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I am having a heck of a time trying to get the strut gland nut off. From the posts I have read, it looks like heat and a hammer/pipe wrench are the way to go. This seems like it would be very difficult to do on the car? I was hoping to avoid opening up the brake lines. If I do need to remove the strut, how should I do it? Undo the bolts holding the ball joint to the control arm and take it out with the ball joint? I was planning on replacing the ball joints anyways.
Thanks,
Kevin
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Recently did this on a friends 244 .... passenger side no big deal ...Dr. side another story .... had spring compressed and access to nut .... impact hammer made scrap metal out of the nut .... left enough to put pipe wrench on it.Also a good amount of PB blaster ... 2 ft pipe wrench with a 4 ft handle extension got it to move ... once the nut started didn't take much to get it the rest of the way out. Take time to make sure the tube the strut goes into is cleaned of any rust or other material ... and wire brush the threads on the inside of the tube ...make sure the new nut has all the opportunity to go home that it can have.
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Get the pressure off the nut. If you're working in there, surely you have the car jacked up and the tire removed. Use a wood block or something and jack up the control arm near the ball joint.
Put some weight on the strut by lifting it a little - with the suspension dropped down and the spring pressing on it at full extension, the threads are under a lot of side loading. This helps lock the nut in place. All you need to do is compress the suspension a little bit and it'll take a lot of that load off the nut.
I use a small pipe wrench sometimes and also a hammer and drift (or blunt chisel) method. It does chew up the nut sometimes. New Bilsteins come with a new gland nut, don't know for sure about other brands.
Note that removing this means you're dealing with spring pressure, so I hope you have spring compressors at your disposal.
--
::: Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: 92 244 ::: 90 745GL ::: 90 745T ::: 84 242DL ::: 90 745T Parts ::: Used to have : 86 244DL, 87 244DL, 91 244, 88 244GL, 88 744GLE, 82 245T, 86 244DL, 87 244DL, 88 245DL, 89 244DL!
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thanks for the advice. i will try that on the other side. i ended up taking the spring off the first side as i figured i would have to remove the whole thing and do it on a bench. at this point, what do you think would be the best path to follow: put the spring back on and try the method you mentioned, and then take the spring off again and continue, or just remove the whole strut, opening up the brake system? i've read that its not the easiest thing in the world to get the brake lines bled again. i'm not sure i understand why its so difficult, but it seems to be a common complaint.
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i saw this in an earlier post you made and actually went to HF looking for it yesterday, but they didn't seem to have it. is it generally a mail order only item? will the wrench handle enough torque to get the gland nut off?
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Hi Kevin,
The item I purchased was #41243, from the invoice. I did get it mail order at the time - this was before the HF people began opening retail stores all over the US.
I just searched their site without success. It looks like they've discontinued the item. Doing a search for "hook spanner" gets me at least one from Sears but the price is out of my league. I guess I had better stop posting that picture, now that the Chinese version is so elusive. Sorry!
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said.
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Try a bicycle shop if you are otherwise unable to find this wrench. The lock ring for the bottom bracket (crank axle bearing) is often made with the same type of notches as the strut gland nut, and is almost exactly the same diameter. However, if you didn't like the Sears price, you probably won't like the bike shop price either.
Be careful when using this tool--it tends to slip off to the side.
DO NOT attempt to loosen the gland nut if the spring is installed on the strut. Theoretically this is safe to do if you have spring compressors in place but there is a risk of dislodging them while trying to loosen the nut with a wrench sticking through in between the coils of the spring. Be safe--use the spring compressors to remove the spring, then try the gland nut.
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Hi there,
Thanks for pointing out where else I'd seen those notched nuts. That Chinese spanner set I bought had four different sizes including a pin spanner - all for $10. I've only used the one shown, for the purpose shown, used it a number of times, expecting to find the flaw that made them so inexpensive, but it continues to survive my torture unscathed.
Now I realize you weren't really addressing me, but I always like to hear the reason behind "Do this" and "Don't do that" instruction. Usually it is printed on instruction sheets to improve the company's defense in tort cases, and I'm forced to use my imagination.
