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So, I found my dream car - a 1993 240 wagon, manual, with sunroof. I've wanted a wagon and a manual since I got my 89 240 automatic sedan. I love my grey ghost (sedan) but was always jealous of wagons, and manual transmissions.
A guy in NJ was selling, and even though it was overpriced, I thought that this car is pretty rare, seemed to be in pretty good shape, and I could love it and it would outlast my already fading 89 (fading due to the ravages of salt – I live in finger lakes region of NY).
So, finally drove down to buy it today (Jan 19) at 10am.
The good – in good shape body wise, seemed to be dealer maintained (expensive, but generally they replace anything that might be failing). Even came with an extra clutch kit (clutch is near dead) and two snow tires (not on rim, just in the “trunk”. I’ve become religious about snow tires – I love studded Hakkalapetas (sp?) because I have only gotten stick once (and only temporarily) with them in the snow, and I believe, in my heart of hearts, that since the tire is though only thing that affixes the car to the road, this is one area where you do not want to skimp.
So, begin drive back through the Poconos. On 380, near mile marker 13, a car, about 6 cars in front of me, fishtails and crashes into the guardrail. Somehow, she managed to flip her car and get it impaled on the guard rail, on its side, so the guard rail pierced the windshield and the (unoccupied) front passenger seat. The skid or accident (honestly, I don’t remember which) causes a cascade effect with everyone slamming on their brakes. Stupid me, I try to be clever, downshift into 4th gear, and tap brakes (figure with ABS, I should be OK, and extra drag from downshift on back wheel should help slow me, since the brakes are front-loaded). Car to my right front begins to seriously fishtail into my lane. I can either hit it with my brand new dream machine, or go left, toward the huge, but steeply banked median divider.
Steer left, lose control. Steer right to regain control. Whew – its ok, just heading in the wrong direction– about to re-enter right lane. Turn left again, avoid hitting car that is now merging into my lane, but the car in front of me is braking faster than I can. Rear end it or try to go left and slow down. Go left. Now too close to impaled car, either I hit it, or go down the slope. Plus, there is a bump – I think I got clipped on my rear passenger car by another panicked driver, but who knows. I’m in slow-mo mode, and there is too much to process.
The long and the short, I end up going down the embankment, and due to a panic attempt to get back on the road, do a 180 and go backwards down the slope, and bump into a tree. Oh poo, I’ve ruined my car.
Get out, check on flipped car, someone else is already there to help, takes driver to his car (pulled over on the side of the road). I’m ok, no-one is dying, so I go back to check on my car and try to extricate it. But I have nothing in the car- just bought it. No chains, no come-along, nothing. Plus, blew out the rear passenger tire. When did that happen? Going backwards? Or was that the bump I felt earlier? Who knows.
Anyway, now, $230 in tow and tire repair later, I made it back home.
Lessons?
1) If it is snowy/icy, you cannot leave enough space between you and the car in front of you. Going slow will definitely make the trip take longer, but it is better than increasing the probability of personal injury, or, even worse, damage to your brick (you are organic, you can heal. The car requires costly bodywork.)
2) Buy Collision & comprehensive. Since I bought my first brick for a song , I never bothered insuring it for damage to it. The whole time I was sliding backwards, out of control, I was cursing the fact that I didn’t buy comp & collision damage on my policy. First thing tomorrow, I’m ponying up for the extra premium. If the new wagon gets hurt, I want the money to repair it.
3) Tires count. This never would have happened if I had the studded snows. Yes, you will almost never need the studs, but when you hit ice, you will be glad they are there. And the rest of the time, they don’t hurt.
4) Bring your toolkit/trunk stash if you are buying a new (used) vehicle. I felt like a fool having to wait to get pulled out.
5) Check your spare. The spare was OEM, probably never had been looked at since it weas hidden in that clever little well, and was shredded. Couldn’t put it on my car, so I had to pay for a “new” tire to be mounted, instead of just changing the tire. Oh, and by the way, the snows that were “free’ were unworn, but so old that the steel radial had eaten through the old rubber. I’m amazed that I didn’t enjoy a second blowout on the way home.
