse #1 and then reinserting the fuse until it seemd like I had burnt off all of the excess fuel (flooded condition ?) and then it ran after cranking it over and over until it started with Fuse 1 inserted.

          Drove it through town and it seemed to make alot of valve train noise like the timing was way off. It pinged REALLY bad then almost studdered through town here in Norwich, VT Like it was running but missing - sort of a soft pedal when accelerating.

          Took it down the interstate 89 to Lebanon and the thing died when I got off the exit. WTF Right ?

          Came back about 2 hours later and turned the key and it fired right up and ran like a champ all the way back home. Not a glitch or hiccup the whole way home.

          I am now ready for a straight jacket or a lot of good advice - have you guys seen this shieeet before ?

          Kenny ? Bruce ? Chris ? Goatman ? Dick Cheney ? Anyone who dares to listen ?

          CJFS - soon to be spending spare time in a rubber room.....


          --
          '92 740 B230F Wagon::'92 B230F 240::'86 B230FT Wagon (RIP-Parts Car):'83 320I::'79 320I::'81 320I::'74 2002::'70 Torino GT Convertible(351C)::1970 Dodge Dart GT 340::'70 Monte Carlo::1979 Dodge Tradesman B300 Custom(360)::'84 SAAB 900S::2004 Dodge Dakota








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          Repeat: Are the plugs getting wet? (NMI) 700 1992

          posted by  NavalGunner1125 on  Wed Jan 30 13:24 CST 2008
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          last visit: Mon May 19 15:30 CST 2014
          [RELATED]

          Second Click heard from F1 Relay when Ignition turned while cranking, sounds good to me.

          Spark to the end of the plug wires are good, looks like a healthy yellowish orange spark.

          CJ

          --
          '92 740 B230F Wagon::'92 B230F 240::'86 B230FT Wagon (RIP-Parts Car):'83 320I::'79 320I::'81 320I::'74 2002::'70 Torino GT Convertible(351C)::1970 Dodge Dart GT 340::'70 Monte Carlo::1979 Dodge Tradesman B300 Custom(360)::'84 SAAB 900S::2004 Dodge Dakota








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          Will resume on Thursday - 700 1992

          posted by  NavalGunner1125 on  Wed Jan 30 12:18 CST 2008
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          last visit: Mon May 19 15:30 CST 2014
          [RELATED]

          It is freezing cold outside and no light. Reminds me of the winter nights back in Edmonchuk, eh ?

          Will pull a plug to see if I am getting fuel to the plugs when I see daylight again.

          This sucks but, thank you for your assistance, I will post back after I pull a plug to check for fuel.

          Until then, keep your stick on the ice........I'll be out on the shinny

          CJFS
          --
          '92 740 B230F Wagon::'92 B230F 240::'86 B230FT Wagon (RIP-Parts Car):'83 320I::'79 320I::'81 320I::'74 2002::'70 Torino GT Convertible(351C)::1970 Dodge Dart GT 340::'70 Monte Carlo::1979 Dodge Tradesman B300 Custom(360)::'84 SAAB 900S::2004 Dodge Dakota








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    92 740 Wagon - B230F - No start - Help ? 700 1992

    posted by  NavalGunner1125 on  Wed Jan 30 03:39 CST 2008
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    last visit: Mon May 19 15:30 CST 2014
    [RELATED]

    Maybe flooded for some odd reason ?
    --
    '92 740 B230F Wagon::'92 B230F 240::'86 B230FT Wagon (RIP-Parts Car):'83 320I::'79 320I::'81 320I::'74 2002::'70 Torino GT Convertible(351C)::1970 Dodge Dart GT 340::'70 Monte Carlo::1979 Dodge Tradesman B300 Custom(360)::'84 SAAB 900S::2004 Dodge Dakota







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