Hello,

Thought I might also ask this here as ther seems to be more 200-series racers than 900-series.

I have acquired a tired, mistreated 1991 944T--though at the moment, it's actually a 923T, as I have 0 compression in 2 cylinders and one rear door that isn't working. Poor thing has lived a hard life, and I want to help it go out of this world in style.

My intent is to run it in a not-so-serious race (see link below) or two before I remove the usable parts for recycling and send the rest to the big Volvo lot in the sky. Headgasket and other repairs start this weekend.

Couple questions for this august group:

Anyone have any experience running a B230FT in a racing situation where water was the only permissible coolant?

Any thoughts on how to make this fine but abused vehicle run any cooler given the water-only restriction?

This vehicle has the tow package, with the large tranny cooler in front of the intercooler and an auxilliary fan in front of it. Would you remove that tranny cooler to improve airflow over the engine and route the tranny fluid through the normal radiator cooler? Or leave it in place?

I'm open to other suggestions as well. Yes, I know I'm crazy, but there's a method to this madness, the details of which will be shared as soon as the website for this project is up and running.

Thanks,
Matt

Link to the not-so-serious race: www.24hoursoflemons.com (Yes, you read about it in Car and Driver...)

Matt, I am right over the Golden Gate out at the beach,
I would like to help prep the car,and have some experience
a fabricating stainless belly pan and air pickup for my
previous 245. It looks like a rough bunch of cars,
maybe on second thought an inverted car tire
spoiler.If needed I can borrow a car trailer and
2500 Diesel Chev PU to get to the race.
It Sounds like a worthy endevor.
Sorry to hear about your loss
My condolences,
Ken
--
69-145-S ; 71-145-S ; 72-145-E ; 72-1800-ES ; 87-245-DL

Undiluted (straight) water is actually the best heat transfer fluid (the addition of antifreeze actually lessens this attribute) ....

...for a brief stint during a race, that is,...

...and assuming that the cooling system is up to snuff in it's function (radiator and engine passages not clogged or full of scale, water pump working right, thermostat opening properly, etc.), so that the temperature won't rise to that level where the boiling suppression effect of antifreeze is needed. A low temperature thermostat, so that it opens early and maximizes flow through the radiator at lower temperatures is a good idea, even though engines are somewhat more efficient at higher operating temperatures -- a tradeoff.

If the car isn't as assumed above, you need to invest in some R/R of cooling system components before you run straight water [and, by straight water, I mean ordinary, potable water without additives, but I do NOT mean distilled water which, without additives, is more corrosive (reactive) than ordinary water; although usually, a normal cooling system is so full of crap that it sufficiently depresses this reactivity].

And the catch (isn't there always one?) is that it's awful for long-term care/maintenance -- corrosion being a serious matter. Be sure to refill with a proper (50:50) antifreeze mixture righ after the race.

Thanks, Ken. I'm learning a lot about cooling that I haven't picked up so far in 25 years of shadetree mechanic work. Prestone has become one of those things that a car wouldn't run without...but hey, every day is a school day.

Cheers,
Matt

Can you build a big front air-pickup and air dam?
Or stack 2 front spoilers.
Remember to duct the brakes.
Possibly re-route the heater circuit to an upfront radiator,
a twist on Jorrells aux-rad?
Sounds like fun.
--
69-145-S ; 71-145-S ; 72-145-E ; 72-1800-ES ; 87-245-DL

Wait a minute! Entry costs $500 per car and $100 per driver and another $50 for some other BS. That means by the time you have bought and built a car for $500 (not including safety equipment), lets say another $500, not to mention fire suits and so on... this is a LOSING proposition! You are required to at least have four drivers ($400), $500 car entry fee, $50 for another fee, and $500 for the car, holy crap, that's $1450 right there!

Then they can "decide at will" to crush your car for the heck of it! This isn't a "race", it's a serious money maker for the organizers!

If you decide to do it, lay back a bit in the first half... maybe they won't nail you with BSF points or think that you aren't cheating. After that, let it hang out and hope it holds together.

jorrell
--
92 245 245K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently in pieces

Thanks--those are some great ideas.

Yeah, it's not going to make any money, and it's going to cost us all a bit. But in the long run it's more about bringing some people together to have some vehicular fun with a car I know I can work on, that was cheap to acquire, and that is generally safer than most other cars we could run. That said, I'm also working to get sponsorship to cover as much of this as I can, so it may not cost quite so much out of pocket.

In a bigger sense, though, this whole thing is a tribute to my brother. We shared a lot, including an appreciation for Volvos and for solid vehicles in general. He taught me how to drive, introduced me to racing and turned me into a fan, and he was an amazing driver in his own right. He did a little racing and was pretty damn good. He had a great sense of humor and would have loved the whole tongue-in-cheek nature of this race, and he would have been right there in the thick of it with me if he were still here.

He died last October after a battle with colon cancer. He was 52 and left behind a wife and two kids. So, this car is being fielded in his memory. A lot of his old buddies, as well as the family, are getting involved in this. His 19-year-old son is getting into this, and my sister in law (his widow) is foursquare behind it. So yeah, it'll cost a bit, but Paul would have loved it, and that's worth something. I guess a psychologist would call this part of my grief process, and maybe it is, but whatever it is, it seems like a good thing to do in his honor.

Thanks again for the suggestions--I knew I could count on Brickboarders to come up with some great ones.

Cheers,
Matt

Hi Matt,
My condolence to you and your family on the loss of your brother. Cancer is a horrible disease that i also have firsthand knowledge of. Hopefully someday there will be a cure.




Dan

Dan,

Thank you. Cancer just plain sucks, and I'm sorry it has touched your life as well. Part of my purpose for doing this is to raise awareness of the type of cancer that took my brother (colorectal) which is truly a silent killer.

