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Hello Volvo lovers,
Im a new volvo owner, as of yesterday, a 1988 Volvo 240GL. Its my first volvo and im very excited. I have had friends that owned them and i've driven them before. Im new to this site and im ready to tackle the problems that occur with older Volvos, especially electrical issues.
We bought the car from a third party and everything seemed solid. I have had many cars and have novice expereince with working with them. There was one thing that slipped by me and that was i didnt check to see if the brake lights work. And low and belhold, they dont. I have scoured the internet and this site all day for information and knowledge about my new Volvo and i know its only the beginning.
Now to my question. I have read some info but im still confused as to what to do? Here is the deal. At purchase, the back lights worked, excluding the break lights. So through reading and tinkering, i checked all the bulbs, circuits, panels, fuses and everything seemed fine. After that the back lights did not light up, fiddled around and now only drivers side back lights work and the break lights still do not work. So i added to the problem. I need help? Please. The panels seem old but still functionary. And since both side back lights worked yesterday, im wondering what i did wrong? I have fiddled the wires and the bulb holder and nothing. I checked the circuit connector to both panels and they seemed fine but that is when the back lights went out.
Here is the funny thing, the drivers side circuit connector is fryed but that is the side that works, what gives?
Excited but confused
Rudy
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There is this book, Volvo Service Manual Repairs and Maintenance, Wiring Diagrams, 240, 1987-1988. The number on mine is TP 31076/1, 3000.04.88.
It is absolutely invaluable when these problems arise. Schematic diagrams found in the Haynes and Bentley shop manuals are copies from this book. The pictorial diagrams and the charts locating relays and connectors and ground points are not found (AFAIK) anywhere else.
Call 1-800-25-VOLVO and ask Ken Cook Publishing about getting one, along with an Owner's Manual (assuming you don't have one).
The Bulb failure warning system, which causes that bulb-out light to come on, works by pairing certain lights. Brake lights, tail lights, and low beam headlights. No others. The wires to all those lights go through the BFWS relay, where the comparison is made.
For example, the left low beam current draw must equal right low beam current draw, or the Bulb-out light comes on. Same for the left and right tail lights and all three brake lights. This all means that when that bulb-out light is on, you must check to find out which bulb is out.
It also means that anything, like oxidation on a bulb base, that effects the current draw unequally can cause the BFWS relay to trip. That's why you'll see it recommended that bulbs be replaced with pairs of the same brand.
On your car, the power to the brake lights flows from the battery to Fuse #7, thence to the brake light switch - on the brake pedal arm. From there it goes to the BFWS relay.
Three wires come out of the BRWS relay and go into a harness towards the rear of the car. The one for the high-level light goes into a connector that is not the same one as for the lower lights. Both connectors are above the driver's left toe, and a PITA to get at. Let's hope they are not the problem.
The wires for the rear lights all come to the connector to the left light. wires for the right turn signal, brake light and tail light go into a cross-car harness. All others connect to the left light.
The connector at the left light has:
White wire in #7 box...left fog light.
White wire in #8 box...right fog light.
(these two touch the same copper film on the circuit board)
Red wire in #6 box... left tail light.
Yellow wire in #5 box...left brake light.
Green wire in #4 box...left turn signal
Black wire in #1 box...left back-up light.
Black wire in #2 box...right back-up light
(These two touch the same copper film in the circuit board)
You can check for 12 volts at each wire connection. There will be none at #8 and #2, as these carry voltage from the left side to the right side.
The problem caused by old age is that where the connecting pincers clamp on to the copper film gets corroded, dented, oxidized and burnt. Everything in the connector may be just dandy, but the voltage can't get into the circuit board.
The copper film in question is on the BOTTOM side of the connecting spot, use a mirror to look at it.
Have a go at all that, post back.
Bob
:>)
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1. Check that the brake light fuses (as well as all the others) have a good connection and are free of corrosion. Think about purchasing replacement glass fuses designed to be used in holders like Volvo uses.
2. Determine if you are getting 12v in the wire that supplies the brakelights. Use a test light with a sharpened point and probe for a wire that shows power only when the pedal is pressed.