But, in this case I stand a chance of being able to query the instructor: Why do you say DO NOT attempt to loosen the gland nut if the spring is installed on the strut? Now, I do understand why you wouldn't want to do this with a spring compressor fitted - lest you might dislodge it, as you point out. But why not loosen the gland nut (not remove it!) with the springs in place?
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Children in the back seats of cars cause accidents, but accidents in the back seats of cars cause children.
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On a vehicle this old (14 years minimum---could be as much as 32 if we're talking about 240s in general) there is no way to be sure of the condition of the threads inside the strut tube. They could be partially stripped (from a previous change of strut inserts), weakened by rust, or whatever. The spring is under considerable tension, held in place by two things: the big nut on the end of the shaft, and the gland nut. If either one is released suddenly, the spring can fly off with explosive force. If the threads are damaged, this could happen, without warning, at any time after the nut is broken loose. Not likely, but possible, and considering the consequences, not a risk worth taking.
I have never seen exactly this happen, but I have experienced a "sudden failure of threads" that could have had catastrophic results. It was on a 140 I once owned. I was raising the car with the screw post jack that it came with. Just as the tire was leaving the ground, the threads gave way inside the knuckle that runs up and down on the threaded rod of the jack (note that this is a vertical post jack, not the scissor type that comes with a 240) The car dropped suddenly, hard enough to almost bottom out the suspension. Luckily, I had not yet removed the wheel, or there would have been damage to the backing plate and possibly the rotor as well, and if any part of one's body had been underneath the car at the time...... It was also lucky that I was at home, preparing to do some kind of maintenance task, rather than on the side of the road with a flat tire, in which case I would have had no way to raise the car to put the spare on. I went and got another jack, and finished what I was doing, having learned an important lesson: Be aware of what might happen if something fails suddenly, and stay out of the way in case it does. To me, a compressed coil spring is a perfect example of this, and should be treated with the same respect due a loaded gun. I have done ball joints and bushings on several kinds of cars, (140, 240, 740, Mercedes, Fiat, Alfa) and struts on my 740, so I am speaking from experience on this one.
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Hi again,
You are right, I was thinking of at least 140s and 240s in general, certainly all ages and conditions when reading your admonition. I read your reasoning to explain the risk with much interest, as you went on to touch upon an experience we share, with that screw post jack supplied to change a flat or two.
My question about your advice to not loosen the gland nut while the spring is compressed came not because I've done it, but because I've read several other recommendations to do just that, and considered it. The idea to loosen it while on the car seems appealing because the steering lock can be used as a counterhold against that initial force needed to unfreeze the nut, which seems more elegant, than me holding the strut tube in place against the floor with one foot, while cracking the nut.
As it happens, I've shied away from trying that for another reason, having nothing to do with the spring. Because I'm a proponent of using impact over brute force when it comes to unsticking a fastener, I'd rather do this out of the car than allow the impact to be transmitted through the rack and steering u-joint to the ignition lock. So, whether doing struts completely out of the car or just hanging out of the fender opening, I've released the springs before removing the gland nut.
Loosening the gland nut on the car with the spring compressed looks quite safe if the strut is not completely extended. With the tire in place and on the ground, the car is lifted at the jacking point while observing the strut extension, which stops just before the tire lifts. Lower it some, just enough to compress the strut, and the gland nut is accessible. Not so accessible as it would be with the wheel removed, so an alternative would be using a suitable support under the steering knuckle or control arm in place of the mounted wheel.
Now, the scary part. Before it happened to me, I was aware it could. My first experience with a "knuckle" riding a jackscrew came from my bench vise of Chinese manufacture, which had seen 20 years of service. It grenaded quite dramatically when the internal threads of that knuckle became worn to the breaking point. Now I treat its replacement better, lubrication wise.
I, too, had a car corner up on a Volvo post jack, only to come down a lot faster than if wound down. To the jack's credit, though it got greased, it had done hard service, not as a tire changer, but as a lifter for every reason before setting in jackstands. Nice jack to use in the gravel. The scissors jack is no less vulnerable.