Best,
Matt

Matt:

My sympathies about your Brother, you are truly on a noble track to commemorate his life. Please enjoy it as I know he will as he watches your efforts! You are correct, Volvo cars are incredibly safe and probably the best choice in this particular race... especially with a B230FT!

My commitment to Volvo is due to the fact that my Wife survived a all but fatal accident in a 240, I have built, from the ground up a 90 244 and restomodded 92 245 as a result. It took her six months to fully recover from a broken neck, despite a 2 to 3 percent survival rate for that injury. I love my Wife very much, and I thank the Lord and Volvo for her recovery and survival!

If you need parts, advice, or a spare driver, please let me know, I'll pay my own way. I'm not afraid to offer my services as a non-driving mechanic as well. If you need a B230F head (yes, you'll have to replace the exhaust valves), I have one, free of charge. Sorry, my Garrett T3 stock is depleted... make sure you check shaft play on the turbine shaft. One turbine impact with the housing will destroy your efforts and engine.

My thoughts and prayers, as I'm sure the rest of the brickboard is, are behind you! I'm sure the Board will do what they can to help!

God Bless,

jorrell
--
92 245 245K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently in pieces

Jorell,

Thank you for your kindness, generosity, and advice. I am sincerely touched.

I'll definitely keep you posted as things progress with the car and team. If you want to be a part of it from far off North Carolina I would be honored to have you.

I'm glad to know that our common choice of vehicle has kept a loved one from greater harm. Sure, a car is a bunch of metal and plastic and rubber, but these cars seem to be something more.

Best,
Matt

Off and on I have run B230F engines in road course environments with an AW-70 auto behind it. Trust me, you will need to keep the trans cooler if you want to finish the race. The 2xx and 9xx radiators are fine, don't know if a 240 Diesel radiator will fit in a 9xx. They are a little longer.

On to "water only" coolant... hogwash, run a bottle of water wetter, at least it will lube the seals and lower the boiling point slightly. This is okay to use at drag strips and VIR, so it shouldn't be an issue.

There is another often overlooked way to cool an engine... through its oil. Add a remote oil filter mount system and splice in an oil cooler, IN FRONT OF the rad and the trans cooler.

One last trick, if you have the physical stamina, block off all but one of the interior vents, set the heater to full, crank the fan on max, and pipe the remaining vent out a hole in the door. Yes, the heater core is a mini radiator believe it or not!

Finally, wire that aux fan to run any time the car is running, if you can, also lose the AC condenser and compressor, fair amount of weight.

In general lose the weight, hauling it around generates heat in the engine!

jorrell

Good luck!
--
92 245 245K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently in pieces

I just read the rules, sounds like an interesting race. Water wetter is specifically prohibited in the rules, unfortunately.

Your ideas about other methods of cooling are clever. I especially like the idea of venting the heater blower to the outside.

Dropping weight by stripping out the AC is exactly what I'd do. Since one of the rules of the race is that the organizers can buy any car they want for $500 (one car will be selected for the crusher as well), it makes sense to strip *everything* that isn't necessary to make the car run.
--
'92 245 5-speed, '92 944 GL auto

Water alone is a far better coolant than any mixture of anti-freeze and water.
'Course it'll rot the system in short order, but one race won't hurt anything, much.

I'd check the rules again on the water wetter add-the stuff was invented to be used primarly in racing-Nascar uses the stuff and they aren't allowed to use antifreeze-When you check their website they explain just what the product does and how it protects engines from developing hot spots in cylinder heads.
I would use distilled water for cooling-has greater cooling than portable water
Poolman

brickslayer:
In general, I think the race really isn't about running a car you love, or for that matter care the very least for. For that, you may be more inclined towards the Double 500 in Marin, also a Martin Swig event and along the same premise. Instead of destroying the fan's least favorite, it can be donated to a charity.

Those who insist on running a car they love and for that matter trust will spend the money on safety equipment for themselves. As I understand it, it's 500 total to purchase & prepare the car and yourself. In addition to that is an admin fee and a $75 NASCAR registration fee.

I'd look long and hard for a cheap project vehicle that has already been track prepped at some point, has new tires, stripped interior and some safety either inherent in the design or a roll cage installed. Preferably, a car that would otherwise need to be smogged and is cheap because it has no hope of passing.

Personally I'm on the look out for a '76 BMW 2002 or an early Mazda RX7 if I do the race, that meets the above prerequisites. Or an older Volvo if I can piece a good one together for 500, maybe the '66. But, a friend of mine in Palo Alto took his recently-running 1964 Citroen ID19F wagon to participate; his transmission stripped gear teeth at the flag drop.

It ought to really be about trusting a car you're familiar with and want to give, as you say, one last hurrah before retirement. If you're set on running that 900, as other's have mentioned, you're really going to have to re-work the cooling. Brake ducting is a must; and an external oil cooler is a great idea. There are various kits available to modify that. I am wholly unfamiliar with the non-pushrod Volvos but it sounds like you're on the right track.

have a blast, maybe I'll see you there.

-Sean
--
1966 122s, 1970 142s, 1974 142e... Blue is beautiful

Sean,

Thanks for the advice. You're spot-on--this 944T is not a car I love, but rather a car (type) with which I am familiar and trust. My daily driver is also a 940, and it's my third red-block Volvo, so I am comfortable with the mechanical work required to get it running again, as well as with the potential in the car to carry the team through the race. Do I think it's a winner? Probably not, but on any given Sunday...who knows?

As far as the race prep work, it's going to be a learning experience, to be sure, but it's one I'm looking forward to. Safety is *definitely* first with this car, and the roll cage, the harness, seat, brakes, and tires are all going to be done right.

Thanks again for the suggestions. Hope to see you around.

Cheers,
Matt