6) ABS is great, but it doesn’t mean that you can safely drive more aggressively. That, or my downshift killed me, or the tires were so bad that it didn’t matter… either way, I’m not trusting the ABS ever again to help.
7) The 240 is the best car ever. I stopped by running over numerous small trees (saplings really) and there was NO BODY DAMAGE! Yay for thick steel!
8) Be careful on route 380. The ice comes fast & furious, and isn’t visible.
Anyway, I love the new car, am pleased as punch that it is still in the same shape as when I bought it (except some grass & dirt, and a messed up tire), and look forward to driving it for that least the next 10 years. And, manual is so much more fun to drive!
Happy bricking, and be safe!
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Last Sunday was the first snow in Northern Virginia. I left the house at a little after 11, just as the snow was beginning. It was only supposed to be less than an inch, and it was well below freezing, so I wasn't too worried. I stopped on the way to get gas, and noticed that it had gone down 10c a gallon overnight. I had wanted to fill up before the snow, so as to be prepared, but it turned out to be worth waiting. It was snowing pretty hard by the time I got where I was going, and there was at least an inch on the ground when I left at a little after 2 PM. On I-81, traffic was fairly heavy, but moving along at about 45. The left lane had not been treated, and was much better---the snow blew right off of the cold asphalt, but the de-icer on the right caused it to stick and turn into slush. About a mile before my exit, traffic began to slow. A car and a van had collided, and the car spun out and ended up behind the guard rail. I'm still not sure exactly how it got to where it came to rest. People were standing around, nobody seemed to be hurt, only sheet metal damage. I took a picture out the window but it didn't turn out very well. Past the accident, as I accelerated, I could tell it had gotten very slippery--the car kept wanting to go sideways if I gave it more than the slightest whiff of throttle. I got to the exit, took it, and found that the road was covered in snow, with two sets of tire tracks approximately where the lanes were. I didn't want to go faster than about 25. Made it through town, crossed the railroad tracks and barely made it up the short steep hill on the other side. The road here was unbroken snow, with no evidence any vehicles had gone by in quite a while. I found that I could make about 12-15 MPH in second gear, barely touching the gas, trying not to think about my four Blizzaks, mounted, balanced, ready to go, stacked in the shed at home. A couple miles from the house is a big hill, long, steep and with a couple of turns going up. I was not looking forward to it. I took as much of a run as I dared, and hit it at about 25. About halfway up, I saw flashing blue lights ahead. I thought "Oh, no, there's been a wreck, I don't want to have to stop on this hill and try to turn around" As I inched closer (down to 10 MPH or less) I saw that the police car was in the ditch, on the wrong side of the road. He had been unable to make it up, and then slid of the road sideways from spinning his wheels. I kept a steady foot on the gas, and crept past at around 6-8 MPH, and just as I got to the top the back end of the car started to go to the right. I took my foot off and it straightened right out. It gave me great satisfaction to think of that cop sitting there watching, after having failed so miserably in his attempt...... I wasn't quick enough on the draw to get a picture, and I had my hands full keeping the car on the road. Oh well. I hope nobody ran into him, as he was on the wrong side of the road, just over a blind hill. It took me about 15 minutes to go the next two miles, but I got there, though I've made better time on my bike when it was nice out.
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HI LYAM!
I think You are quite good driver, and now when 245 ( ABS or? ) You know, some likes, some don`t. But 240 has no computer, wich say I TAKE NOW AND HANDLE CAR, those systems are nowdays in ALL CAR`s , some have button to take them out, ( thank the GOD ) some are made on " people with no hands or legs or brains " So I don`t know are You ERIES BOYS or what, but when You are in the wheels, You are always alone. There is no help coming anywhere to anyone. I think You know this all ready. Whatever, I am sorry YOU MUST DRIVE without studs. But what is THE MOST IMPORTANT is that all take care of what kind is the weather. But Hey! In here is every, spring and autumn many crashes, there waist`s cars and human lives.. And al this, because in now a days, peoples cannot practice driving eaven their own lands. No promise, especially under 15 yrs, Only in RACINC AREAS, But we have not those anymore enough. So You have seen, We have no any RALLY_ DRIVERS..in future.