OK, that's not scary. What is, are those screw type spring compressors. Same technology. Same uninspectible internal "knuckle" threads. Same type of wear created by using the thread to transmit the force. I make religion of cleaning and lubing the threads on my 30 year old set, after each job. But while running those up, I'm hyper vigilant. I use a set of three and keep them very close to each other in length (small increments) to minimize the damage should one of the three let loose.
I agree, there certainly is a possibility a defect in the strut tube or its threads could give way when I whack the end of the gland nut wrench. I'm usually more worried about rusty spring cups.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint. - Mark Twain
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First thing I do before removing front shocks is raise it up a bit and knock loose the gland nut about one flat. I figured its a bit easier to turn with the car not yet hanging on the cartridge. Next thing is hit the top nut with the air wrench maybe half to one turn. You ought to buy a new spring compressor BEFORE that old one explodes on you.
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-K (hope springs eternal)
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Hi Kyle,
I was looking for replacement spring compressors. Actually, I bought a set when in the HF store not too long ago, but they don't impress me so far. Not enough to use them yet. I was considering a hydraulic clamshell type, basically using safety as a financial justification. What do you use? Any recommendation?
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Don't worry about avoiding temptation... as you grow older, it will avoid you. - Winston Churchill
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Mine is a two-sided screw type, K-D Tools 3387, about $50 at Sears if I recall. I'm not sure that it is exceptional or worthy of recommendation, but it doesn't have 30 years of wear.
--
-K (hope springs eternal)
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Hi Art,
I don't know anything about the hydraulic clamshell type, but the Sears set of regular compressors I bought looks well made and strong. It's the same set IPD sells as far as I can tell, but quite a bit cheaper. Mine were $40 a couple years ago.
--
Thanks for all the help. DougC 1981 242, Turbo bars and wheels, M46 ----------- 1993 245, B230 NA L-Block, M46, Turbo bars.
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For the nut itself, I bought a deep offset closed end wrench at Harbor Freight and ground it down until it would go clear down on the nut.
On my '90, one of nuts came right off, On the other, the self-locking part of the nut failed and the nut took all the threads off the stem as it came off. It was a nightmare. I used a vice grip on the shock stem, through the spring.
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GLAND nut. I should learn to read.
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If you are replacing the ball joints, I'd take the strut assembly off the car by releasing the three large nuts that hold the ball joint to the a-arm. Then you'll be able to put PB Blaster on the four little bolts that hold the ball joint to the bottom of the strut tube. You don't want to break any of those off when trying to loosen them.
You can try loosening the gland nut on the car by reaching through the spring with a special wrench or a pipe wrench if it will fit. You probably already tried this. Also, if you have an air hammer/chisel, careful application might loosen it. On my wife's 245, the driver's side gland nut would not come loose until I took the whole assembly out of the car, removed the spring, etc., laid it on a piece of plywood in the street, got two guys to help, and used pipe wrenches with cheater pipe extensions on them. I could see the strut tube itself flexing. By that point I also had a stuck ball joint bolt broken off in the bottom that was going to be a job to get out, so I got a strut tube from another Volvo guy that had no corrosion and no broken bolt in the bottom and used that. Scope creep. Luckily I didn't need the car as a daily driver and had time to work though the complications. I hope you can get yours loose.
Don't forget to get it aligned when done.
--
Thanks for all the help. DougC 1981 242, Turbo bars and wheels, M46 ----------- 1993 245, B230 NA L-Block, M46, Turbo bars.
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My 2 cents
Although I have replaced stuts only once but that gland nut did not create an issue. I loosened the nut when the strut was on the car it self. I was able to put a pipe wrench on it through the sping coils. I also tried with a flat end long screw driver and hammer .It does damage the nut little bit but not so much that you can not reuse it .It did help somewhat
Regards
Gopesh
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IPD has the tool for $25....I just ordered. I used channel locks and a pipe wrench last time. Sloppy. Also, for holding the tube steady, Irwin has a Vice-Grip pliers with a chain that wraps around...very handy for lots of things.
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