Not another starting problem... Hopefully this one's different, and hopefully someone can help. I've done a search on the Brickboard but came up with nothing similar, though I'm now terrified of "lawnmower syndrome"... (on a side topic, what's the deal with that? I understand it's a '93 thing, but are '94 Turbos succeptable?)

The car is a 1994 850 Turbo wagon, B5234FT with an automatic. It was a US car, transplanted to Canada. 136,000 miles now on it. This is my wife's car and it's fairly new to us (3-4 months) so I'm not all that familiar with it yet. So far it's been perfectly reliable, with never a hint of trouble. In the past couple of weeks, a peculiar starting difficulty has surfaced and it's starting to get worse.

The car turns over absolutely normally - NOT spinning really fast like it has lost compression, not rough, nothing different. The only thing is, after the normal 1/2 second of cranking, it does NOT start. It doesn't do anything except spin and spin. I've held the starter for up to 30 seconds without any change. Most of the time, if she waits a few minutes and goes back, it fires right up like normal and drives away perfectly fine Some times all she has to do is try again after a second or two and it works fine. It gives NO trouble while it's running, with no stumbling or hesitation, and it sips gas as delicately as it ever has since we changed the O2 sensor. Plus it accelerates like crazy!

The once or twice that it's happened near our home, I was able to get a timing light on the coil wire and got nothing. There was power at the positive side of the coil but no dwell at the negative side. I unplugged the ignition amplifier and when I plugged it back in, the car started. I'm not too excited, 'cause I've unplugged LOTS of things on this car and when they were plugged back in, the car started up again. The lack of spark during cranking tells me something, though.

Again, when it starts up after the no-start problem, it starts just like it normally does - 1/2 second of cranking and boom. No smoke, no stumble, no drama at all, and certainly nothing noticable once under way. I'm getting no error codes from the OBDII reader I borrowed, so I guess it's down to random component replacement unless something fails permanently.

That is, unless someone has another idea...

To put a closer on this thread...

The last time the car ran, it started fine three or four dozen times in a row, back to back in one night. It also got me to work the next morning and home the next afternoon, but when my Wife tried it that evening, it wouldn't run. It kept giving us a 3-1-4 code every time I tried to start it, and occasionally a 3-2-5, Memory Failure. Like I said, that got me worried...

Anyway, I tried unplugging and plugging in the computer, cleaning the contacts, unplugging and plugging in the cam sensor, chasing the wires... nothing. After probably 2 dozen times attempting to start the car, it stopped giving me error codes altogether! It still wasn't starting, but now I wasn't getting the 3-1-4 code I previously got EVERY time it failed.

So I parked it until I got $200 CDN to buy a cam position sensor.

Threw it in last night. Car started first try, started every time we tried it last night (7 or 8 times), started this morning when my wife took it to work... I think it's fixed.

So, after all the terror from seeing all the posts on this list about how replacing the cam sensor didn't fix the 3-1-4 code, I thought it was time for a little good news.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Matt

For a while I thought I had a handle on this, but now it seems not. I was getting a 3-1-4 code on socket A2, which is apparently a cam position sensor. After reading about how many people on here replaced their CPS without fixing the problem, I was a little sceptical. Also strange, after clearing the code, more often than not the car would start right up and run like normal. When I shut the engine off, socket A2 shows 1-1-1. I haven't been able to register a code after I shut it off, only after it won't start (if you know what I mean)

So I did a continuity check between the ECU and the cam position sensor, and everything seems to be fine there - I got three pins in the ECU with 0 resistance to the three pins in the CPS connector, and none of the three had any continuity with each other or any other that I could tell (though the ground pin on the CPS socket did have a high continuity with some other pins, which should be expected.)

I cleaned up the CPS connector and gooped it up with some vaseline. I pulled the CPS itself and there's no trace of an oil leak from the camshaft. The half-cup on the end of the cam looked good with nothing strange showing up, and the CPS itself looked clean, without any strange steel chips stuck to the magnet or anything. I checked resistance across a couple of the wires but couldn't make much sense of them. Two wires both had continuity with the third, and I couldn't wiggle or jiggle the connector to get it to change.

I reinstalled the ECU and powered it up - I got ground, 5 volts, and 12 volts respectively at the CPS plug of the engine harness. It still wouldn't start, and now it won't register a code at all. I made up a jumper to plug in between the harness and the sensor so I could test the thing with it hooked up, and the car started. After I plugged the chassis connector back to the CPS, I was able to start it about 40 times in a row without trouble. I drove it around for a day without having a no-start issue, but my wife couldn't get it running last night when she tried.

So I went out this morning and checked the code; 3-1-4 again. Cleared it and tried starting it, but it wouldn't start. Checked the code again and this time I got a 3-1-4 and a 3-2-5, and that's the first time I saw that. Memory failure!?! What's that? I cleared them again and tried to start it without success, again registering a 3-1-4 and a 3-2-5.

So now I'm worried. I'm begging someone to give me a suggestion!

Matt

Bump - nobody's got any idea?

Try checking the cam position sensor. Mine was intermittent, no rhyme or reason. Replacing that fixed the problem.

Ensignnolo

I've been reading through this site for the past week or so, doing searches on starting problems, lawnmower syndrome, cam sensors, etc., and I think I see why I'm having troubles with this car and the problems. Please bear in mind, this car's fairly new to me and I'm not familiar with it, so I may not be doing all the things a seasoned 850 owner would.