Sorry, I maybe forget the issue.. YRS: WEBERMAN
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You mentioned downshifting to 4th. Good thing to do when on dry pavement, terrible to do when it is even a little bit slippery. You can lose traction and have the rear fishtail.
When I lived outside Chicago, I bought a Mazda MPV with rear wheel drive. It did not have a limited slip diff. In snowy conditions, I would always lose traction on one wheel and have a terrible time regaining control. That is when I learned to shift the auto tranny to N immediately. At least all 4 wheels were then rolling and I could maintain control.
With your new 5 speed, use the clutch! Do not rely on ABS to keep the wheels turning.
Have fun. I wish I could find a good condition 245 with a 5 speed around here. Most of them have more rust than paint.
Klaus
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1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi
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In snowy conditions, I would always lose traction on one wheel and have a terrible time regaining control.
Um...Klaus? Don't take this wrong way, but...why did you lose control of your vehicle because one wheel is spinning? Even a front wheel drive will still manage to steer when a single drive wheel is spinning. Actually one of the reasons I don;t like FWD, is because when your drive wheels skid, you lose your steering. IN a RWD< fishing tailing IS a way of steering.
In general I don;t like to fish tail. But, fishtailing was considered a real evasive action in a 'defensive' driving course I had to take as a very young lady. It's a very useful thing, in emergency circumstances.
I think we can agree that any sort of down shifting that causes a sudden change in wheel speed is NOT a good idea, but engine breaking is a very acceptable method of braking in slippery conditions. I do it without fail in snow, and barely ever use my brakes. I just place it in a lower gear, let off the clutch, and let the engine pull the car along. The automatic I do the exact same thing, usually placing the car in 1st to go down a hill.
I wasn't there with him, so I can't really say what I would have done. I suspect using neutral might have been an option, but again, I wasn't there to watch.
--
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus.
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The MPV was a RWD, not FWD. When doing 60mph+ on the local interstate and hitting some black ice, the right wheel would spin and the MPV would start to fishtail. Lifting up on the throttle would just cause it to slide in the other direction. Shifting to neutral allowed both rear wheels to get traction and cured the problem. Using the brakes was not an option.
Learning how to drive in a VW bug, back in the old days, I prefer oversteer to understeer. I know how to handle power drifting with a touch of oversteer, but have never learned or practiced power understeer. There aren't any good places around here to practice that. Besides, my 850 and V70 both have traction control up to 25mph and ABS. The MPV had nothing.
In the case of traveling on I-380 in the Penn foothills, probably doing around 70mph in a line of cars, down shifting to 4th and slaming on the brakes could have caused the rear to lock up momentarily and initiated a slide. I don't know, but it was obviously slippery somewhere to cause the lead car to go upside down. The downshift to 4th would not cause effective engine braking at that speed, which the poster will learn after a few hours of trial and error.
He did the only thing he could do, considering the traffic, and that was to go to the median to avoid the other cars. It is always amazing to hear of adrenaline based thought, where each second of real time seems to last 10 seconds.
Klaus
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1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi
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I am familiar with the MPV, and it being a RWD. The car never really impressed me, but it did some of my friends, and they owned them, so I got to know some of their quirks.
If the car was fishtailing, then both drive wheels had lost traction. It might have started with the right side, and that might have been spinning far faster than the left, but fishtailing requires both wheels to skid. One wheel spinning on hard turns was something I became quite familiar with in 240s, especially in evasive driving tactics in the special course I had to take. Coincidently, 244s were the majority of fleet for the instruction group.
All that happens when a single wheel spins is that you loose momentum in the turn, and the other wheel holds the car to the surface of the road. You only fish tail when the outside wheel breaks free. The reason you skidded back the other way is because when you let of the gas, the instant sudden change in speed combined with both wheels not having traction forced it that way. This is not an uncommon event, especially if you have a gear ratio that has the engine fairly reved up at the speed you are moving. The MPV was one of those sorts of cars. Revs in the 240 are lower.
Read Robert Ludwicks comments on how you use your engine to brake your speed, its really a solid technique. And certainly one that I use with great success.
--
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus.
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I was only going about 55mph when the joy happened. Since it was a "new to me" car, and it had been snowing, I wasn't being all that aggressive, averaging about 55. My biggest mistakes were going into the left lane to pass someone who was intelligently going about 45.
