Thinking about getting a V70. This will be my 7th Volvo, but first FWD/AWD Volvo. I generally like to buy a 2-3 year old car.

What I'm wondering is if there are significant differences between the S70 based V70 versus the S80 based V70. I suspect there is, but has Volvo figured out the bugs on the S8o based V70? I'm driving a'93 245, and a '93 940.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom I usually read, and do not reply. But this time. Well!! My first Volvo was a '79 245. My second was & is a '91 940 GLE currently with 179K on the clock. My 3rd. is a '01 V70 2.4T, with a mere 19,900. showing. I happen to like the new style. The ride is excellant in my humble opinion, and the brakes are adequate to haul it down from 80/85 mph. A bit above the posted limit but well so what. The standard tires are ok, but not great. Will look around a bit when it's time to replace. I see a lot of Volvos, and damn few of them with only 1 head light glowing. Course that could be that around here the local constabulary, sites you with a $75.00 donation to the city's well being for that. I like the style, and have had no problems with the car in slightly less than 20K. There are people who don't care for the style. It is different from the old flying brick style. But then so was the 740/940 from the older 245. Would I pop for another one. Hell Yes!! Any company that backs its parts with a 1 year warranty, instead of 30 or 60 days cann't be all bad. The dealership is OK, but not great. They see me once a year to upgrade the computer, and do a check. I do oil changes and plugs, and have an excellant shop for the rest. I suggest you test drive one and see what you think. The new car, I find is much more responsive, and has better response than the older 940's. By the way, in the same time frame as the '91 940, we have had 2 rice burners (Junk) and a BMW, in my humble opinion much overrated. & damn expensive to maintain. Thats my thoughs. I also held an SCCA Comp license, and raced VSCCA as well. Which happens to be irrelivent. See Yah.

Sam in Cinci.

Thanks for all the replies. I look forward to the day I become a FWD club member.

Tom

new v70 is based on p2 platform...it's 100% torsionally stiffer than the older 850-based v70. personally, i like the 850 style over the newer ones. however, many have complained about the harsh ride of 850/v70. the new p2-based v70 definitely will not have this problem.

I find that my 2002 V70"s ride is very comfortable. it is a perfect balance of comfort and performance. IMHO
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2002 V70. Silver metallic. stock.w/tinted windows

We own a 95 855 and 98 S70. Overall, I like the new V70s. I would
still avoid the AWD until a Haldax system is introduced on the 70s
(search the archives for AWD issues). The S60 and new V90 have the
Haldax system already.

The new V70 also offers side air curtain which I think is important
with all the trucks and SUVs driving around with bumpers at the
head height of the occupants of cars.

I suspect a new V70 has no more issues then the older V70s. Thats
not saying they don't or one is better. More of a "six of one
half dozen of another" issue.

Beginning with it's uglier, there are quite a few differences. But the engine is still the reliable 5cyl., which really makes this a 70/80 fusion vehicle of some kind. Yet some bugs, alas, remain. Too much money spent on restyling and retooling, when a couple hundred million of those dollars could have gone into engineering improvements, instead. My opinion. A search through some of the previous posts can tell you quite a bit more.

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(98 S70 T5SE misc mods, mostly lighting) (92 940GLE)

Hmmm...interesting reply!

The new V70s are much sleeker than their older cousins. They are wider, ride 100% better (the older V70s rode OK but feel like trucks when compared to the new V70s), have many important safety enhancements, their suspension compnents are more versatile, they are more responsive and, overall, their total quality is at a much higher level.


Yannis
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2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17" 'Tethys' alloys

But hideously overstyled.
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(98 S70 T5SE misc mods, mostly lighting) (92 940GLE)

Oh David are you still singing that same tired old song "The new V70 is overstyled" why are you so happy to tell other V70 owners that you think their cars are ugly ? or shall I quote you "hideously overstyled", you seem to have a deep seeded hatred for all things "V70 (the new ones) why is that ?
you don't even own one, so why do you care ? you are entitled to your opinion but please try to use a little diplomacy. remember that the Automobile that people drive are much, much more than an appliance to some and that there is a bonding between men and machine . keep that in mind the next time you call someones baby "ugly" and "hideously overstyled" because you're talking about my baby !