3. If you do not have 12v in the wire work your way forward. Go to the brake light switch. It is high up on the pedal mechanism. You will need to remove the knee bolster, push the seat back and put your body in a painful position. Check for 12v at the switch on the supply side before pedal is pressed and on both sides after.
4. If all the brake lights quit working all at once (which you would not know)the round red bulb out relay could be bad. They can usually be resoldered after removing the cover and examining the solder joints to find the bad one or simply resolder all of them. You can usually fine the bad joint in strong light with a magnifying glass.
5. If the wire is powered and the lights are not working you need to clean the contacts that connect the wires to the board as well as the contacts for the bulb holders in each case. A clean pencil eraser is good for the bulb holder contacts on the board. Clean things up and wiggle to see where the problem is.
Good luck and let us know what you find
Randy
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Randy, thank you for your time and insight to my problem. I started at the fuses and fixed the non-brake light issue. The right side back lights have its own fuse.
Anyways, regarding the brake lights, all other fuses worked, then i checked the brake light switch and it tested good. When i press the brake all three wires have voltage. Then only one when i depress brake.
So the next place i checked was the exact wire on the harness that connects to the board for the rear lights. There seems to be three power lines. One that lights up without pressing the brake (back lights, i assume) and then two others, one that lights up when braking and the other that doesnt. For both sides, exact problem. The one that works is a light color and the one that doesnt work, one side is red and the other brown.
So, my question is, where does my problem lie? After the pedal sensor does it go straight to the wires out back or am i missing a step. For example, the dashboard light indicator, how does that play a part? And why both sides dont work but the extra middle brake light that is up top on the rear window work?
Please help me. thank you. Im so close, im exctied to fix this myself.
One last thing, Im confused about this. I dont know what you mean and where you are referring to.
Maybe this is where my problem exists:
4. If all the brake lights quit working all at once (which you would not know)the round red bulb out relay could be bad. They can usually be resoldered after removing the cover and examining the solder joints to find the bad one or simply resolder all of them. You can usually fine the bad joint in strong light with a magnifying glass.
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I am sorry, but I am confused. Brake lights should come on when you press the brake pedal. I believe that your checking indicated that the switch is closing and supplying power to the wires in the trunk. Is this true? The brakelight circuit is working properly right before it feeds the individual brake lights? If your answer is yes then the problem is in the tail light assembly; bad connection, bad bulb holder, etc.
The fact that the third brake light in the rear window is working means you do not have to worry that it might be the bulb out sensor relay. When they are responsible for no brake lights none of the brake lights work.
So is your current issue with brake lights or tail lights? The tail lights should illuminate when the headlights are on or when the headlight switch is moved from off to the first position. Again check the wires for power before they attach to the tail lights with the switch in the appropriate position to light the tail lights.
Randy
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Sorry for the confusion. You are right the pedal switch is supplying power but when I trace it to the trunk wiring harness the brake light wire doesnt supply power (i used needle nose tester). I individually checked each wire on the harness and the only one that does not supply power with or without pressing the brake is the brake wire. All other lights work back there: back light, turn signals, etc.
So my questions are:
What are reasons why, the third brake light works but bulb out indicator is lite on dashboard?
Why is power supplied at switch but not at the indivdual wire on harness (for brake)?
Do you know the the path after the brake wire leaves the pedal switch?
To clarify, the assembly tested fine, each connection and bulb holder shows power even the dual tail light that should supply power to brake light. And, yes the bulb is dual filament. So i believe that the problem does not exist there.
Thanks again
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Other than the fact that the third brakelight is working I would say that perhaps it was the bulb out sensor relay. It is a round red plastic cased relay on the driver's side just behind the knee bolster; it is the only round red item there so it is pretty easy to find.
If you could find someone with a known good one you could swap it out for yours and see if it fixed your problem.
Electrical issues are not my strong area, there are several people who frequent the board who would be more helpful than I will be beyond this point.
You might do well to repost your problem and include what addtional information you have at this time. Good luck.
Randy
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posted by
someone claiming to be tbags
on
Sat Oct 22 00:27 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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I'd replace the circut boards if the are old. hate to admit but it took me a while to realize that the wire bracket/clip too the tail light can become corroded. Removing it and putting it back on might give you a temporary fix and then a day later the same issue. Clean up those connections.
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