In anticipation of getting the manual, I had been reading posts about what gear people used to go up hills, and some had claimed that they used 4th at speeds up to 75mph, so I’d been playing between 4th and 5th to try to get a feel for the car.
I probably would have been better off dropping it into neutral, since I hadn’t had enough practice with the car. I probably wasn’t clutching all that well, probably not matching speeds that well, and my downshift probably added to the problem, or at least didn’t help. Learning your car on ice is not the right thing to do.
By the way, was it standard for manuals to come without a tach? The only guidance I have for when to shift is the cute little idiot arrow, the engine sound and feel. Seems odd to have a manual without a tachometer, and thank goodness I know the sound of the engine from driving the automatic for 4 years.
Thanks for the kind words and sympathy, I hope it serves as a cautionary tale for others.
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Hi I was little perplexed by using Tach to change gears .
I have 1990 with M47 II and it has a tach also ( 52mm) .It is good to have it initially but after a while you will stop looking at it. You may be knowing that the arrow is programmable however fatory setting (which I have on my car) tells you to shift earlier, good for flat roads while driving in relaxed mode.
I just change based upon power/accelration I am getting and the control I need . Lower gear gives more control/acc in small curvy roads and the usual stuff- Use same gear for downhill you will use for uphill unless engine is more powerfull ( Which It is not) or you can handle the speed.
For your ref the owners manual lists min/max speed in each gear
1st ----25 miles
2nd ----10-44
3rd ----20-70
4th ----25 >
5th ----44 >
U will soon see that it is good to shift to 5th at 50-55,4th at 40,3rd at 30 approx..10 is too low for 2nd .Rest all depends upon load and gradient that is why feel of power is good ,You will know the base line when you will shift too early.
It seems they decided ratios for hauling heavy loads . Good thing is whether with load or without load you will not feel any diff in power delivery.Even when unloaded it drives as if you are hauling a load and with load you do not feel lack of power within its power limits
For other methods pertaining to better gear shifting here is a link which describes heel and two shifting in case you want to explore it. It is good for this tall geared car.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html
If you do not press brake while downshifting then the same thing becomes double declutching. This is the link for that
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/Volvo_Books/trans1.html
See section WHAT IS DOUBLE CLUTCHING? HOW CAN IT IMPROVE SYNCHRO LIFE?
Once you get used to it you will love to downshift and brake like that and wonder why I did not use it before
Hey just sharing my enthusiasm for manual cars not an expert here.
Shift to redline MTF or amsoil Type F.
Regards
Gopesh
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Don't feel bad,Nobody was born with a steering wheel in their hand, we all had to learn somewhere.
If you look in the owners manual, there should be a section showing minimum and maximum speeds for each gear. Once you memorize it, it does as good as a tach for shift points.( if it didn't come with the manual, you can get one from www.volvotechinfo.com )
Neutral would have most likely been worse, you loose control quicker. On ice you really don't want to be using your brakes, you want to use the gears and throttle to control your speed. You had the right idea, just a little rough on implimentation :-)If it's snowing , always run down a gear and plan on eating gas, if it starts getting slick, drop another and let folks pass you while telling you that you're #1 and you'll avoid this kind of fun.
ABS keeps you going in the direction the steer tires are pointed by keeping the brakes from locking...that means that you need to allow more stopping room in many cases. when you stab the brakes, the abs quickly applies and releases the brakes , if it's really slick, you keep going, without the benefit of being able to lock a wheel or two and make it dance. Keep in mind, ABS was made for those who don't know how to make a car dance on slick surfaces :-) When you get 4 studded Nokians on it, it will feel just plain nice though.
I spent a lot of years pushing a big truck, a large portion of that on ice and snow and I've been in more scary slides than I can remember ( and had a few that I wish I could forget) Once you get the feel for that trany, you'll be able to handle it fine.
Glad you walked out of it with minimal damage.