I won't detail my complaints about the design, but the crux of it comes down to this: Volvo pricing is zero-sum. So if Volvo spends a few hundred million dollars on restyling, what came out? I still see brand new S80s and new V70s with one headlight out. Oh, please. Instead of giving us fins or some other banal style feature, why not fix the engineering and materials so this doesn't happen with each model? I have friends with S60s (honey, I shrunk the S80...design bankruptcy rarely reaches such depths) who chant the same litany of complaints that you hear with 850s and S70s.

A tale of two driveways near me: for as long as I can remember, a brand new Volvo in each driveway every year (240s, 700s, 900s, 850s, XC's, C70). Today, two Lexae, an Audi, and a used 'old' V70 acquired last week. This is hardly a complete marketing survey, but it sends a strong message to wherever Volvo gets its mixed signals from that dedicated Volvo buyers have sniffed out the brand shift and their loyalty is shifting in response. They're trying other cars they would never have given a thought to before, and they're buying them! (And by the way, the cars they're buying are better looking, without the superfluous design cues that decorate the new Volvos.)

As a singer (and designer), I have the stamina to sing this song for a long time. I'd sing it in Dearborn and Gothenburg. I'd sing it to Bill Ford's face if I had the chance. If I had the authority I'd stop singing long enough to give Peter Horbury five minutes to clear out his desk and leave the premises. But the new design is out there, so there's not much else I can do about it except make my feelings known...and hope that by the time I'm ready to buy again, Volvo will have a package that whispers 'substance' to me, instead of screaming 'style.'
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(98 S70 T5SE misc mods, mostly lighting) (92 940GLE)

>>> I still see brand new S80s and new V70s with one headlight out>>>

Oh, come on...how many of the new Volvos do you see with one of their headlights burned out??? It happens very rarely.

I have 24,500 miles on mine and NEVER have had to replace a lightbulb. On the other hand, my previous car (a '98 V70R) that I woned for about a year and 14,000 miles had two burned lightbulbs.

Let's not argue too much about design since beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. But I can tell you one thing, and I am being 100% honest, here: While I had my 1998 V70R, I NEVER EVER received a compliment on it. Ever since I got my 2001 T5, I can't tell you how many times people came up to me while I was filling up with gas and asked me "is this the new Volvo wagon?" or "what kind og car is this?" or once while I was waiting at a red light (with the sunroof open), a huge tractor trailor pulls up next to me and all of a sudden I hear "Yo, buddy...how much did your car cost? It is just the best looking wagon I have ever seen"!!! I just smiled and thought..."I will be damned...8 years of driving Volvos and NO ONE, I mean NO ONE has ever come up unsolicited to compliment a car I was driving..."


Yannis
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2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17" 'Tethys' alloys

I get compliments all the time, too, and I have the 'old' S70. Not denying the new 70/80 have plenty of style. But not everyone likes it....and my original point is that many militant Volvo owners see it as signalling an uncomfortable brand shift so they're likely to by a Lexus or an Audi or something.

Seems every S80 in this neighborhood has a light out, and my wife's best friend's new V70 with less than 10K on the odo, too. My boss (S60) has replaced two this year. Maybe it's the New England salt air.
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(98 S70 T5SE misc mods, mostly lighting) (92 940GLE)

>>> so they're likely to by a Lexus or an Audi or something>>>


Don't forget that Volvo's clientele are getting younger therfore there is less loyalty and they are more transient. Same goes for the other brands.


Yannis
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2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17" 'Tethys' alloys

My father always told me "not to argue with an ignorant man" and I think I'll take his advice . You don't have a clue as to what it takes to survive in the automotive business and if it were up to you , Volvo would still be selling "bricks" with carburetors.
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2002 V70. Silver metallic. stock.w/tinted windows

Hmmm. Just when I was thinking next time I'm in Dearborn we'll get together for lunch, along comes an insult. *My* father told me something pejorative about the character of those who would resort to such tactics. Let's call a truce on the name-calling and keep the discussion on topic. Reasonable men and women can disagree. You think the new Volvos are attractive, I don't. You think style is important to Volvo's survival, I think they could have better spent **some** of that money elsewhere and that the jury's still out. Would still like to get together with you for lunch next time I'm in town.