Last night I did a few things. The service manager at our Volvo dealership told me about the three "J" relays behind the fuse box, so I rotated them all to see if one was bad and nothing changed. I checked the system relay on the rad support, and it clicks on and off like it should, but I haven't actually checked inside as it's all gooped up.

Then I checked the diagnostic center behind the passenger headlight, and read all the codes. I got 3-1-4, 1-2-2, 4-1-8, and a bunch more. I doubt they've ever been cleared by the P.O., so after recording them all I cleared them, or rather I tried to. B3 would not clear for some reason - I pressed the button for 6-7 seconds and waited for the LED to flash, but it never came. I tried 6 or 7 times. Some of the other codes I recorded I probably put there by screwing around - I set off a check engine light earlier by unplugging the AIC valve with the engine running, but I cleared that with an OBDII reader.

When I cleared A2 (who's only code was 3-1-4), I heard a whirring and then a click from somewhere towards the fuse box from where I was standing (R.F. corner of the car.) Nothing like that happened upon clearing any of the other codes.

After I had cleared all the codes I tried starting it and it fired up first try. I tried it again a couple of times until it again refused to start, and read A2 again - 3-1-4. Cleared it again, whirr-click again, car started right up. Started 4 or 5 times after that, and for the final one I went for a bit of a drive.

This morning it won't start again, and A2 shows 3-1-4. I thought I had 'er licked, so I tried clearing the code... and it won't clear. Press the button for 6-7 seconds and wait for the LED, and nothing happens. Same as B3.

First of all, I'm going to start checking plugs, grounds, and wiring harnesses. I don't want to tear up the harness right from the cam sensor to the ECU, and for that matter the short might be somewhere else seemingly unrelated! In several of the other posts, problems have been described but no follow-ups have been posted to tell others what happened, and the thread is locked so I can't ask that person directly. Please, anyone reading this - if you've got a similar experience, share the result!

And second, what does it mean when you can't clear the code? I assume it means it's a fairly permanent fault, and it's still faulty while you're trying to clear it, so it won't let you.

Thanks everyone so far for your help. There are a few things I'm fairly confident of: it's not Lawnmower Disease; it's not fuel pressure or fuel related; and it's a pain in the butt.

Here was my problem from a post I did a few weeks ago. This may help. Remember, I know little about cars.

" 94 non turbo wagon(165k) always started right up. Last week or so very slow to start and runs rough for a few seconds then runs fine. The starter has to grind a bit to get things going. Once in a while starts up fine(little cranking)always drives fine, then will start up with a lot of cranking. I have cranked it for a few seconds, all the lights on the dash come on, then crank again, it starts and runs shaky, few seconds, then runs fine. No codes. This is my wife's car and it and the slow start makes her nervous to take the kid out.

New plug wires, rotor, etc. about 30 thousand miles ago. I checked and cleaned the plugs, wires, rotor and cap. New fuel filter, No change. The air filter is clear too."

I also swapped out the temperature sensor and spent 200 bucks getting it towed and looked, plugs replaced from being fouled, at at a local shop when it would finally not start.They could not fix it either.

Took it to the Volvo dealer. He changed the fuel pressure regulator and it starts like new. The old one was leaking and flooding, thus all the cranking. $137 buck part at the dealer. With no code I did not know what to replace.

Maybe this info can help you.

Okay, there goes the first and easiest thing to try... I changed the ignition switch and it worked great for a few days, but it won't start again this morning. I'm not at home (the wife just called me and is getting a ride in to work) so I can't check it. I also can't check it until I get back from being out of town this weekend, so it'll probably work just great when I DO get around to looking at it.

So if anyone else has any bright ideas, let 'em fly.

Same symptoms - spins just like normal but does not even try to fire. Without warning, it'll just start and run perfectly. Last night she came home from walking the dogs at around 8:00, parked it on the street like she normally does, and this morning it just won't start. I'm wondering if it could be the alarm, as she always locks & unlocks it with the remote?

HELP!!!

Matt

I should mention, 9 times out of 10, the car starts normally the first try. This problem is intermittant, and cannot be duplicated at will. It normally happens when my wife's alone or I have no access to tools for diagnosis.

Replaced the electronic ignition switch in my 96 glt which had the exact same problem, and it solved it. No problems since then. The switch is located under the steering wheel inside the plastic cover. Just remove the plastic cover (T5 torx)and replace. About $40 from the dealer.

Marty

Ya know - I was thinking of my Brother's Honda sometime after I posted this: it had power to run the lights and accessories, plus it cranked the motor just fine, but it would not fire. Eventually it would fire and run until the cows came home, but the next time you tried to start it there would be a good chance that it wouldn't start again. I was also thinking that when our 850 does fire, it fires right up as though nothing was wrong, so the injectors mustn't be squirting while the coil's not firing, and that got me thinking about the ignition switch.

I'll change it as a matter of course, and we'll keep an eye on it.
Thanks, Marty.

Also, if you have a keychain with lots of keys in addition to your carkeys, try to reduce its weight by removing some of the keys and stuff to another key chain. It has been reported that a heavy keychain can affect the key ignition switch...


yt855
1994 855 5spd non-turbo @ 101k