--
-------Robert, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '86 740 GLE turbo diesel, '92 Ford F350 diesel dually
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I just found this on Ebay. It may or may not be what you are looking for, but at least it will give you ideas on what you want to do about a tach:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volvo-240-semi-gloss-finish-large-tachometer-clock_W0QQitemZ170028010197QQihZ007QQcategoryZ33679QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Klaus
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1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi
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Now you know why people put tachs in their cars. Stupid up shift light! Look around on Ebay and the brickboard's classifieds. Two different tachs exist, one goes into the instrument cluster to replace the clock and another smaller version goes to the right of the cluster. I would prefer the small clock and the tach in the instrument cluster.
Don't hurry, just make sure it is for a 4 cylinder and not for a 6! Watch out for the wiring behind the dash, there is a hot wire for a tach already.
Klaus
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1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi
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That is a dangerous stretch of road, even in the summer. Been there but didn't do that. It is hard to keep a reasonable distance and speed on 380, everyone is in such a hurry, and like you, wanting to go even faster. You got lucky. Your car did what you wanted it to do and what you did was correct.
ABS is OK, it keeps the wheels from locking up and you going totally out of control. It is hard to buy new tires when you are away from home. Especially, when it is a brand new used car. You probably should have been in the right lane and not trusting your new steed to the standards of your other cars. But hindsight is always 20/20.
We cannot put studs on our snow tires in the midwest, it is againds the law. So we have to live with just snow and lots of salt. We get to learn how to drive every winter.
Whenever the ABS pulses or any one of the tires makes a complaining noise (or my wife yells WATCH OUT), I consider myself to have made a mistake. Except for loud grumblings from the passenger side of the car, I haven't made very many mistakes lately :) But driving on Interstates can get hypnotizing and things happen very fast at 70+.
I joined AAA last year because I do not want to carry a trunk full of seldom needed stuff. Besides, I had 5 cars (3 Volvos), and towing insurance cost more than AAA.
I am glad you were safe. You have 4 new snow tires now. And you are combing the car for required peace of mind issues. Good for you. Keep the rubber side down,
Klaus
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1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi
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Hi
Jan 19 th was a bad day here as well on the outskirts of Philladelphia . About 10 accident in morning with in 2 miles of travel . All the bridges were badly iced. Some vehicles were sliding even when they were crawling.Good to know that you and your new car is safe.Congrats on buying this manual .They provide involving drive.
Regards
Gopesh
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Glad you are ok. I.m in the also in upstate NY, have friends in NJ, know 380 well. Every time we travel in snow it is worse on 380, and we always see over turned and off the road vehicles. Enjoy the car, sounds nice.
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Glad you're ok.......also have a '93 wagon( w/aw-71)...funny how driving in the north country, we get to do little manouvers like that every once in awhile...i'm with you on the studded hak's....been using them for years....got me moving and stopping on ice many times......surprized you had to go to nj...seems like when i was shuttling the daughter back and forth to ithaca, there was a volvo about every 20 yds.....lots of 240's.........but then maybe i'm not remembering my NYS geography all that well.........anyway, be safe....i'm heading out in todays storm, for the sunny southland...CT and then over to the tappan zee neighborhood...........j.
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FE my 93....she's the only new car I have ever bought, and probably always will be.
I think the cars do fine in the snow. As I always say, all cars have 4 wheel brakes. You don;t know what the term traction challenged means until you drive a 1 ton truck unloaded on a slippery surface.
And in winter conditions, I continue to be incredibly unimpressed by AWD vehicles.
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Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus.
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be hopelessly stuck and in need of some assistance. Yes, I am ALWAYS of the be prepared type, but there are reasonable limits. You just got bloody unlucky, and after such a series of evasive actions, I would want to make sure the car is safe before spinning and digging your way out of something.
I carry towing insurance for a sum total of 4 dollars a year for JUST this sort of thing.
And I am also a big worshiper of winches. this is what they are made for. Better for the car, better for the environment.
Had you had the car a few weeks, you would have had your tyres on it, so be glad you and the car survived relatively unscathed.
Truthfully, after such an adrenaline raising moment, I think I would enjoy the company of the tow truck driver....
--
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus.
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I'm glad your ok. My buddy's 740 just got rolled a couple of times when his friend that was driving fell asleep at the wheel and next thing you know they were upside down. Both of them are ok, save a small scratch or two.
Take care and enjoy your new purchase.
Kev
P.S. You forgot to mention what color your new baby is. :-)
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