Whether I know about surviving in the automotive business, you may have a point. But I know something about design and branding...and am fascinated about the way this will play out when the dynamics of market forces are applied. Growth requires that new buyers snap up the new style faster than former militantly loyal buyers abandon it. Can it be done?

Generally, I have plenty of sympathizers in the world of automotive pundits (a couple have quoted me), who pretty much still think of Volvo as an off-brand, not up to par with their European counterparts. This perception, it seems to me, would have been better overcome by putting less into style and more into some of the invisible essentials of automotive character that are somehow seen as 'missing.' I'd rather see the S60 compared with the BMW 3-class...not with Altima (now there's an insult!).

Historically, Volvos have hardly all been bricks, so I'm not opposed to design/style changes, either, though I think a bit of vestigial 'brickishness' in the core product (S60/V70) would have been a far smarter branding move. I just think Horbury's ornate, baroque approach missed the mark by a serious margin. (I think the new XC's a winner, by the way, and the way to introduce new styling: by creating a new class. They also did that with the S80. Instead of making the S60 into an HO-scale version of the cruiserweight, they could have done something less ornate with the S70 cum S60...and given us a RWD coupe - another great styling opportunity that wouldn't compromise brand, and a car I'd be very likely to buy.)

So...let's do lunch?
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(98 S70 T5SE misc mods, mostly lighting) (92 940GLE)

Well it's very evident that we are both very passionate about Volvo's (and that's a good thing) and I accept that fact that we BOTH can agree that we "disagree" (boy is that an understatement or what ?) .
The point of my previous post is that I've been in the business of automobile manufacturing for nearly 15 years and that gives me an unique insight into this crazy business of automobile manufacturing than perhaps those on the outside looking in. what I'm saying is this: It is a business, it is about profits, and to generate profits you have to sell in large volumes. to sell the most cars ,to make these profits, you MUST APPEAL TO THE MASSES. it is about VOLUME. the faster you make them the cheaper they cost (to produce) and the more money you make on each and every one. it is unfortunate but, be thankful that Volvo survived as long as it did as an independent automotive manufacturer. as we all know, they were sold to the Ford Motor Company 3 years ago. Why do you suppose they sold Volvo? because Volvo could not sustain itself as an independant automobile manufacturer, and that is sad, they made a fine product, but that alone was not enough to sustain a sales volumes high enough to obtain profits. there simply were not enough people out there who wanted to buy the traditionally styled Volvo products. so here we are 3 years into the Ford ownership of Volvo and all of the sales figures ( record sales in 2001) have shown a great deal of public (mass) acceptance of Volvo products. Volvo generated 700 million dollars profit in 2001. Ford has committed 6 BILLION dollars for Volvo to develop future new Volvo platforms. Yes some of them will be shared platforms ! why? because even a company as large as Ford cannot afford to produce a separate platform for each and every car model. it's just simple economics.

let me assure you of one thing, Ford has historically used common platforms with SOME Ford content on the entry level models ONLY. I have no reason to believe that they are going to "Fordize " the entire Volvo vehicle line. in fact Ford is much more interested in using Volvo safety engineering and intergrating it into Ford products. one example of Volvo safety engineering that was used on a Ford vehicle is the Volvo Inflatable Curtain, this is the airbag that deploys from the roof liner and runs from the "A" pillar to the "C" pillar, Ford consulted with Volvo safety engineers about installing this safety feature on Ford vehicles and Ford has made this safety feature a standard feature on the Ford explorer. Volvo will continue to be a large source for safety features and innovations for the FORD MOTOR company. Ford recognizes that this is the hallmark of Volvo engineering and that this is the main reason why Ford acquired Volvo, not so they could re- badge Ford products and sell them as Volvo's. They bought expertise in safety engineering and, of all of the PAG GROUP brands, Volvo continues to enjoy the most autonomy of them all.

So David, let's "do lunch" (my treat) but, you realize that you'll have to ride in my V70 ! (let me know when you'll be in Dearborn and I will see to it that we break bread together. (perhaps we both will dine on olive branches!) lol
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2002 V70. Silver metallic. stock.w/tinted windows

This is possibly quite risky, maybe more for Ford than Volvo. There can be only so many cars for the masses, and as good as they are none of the following cars for the masses inspire the kind of awe you want when you drop the name 'Volvo:' Taurus, Accord, Camry, Altima. After all, there's only so much mass out there. What I'd want as a marketing/brand executive would be balance within a healthy niche where you can provide value at a fair and profitable price. But you can't maintain this pricing strategy if you want to get the masses to buy. More importantly, if you build it (and style it) for the masses, then you've chased away precisely the buyer I think you'd really want: they family that can drop $40K+ on a family car and wants something that makes more of an image statement than a car for the masses. (Otherwise he'd have bought an Accord sedan or a Taurus wagon and saved $15K or more! Taurus wagon is very nice-looking by the way.)

