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A friend and I were talking about the rear sway bars and how the mounting for the rear is different between the 240 and the 140 series. From the photos he showed me it appeared that the 140 was mounted by drilling holes and enforcing the sheet metal with plates while on the 240 the bar mounted to the trailing arms. If a custom swaybar were fabricated would it be possible to use the rear trailing arms on the 140 as mounts instead of having to punch through to the inside to mount it up. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. If possible I'd like to make it adjustable, but that would be a couple revisions down the road if I get the first one working at all.
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And in the near future Lola 2.0
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Have you got a locked diff or a LSD? You can't use one at all on an open diff in a road car, all you get is wheel spin.
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Put down the hash pipe man.
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And in the near future Lola 2.0
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With my RallyCross experiance, I can say a rear bar makes a huge differance on the car. I started out with my '71 142E, which was bone stock except for KYB's. Because of all the body roll, it was hard to control it in the turns. Basically, I couldn't get it to slide when I wanted, and I couldn't get the power down because there was no wieght on the inside tires. Then for two events I used a '72 144E with KYB's and the IPD anti-sway bars. HUGE differance. With the car staying flatter, I could get it to rotate much better. When I redid the suspension on my '71, I installed an IPD front bar, but adapted the rear bar from a '75 240. I mounted it up in the same location on the trailing arms that it had been on the 240, and it works out just fine. Basically, I drilled holes striaght thru the trailing arms, and used tubing as spacers to get the width right. (and to keep from crushing the trailing arms.) Currently I'm building a new rear sway bar for my 145 that I'm RallyCrossing now. Wagon seems to need more rear bar... can't imagine why... :)
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i think ussing a 240 bar would be a bad idea.
1st when you bolt the bar to the arms you have to count the length of the arms into how stiff the bar will be. so the bar will have to be much larger to get the same rate as one with shorter arms. so larger bar means more weight.
adding stiffer springs in the rear will help with body roll. if that still isn't enough go with a bar.
on my car i am curently runny 700#fr springs and 250#r and an ipd bar up front. i still want to reduce the body roll in the rear. i can't go much stiffer on the springs without making the car only be able to handle well on very smooth surfaces. so i'm going to be building a tubular adjustable bar for the rear. i'm going to be mounting it to the frame infront of the gas tank. and have the end links go down to the axle. that way i can keep the weight down and off of the moving parts. plus i'll be able to finetune the rate. also going to be building a tubular bar for the front at the same time too.
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John,
If you can mange to attach the sway bars to the trailing arms, I think you'll have a superior set-up than when they are attched to the body like the IPD bars. When I installed IPD bars on my 142E, I was unable to get the blocks on the axle and the rods that go through the body to be in a absolutely vertical position (not enough horizontal surface under the seat), so the blocks lean forward and the rods backward, which puts more strain on them than if they were perfectly vertical. It may not make any difference, and they work fine, but I still don't like those angles.
Bob S.
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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
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I fitted 240 rear bar to my 140 by drilling trailing arms and fitting spacers and crush tubes machined to fit, connected with long high tensile bolts. Heavy 2" lowered front and heavy 1" lowered rear springs. Handles very good with firm ride so i figure mod is working ok Regards Jack McIntyre. I also have 16" 200sx rims with 205x55 GT radials.
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posted by
someone claiming to be TedR
on
Tue Mar 21 23:13 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Hi,
I have a '74 144GL that I got in '82 and have been driving almost every day ever since (still needs paint). It came with ADCCO sway bars.
The rear bar mounts to a big thick metal plate that is bolted to the trailing arm.
U bolts are used to fasten the bar to the plate. A fore and aft bolt holds the plate to the trailing arm.
Works great and has held up well after all these years of very spirited driving.
The car still has a an ADDCO sticker next to the latch under the hood.
You might be able to find these bars/mounts on an old american car in the junkyard.
You might even want to contact them directly. I believe they are located in Flordia and still in business.
- Ted
'74 144GL
'59 PV445
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Hey Ted, any chance of you getting a picture of that rear mounting? If you do just send me an e-mail. I'd appreciate it.
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And in the near future Lola 2.0
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A guy in town modified a 740 rear bar to fit his 142. Don't know specifics, but I thought that they mounted to the trailing arms like the 240's do. That plate bolted to the trailing arm setup sounds like the plates people make to mount dual sway bars on the rear of 240's. Sure sounds feasible. And if not, the Addco bars aren't expensive....
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Do they mount anywhere other than the trailing arms, or is that the only connecting point?
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And in the near future Lola 2.0
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I think it's only the trailing arms. I'll try to look up some pics...
...here ya go...http://personal.linkline.com/dbarton/DualSways%2825mm%293.jpg
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What is the purpose of two, what look to be rather large rear sway bars, on a 142? Wouldn't that cause imense over steer unless balanced by two beefy front bars also. ...Then where does the ride quality go? The springs look stock, why not just do springs?
CU
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I don't think there would be any purpose on a 142, I just posted that for clarification on the mounting styles we were talking about. I'm pretty happy overall with no rear bar on my 142. I've always thought it felt a little soft in the back, so the next step is a better set of shocks, currently KYB's, and if that isn't enough, a stiffer set of springs, currently 125 lbs., and then resort to a sway bar.
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The effect on ride quality that sway bars have is MUCH less than a set of stiffer springs and shocks. But at the same time, they do nothing for dive and squat.
I'm sure he has a plan for stiffer springs, and a different swaybar setup up front. He's just looking for another way to setup a rear bar, rather than connecting it to the floorpan.
And, yes, the 240 bars ONLY connect to the trailing arms, 4 bolts. You can see how they connect at the bottom of this picture. This was a stock 240 turbo rear bar, I've since gone to the IPD 22mm rear bar(turbo bar is 21), and now 25mm back there.
I don't have any pictures, but there are a couple of different setups that the ITB guys use... I'm suprised Gary hasn't popped in here yet and said anything.
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Hi, I have another question. How does the bar mounted as such, just to the trailing arms counter body roll?
It seems to me that the bar when attached to the axle and the floor pan would counter body roll and weight transfer and the bar just attached to the trailing arms would help keep the wheels planted, but the two different methods seem to do slightly different tasks. Is that a fair assesment?
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I do agree that they work a little bit differently. And I think that the way that they work, requires the 240 style bar to be a bit larger in diameter to have the same effect. It reduces the roll by forcing the arms to move in tandem, well, at least more so. This in effect, reduces body roll through the arms, and through their mounting points on the body. If one moves, so does the other, to an extent, just like a sway bar does on the front of the car; one wheel moves, so does the other. Maybe a crappy explanation, but I think it might help get the point accross.
I was a bit confused when I found that putting the 25mm bar on my car reduced inside wheel spin though. Still not enough to do cookies with(just spins the inside rear instead of both wheels spinning), but better when driving around in the tight turns.
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Can we see some diagrams?
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