Audi is kind of a reverse twist: a collapsed amalgam of four auto makers (hence the four rings in their logo, the name 'Audi' is a nickname for the original unified corporation). They make pretty good cars...self consciously clean (almost sterile) design, lots of innovation, but very complex, and very expensive. They have the value product - the B5 (Passat).

Anyway, if I can do lunch on the expense account, then it's on...my employer! Can't say when I'll be in Dearborn next, though.

I'll be away till Monday, so have a good weekend.
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(98 S70 T5SE misc mods, mostly lighting) (92 940GLE)

You're something else David ! You just take things from these posts and turn it all around to suit your own agenda ! oh well (((sigh)))

Ford has no intentions of diluting the Volvo brand down to the level of the Taurus , Camry etc. however they are going to attempt to target younger people with models that are more affordable. this is in hopes that as these younger people's income rises throughtout their lifespan that they would continue to move up in the Volvo model line to the more expensive models.
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2002 V70. Silver metallic. stock.w/tinted windows

You mean (gulp) like GM in days of yore? (Talk about brand disasters...look what happened to that scheme in the 70's and 80's when GM grew complacent with their enormous market share.)

I have no agenda other than good brand management. Good thing for the two of us that each of believes he's got a great car.

Did you see the article at autospies regarding BMW's 7-series buybacks? Guess their manage-by-joystick gizmo is too sophisticated for its own good.
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(98 S70 T5SE misc mods, mostly lighting) (92 940GLE)

RWD??? Volvo will not sell well in RWD. If it were a TRUE luxury coupe and had the yuppie preference that is shown to BMW and Mercedes (just to have that name parked on the driveway) then it could. Volvo's place is in the NEAR luxury market, borderline luxury. RWD only sells in the luxury market or if you have a niche car.

BTW, read around a bit; the S60 has won tremendous accolades regarding its design, something that older Volvos never received.


Yannis
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2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17" 'Tethys' alloys

A few accolades, true - the Italian press in particular - but most as you know are somewhere between puzzled and bemused. We've seen it before, in it's big brother, the S80. So nothing groundbreaking about the S60's style, unless scaling down a bigger car is groundbreaking.

Hey some people like it. Some don't. If they were going to redesign, I'd like to have seen something with original inspiration...and a little bit of lineage.

RWD doesn't mean luxury...it means performance, as in handling. And there's a trend back this way: most recently, Nissan 360Z and the soon to arrive RX-8. Of course the US has it's own RWD purebred in the Mustang. I'd love to see (and own) a Volvo RWD niche car of this type.

As to the near luxury thing, a recent press release out of Dearborn announced a strategy of a Mazda-6 based S60 with the Volvo being the luxury trim level. (I thought that would have been Jaguar.) If this actually comes to pass, it will be another large brand shift: a Dearborn-directed car on a Japanese platform with a few Volvo appointments, drivetrain and logo. By then, I'll be driving...a Mustang! Or my project 745T with a T5 bolted to the M46 transmission, and custom HID lighting.
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(98 S70 T5SE misc mods, mostly lighting) (92 940GLE)

Although I understand Italian, I do not have the time to access the Italian Automotive Press; all the nice comments I have read are from the American Pres.

If you look again, the S60 differs from the S80 quite a bit. I insist again, RWD is for luxury cars only unless there a niche model (like the Z, the upcoming RX-8), etc.


Yannis
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2001 V70 T-5M SR, Classic Red/Graphite Lthr., ipd ME7 ECU Upgrade, K&N Air Filter, Cold Weather, Dolby Surr. Sound, Rear Spoiler, 17" 'Tethys' alloys

Better yet, Z60R with RWD and 6 speed shifter.
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(98 S70 T5SE misc mods, mostly lighting) (92 940GLE)